[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[Tyko]

5 hours ago, RoverDude said:

In the current patch, the minimum habitation to get that immunity has changed, both for pilots and for all other crew.  So you could just crank these up to an insanely high number if you want to disable it ever kicking in.

Is that the "Scout Hab Time = 9180000"?  What does the number represent?

[RoverDude]

Number of seconds (it works out to about 1 kerbal year) of hab has to be present for pilots and scouts to get hab immunity.

[Tyko]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

Number of seconds (it works out to about 1 kerbal year) of hab has to be present for pilots and scouts to get hab immunity.

Oh cool..thanks for clarifying  Love the new simplified Life Support Status screen. it's a lot cleaner with all the minutes/seconds removed

Edited February 7, 2017 by Tyko

[WuphonsReach]

6 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

I don't suppose I could ask for Habitation examples that peeps are using? For Bases, long voyages, etc?  Thank you ..

Well, things are a bit borked right now with regard to the hab-values (possibly the multipliers not working if another vessel is within 150m...), but I did an analysis based on the subway map.

If you look at the subway map on the KSP wiki, there are transit values, plus on the ends there are time periods which represent the average time that you'll have to wait for a return transfer window to open up.  I came up with the following estimates:

Quote

Moho - 100-120 days per transit, average of 135 days to wait for a return window.  Orbit is worth 10.5 points, but a landing is 16.1.  That would get me to 32 total easily in order to have a level 4 kerbal.  I'd only need ~400 days of hab-time and supplies for each kerbal.

Eve / Gilly - 178 days per transit, but 1y 380d for a return window.  Eve orbit is 10.0 pts and a Gilly orbit is 9 pts.  Eve landing is only worth 1.5 more points, while a Gilly landing adds 4.8 points.  So Eve orbit + Gilly landing = 23.8 points.

Duna / Ike - 300 days in transit each way, 2y 34d for a return window (on average).  Duna landing + Ike landing = 23 points.

Dres - About 1.5 years per transit, and 1.25 years for a return window. Gives 13.8 pts for a landing.

Jool - 2.5-3.0 years per transit, transit windows are every 475 days on average.  That's a 7-year mission to and back, not including any stops (which could add another 1-2 years) at moons.  Jool orbit is 9 pts, but each moon is 12 pts (or 18.4 pts for a landing).

Eeloo - 4.5 years per transit, return window about every 1.6 years.  That's at least an 11 year mission.  Gives 23 points for landing.

1 kerbal year = 426 kerbal days (approximately), I suggest rounding everything up by a bit (10-30%) to allow for delays or slower then expected transfers.

[Benno]

21 hours ago, wile1411 said:

Changing just 'trait' isn't enough to fix it. So long as you remember their profession before they were set to permanently tourist - change these three things in your saves persistent.sfs file:

Under the LIFE_SUPPORT_SETTINGS module - find your Kerb and set this value to their profession(Pilot, Scientist, Engineer,  etc...)

Example:
OldTrait = Pilot

Under the ROSTER module - find the same kerbal, change 'type' to Crew and 'trait' to the same profession as you set above

Example:
type = Crew
trait = Pilot

Once you save the changes and reload it should be fine for that Kerbal

Thankyou! Bill and Bob were finally tracked down in Cuba, apparently investigating the effects of martinis and fine cigars on decommissioned missile platforms. They'll be back at work on Monday, assuming their passports are reinstated.

[tsaven]

On 2/6/2017 at 1:03 AM, jd284 said:

I don't see any mods which could interfere with converters.

Maybe you can check the MM cache (GameData/ModuleManager.ConfigCache), open that in a text editor and search for USILS_Greenhouse_Inline, then for ConverterName = Agroponics below, and then the Ratio for Mulch. It should be "Ratio = 0.00120000", which is 4.32/hr.

If it has the right value, I'm at a loss. Then something must be producing excess Mulch on your base...

You could try taking some of your kerbals on EVA at least 150 m away from the base. Then check how many need to be gone to fix the mulch generation...

Not sure what that would prove, but it might give some clues.

Yeah, it's got the correct ratio.  I'm confuzzled.  :\  There a way of tracking down mulch producers?

For this ship I've solved it by tossing on a couple of the tiny greenhouses, that combined with the inline at least allows the ship to keep up with Mulch production.  Still frustrating though, and I imagine without getting a plain ship mod to RD this won't get sorted.

[Kill_off]

Could anyone tell me what "Eva time" is or what happens if it is expired ? can't find anything about it on the wiki or in the forum. 

I got a mission to rescue a guy from the surface of the Mun and after 6h his eva time is expired. I can't get there that fast.

[DStaal]

6 minutes ago, Kill_off said:

Could anyone tell me what "Eva time" is or what happens if it is expired ? can't find anything about it on the wiki or in the forum. 

I got a mission to rescue a guy from the surface of the Mun and after 6h his eva time is expired. I can't get there that fast.

As a quick recommendation: It's generally a good idea *not* to switch to the Kerbal being rescued until you have a rescue craft in place when using USI-LS.  Life support tracking won't kick in until you get within 2000m of the Kerbal (or the vessel they are in) for the first time and they load into physics - so you can take your time getting to them as long as you've never loaded them into physics.

