Stock Payload Fraction Challenge: 1.0.5 Edition

[Val]

New entry without Rapier-spikes and including recovery.

GTOW = 320.55 t
Payload = 171.00 t
Payload Fraction = 53.35 %

The slightly improved fraction is due to the removed mass of Tail Cones on the Rapier-spikes.

SSTO C-1 Payday Mk.8a Craft file

I forgot to take screenshots of recovery, so there's only ascent in the album.

Ascent (~13 mins unedited, boring)

Recovery (~9 mins unedited, little exciting at the end)
I overshot KSC a little so jump to 5:45 to get to the non-traditional runway approach.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Val
Forum upgrade formatting fubar

[Red Iron Crown]

Before I go changing rules (again), do we all feel strongly about this? I don't find Rapierspikes all that exploitative, but if most others feel so I'll update it.

[tewpie]

[quote name='Val']New entry without Rapier-spikes and including recovery...[/QUOTE]

Nice, I knew it wasn't a big deal :)

Sneak peek at my entry:

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mY4II1u.png?1[/IMG]

Takes full advantage of the enormous increase in shock cone intake effectiveness, and the new engine mounting plate. Overall fraction should be higher than what's possible in 1.0.4, at least for single stage :wink:.

It has rapierspikes mounted currently but I'll remove them if rules get changed.

I would say keep rapierspikes but don't allow the nosecones to be offset. The simple rule would be, no offsetting of components directly mounted aft of an engine, period. Not allowing offsets to avoid exhaust, except in the case of rapierspikes, is just a weird special exception. Edited November 22, 2015 by tewpie

[Val]

[quote name='Red Iron Crown']Before I go changing rules (again), do we all feel strongly about this? I don't find Rapierspikes all that exploitative, but if most others feel so I'll update it.[/QUOTE]I'm good either way. I only suggested it, because I think it makes the rules simpler, when no offsetting is allowed at all, on rear engine nodes. Like tewpie also suggests.

[Mikki]

I have also an entry for 1.0.5[COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR]

Name of the plane is [B]SWAN 6B[/B]
[SIZE=1](The crafts name is unofficially[FONT=arial narrow][COLOR=#0000ff] "THE TERRIBLE BANANATOAST OVERKILL LADY IN WHITE" [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]:D).

It is here:[COLOR=#ff0000] removed[/COLOR]

Aaand the Imgur Abum:[COLOR=#ff0000] removed[/COLOR]

Craftfile 616.76 kb: [COLOR=#ff0000]removed[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#ffa500][I]This craft depends on Kerbal Joint Reinforcement Mod! [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=#ff0000][I](NOT allowed as stated by RIC, disqualified)[/I][/COLOR]

(CPU melter...:rolleyes:)

Its by far not so good as Vals, but hey... it flys! And lands.

Startweight:

A bit more than 540 tons

Payload:

A bit more than 179 tons

Makes a fraction of about 33%, right? :wink:

A picture from the Album in the thread above:[COLOR=#ff0000] removed[/COLOR] Edited November 25, 2015 by Mikki
added the craftfile:D/added warning:), removed files

[Nefrums]

I tried to make a new entry in 1.0.5 and I can tell you that Mk1 cockpit is out. It now overheats at ~1.3km/s at 20km... ;.;

[Val]

[quote name='Nefrums']I tried to make a new entry in 1.0.5 and I can tell you that Mk1 cockpit is out. It now overheats at ~1.3km/s at 20km... ;.;[/QUOTE]Yeah. That's my experience, too. It can't transfer it's heat away fast enough, even when connected to big heat soaks.

[Red Iron Crown]

I've updated the rules to disallow offsetting of parts attached to the bottom nodes of engines.

Mikki, that looks like a fine entry but it is insufficiently documented for this challenge. Just need a shot documenting its total mass before igniting the engines so I can calculate the payload fraction properly.

[tewpie]

[quote name='Nefrums']I tried to make a new entry in 1.0.5 and I can tell you that Mk1 cockpit is out. It now overheats at ~1.3km/s at 20km... ;.;[/QUOTE]

I found that since 1.0.5 cockpits are especially sensitive to high aoa drag heating. For example at mach 5 25km the mk3 cockpit will explode when aoa is above 3 degrees. You have to change pitch very gradually to avoid this.

[Mikki]

[COLOR=#ff0000][SIZE=3](Disqualified)[/SIZE][/COLOR]

@RIC

uups, sorry:blush:

Its 542.930 tons on the runway

And payload is 179.585 tons (according pic from Album)

Its 30.32%... uuupps:rolleyes:!! Oh no, its 32,98 % right?

Naaahhh... its 33,08%... Sorry, it is early in the morning... yawn

[COLOR=#ff0000](Picture removed)[/COLOR] Edited November 25, 2015 by Mikki
added disqualification, removed files

[Red Iron Crown]

By my math it is 33.08% (179.585/542.93=0.3308). Added to the board. :)

[Red Iron Crown]

I've added Val's updated spike-less entry to the board and removed the old entry (sorry for forgetting to do so earlier). The recovery video has a nice recovery from an overshoot, well done. :)

[Val]

[quote name='Red Iron Crown']I've added Val's updated spike-less entry to the board and removed the old entry (sorry for forgetting to do so earlier).[/QUOTE]Thank you and no worries :D

[quote name='Red Iron Crown']The recovery video has a nice recovery from an overshoot, well done. :)[/QUOTE]Thank you, again. I actually considered going for the Island runway for a few seconds, before deciding on this approach instead.

[Nefrums]

Damit, this is so hard now.. I'm having trouble keeping my ships from blowing up, i'm not even getting close to the speeds Val gets.

[Red Iron Crown]

[quote name='Nefrums']Damit, this is so hard now.. [/QUOTE]
Truly. I've got my first recoverable design that should crack 50% (though not quite match Val's), but it has to walk the thin line between burning up on the way up and not gathering enough speed. Also struggling with stock SAS, I might have to reinstall mechjeb just for SmartASS. Edited November 24, 2015 by Red Iron Crown
Typos :/

[Val]

It's all about selecting the right part(s) to transfer heat away from the nose. At least that's my experience.

[tewpie]

Heating is not applied evenly throughout the craft, the forward most component bears the brunt of it. Using a heatshield as the nose will help a great deal. You can also increase drag on your craft and add engines to compensate, but that costs weight (if you use wings to add drag, that offsets the weight penalty a little).

[g00bd0g]

Testing out the new 1.05 physics. Developed this space plane I call the Space Goose x8. Delivered an orange tank with some docking ports to my space station at 120km orbit. Landed back at KSC. Total vehicle weight was 143.1t at launch, payload was 36.5t for a mass fraction of 25.5%. Lots of room for improvement but not bad for a general purpose delivery vehicle.

[imgur]1sLOK[/imgur]

[Red Iron Crown]

g00bd0g, that looks like a fine spaceplane that is quite practical, but your album does not meet the challenge guidelines. Specifically, the mass of the vessel before launch must be shown, the mass of the payload in orbit must be shown, and the craft cannot dock or other wise interact with any other vessels (though you can do what you like with the payload afterward).

I encourage you to document another flight so I can add your plane to the leaderboard. :)

[Slugy]

[quote name='Val']New entry without Rapier-spikes and including recovery.

GTOW = 320.55 t
Payload = 171.00 t
Payload Fraction = [B]53.35 %

[/B][/QUOTE]

That's an impressive payload for a recoverable!

The ascent video was interesting to watch - lots of engines, very high speed low, and careful heat management looks like a good plan.

I had a quick play with old designs last night: looks like those 1200 C limit plane wings will no longer be very useful (bigger SSTO wings pls Squad).

Are radiators any use in combating the friction heating?

[Nefrums]

[quote name='Mikki']
[COLOR=#ffa500][I]This craft depends on Kerbal Joint Reinforcement Mod![/I][/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]

Is Kerbal Joint Reinforcement allowed?

I would like that, but I assumed that it was not allowed as it changes physics. Edited November 25, 2015 by Nefrums

[Red Iron Crown]

[quote name='Nefrums']Is Kerbal Joint Reinforcement allowed?[/QUOTE]
No, it isn't. And I totally missed that. (Curse you, colored fonts and my poor color vision!)

Mikki, I'm afraid I have to disqualify your entry, still a cool plane, though.

[Nefrums]

[quote name='Red Iron Crown']No, it isn't.[/QUOTE]

awww... no easy mode then I guess.

[Val]

[quote name='Slugy']That's an impressive payload for a recoverable![/QUOTE]Thank you :D

[quote name='Slugy']The ascent video was interesting to watch - lots of engines, very high speed low, and careful heat management looks like a good plan.

I had a quick play with old designs last night: looks like those 1200 C limit plane wings will no longer be very useful (bigger SSTO wings pls Squad).[/QUOTE]I'm not sure I want bigger wings. A single pair of shuttle wings are comfortably enough for crafts up to 100 t take-off weight, and 150 t as long as you don't plan to land with cargo or lots of fuel left. At least for configurations were you have take-off weight at no more than 22 t per RAPIER.

But I would like a set of larger, thicker modular wing panels, so we can build larger wings. It's always bothered me that the shuttle wings don't look so good when combined with other wings or just trying to use multiple pairs.

[quote name='Slugy']Are radiators any use in combating the friction heating?[/QUOTE]I haven't tried. Haven't needed to, with the parts I use.

[Mikki]

[quote name='Red Iron Crown']No, it isn't. And I totally missed that. (Curse you, colored fonts and my poor color vision!)

Mikki, I'm afraid I have to disqualify your entry, still a cool plane, though.[/QUOTE]

No problem, i slapped together a ridicilous overpowered monster... I am still afraid myself!:D

I consider a entry with all stock physics, to be fair!