[Kill_off]

3 minutes ago, DStaal said:

As a quick recommendation: It's generally a good idea *not* to switch to the Kerbal being rescued until you have a rescue craft in place when using USI-LS.  Life support tracking won't kick in until you get within 2000m of the Kerbal (or the vessel they are in) for the first time and they load into physics - so you can take your time getting to them as long as you've never loaded them into physics.

I haven't switched to him at all. Like with all Rescue/Recover missions you can only track them but not switch to them before you are close by. The eva time tracking started right after I accepted the mission when I started a rocket. 

So now I'm wondering if it's even worth sending someone to rescue him.

can I still move them when the eva time is expired? couldn't find anything about it

[danielboro]

for a kerbal that was not yet under you ( they load into physics )

you can ignor the timer

i do

[Merkov]

5 minutes ago, Kill_off said:

I haven't switched to him at all. Like with all Rescue/Recover missions you can only track them but not switch to them before you are close by. The eva time tracking started right after I accepted the mission when I started a rocket. 

So now I'm wondering if it's even worth sending someone to rescue him.

can I still move them when the eva time is expired? couldn't find anything about it

The timer that appears from the tracking station view (or any view when the vessel/kerbal in question is not loaded) is just an approximation. USI-LS takes their starting "time" and just starts counting down. As long as you don't initialize that kerbal by entering physics range, no life support calculations will actually happen. The EVA timer can hit expired, but as soon as you enter physics range for the first time USI-LS will re-calculate his time and restart the timer.

This happens to me semi-frequently with kerbals on space stations. Their EC time will often only be a few days long, but the station is powered by a reactor, so they are okay. If I don't visit often enough, the LS screen will show their EC time as "expired", but when I switch to the station, the game does its catch-up calculations, and realizes that everything was fine the whole time. There aren't any negative side-effects.

Think of the LS timers for kerbals outside of physics range as a rough forecast. The longer it has been since you last visited a kerbal, the more out-of-date the information will be.

[spcan]

Hi there

I'm quite new to USI and I tried to install MKS with Life Support. Everything seemed to install correctly, but LS does not work for me. It lets me change the config from the space station screen and it also displays the LS window in the SPH and VAB. But when I launch the vessels the display window is always empty, and kerbals neither die or consume supplies, no matter how much time they are on mission. I have already tried to remove and install again (manually) the mod. Is this a known issue or is it just me?

[MK Ultra]

I am very much in love with the mechanics and modeling added by your mod Roverdude! I am looking for help with modifying the mod files just to change "scavange" to scavenge, and it appears on most command modules or habitats. If anyone knows how I can edit a config file or something to fix this it would be very much appreciated! I love this mod so far, it provides such immersive mechanics, and as someone who has very little experience writing mods it is humbling.

[MK Ultra]

Futhermore, is there any way for me to change the mod files such that logistics isnt magically wireless and requires some form of physical connection be it connecting tubes or KAS? I love the idea of in-situ resource extraction and life support sustainability but the logistics of "beaming" resources from hundreds of meters somewhat defeats the whole purpose of the mod for me. Thanks again for any help/suggestions!

[RoverDude]

Typos are best solved with a pull request or an issue.

The logistics are neither wireless nor magical.  They are an abstraction.  If a Kerbal is starving and there's a box of food landed next to them... they are going to go grab that food.  It's a core part of how the mod works.  If you dislike it, just force yourself to connect everything with pipes that you can roleplay as pneumatic tubes launching water bottles and food containers.

[Mandella]

45 minutes ago, MK Ultra said:

Futhermore, is there any way for me to change the mod files such that logistics isnt magically wireless and requires some form of physical connection be it connecting tubes or KAS? I love the idea of in-situ resource extraction and life support sustainability but the logistics of "beaming" resources from hundreds of meters somewhat defeats the whole purpose of the mod for me. Thanks again for any help/suggestions!

When I began my own base building projects I agreed with you, but soon I discovered that a webwork of interconnected KAS tubes connecting a sprawling base was just too much of a Kraken lure. After one memorable attempt at fueling resulted in a SpaceX-like "anomoly" I saw the wisdom of Roverdude's more abstract approach. I just assume that my bases now have buried pipes and power cables, and some supplies are simply physically transported (which is born out by the fact that piloted rovers extend the supply range tremendously).

By the way, this is in no way throwing shade on KAS (or SpaceX). Both are dealing with a harsh and unforgiving underlying physics code that can sometimes cause unpredictable reactions...

[RoverDude]

3 hours ago, spcan said:

Hi there

I'm quite new to USI and I tried to install MKS with Life Support. Everything seemed to install correctly, but LS does not work for me. It lets me change the config from the space station screen and it also displays the LS window in the SPH and VAB. But when I launch the vessels the display window is always empty, and kerbals neither die or consume supplies, no matter how much time they are on mission. I have already tried to remove and install again (manually) the mod. Is this a known issue or is it just me?

Show us your GameData folder please.

[MK Ultra]

Oh my god.... So I went and just tried to connect several modules on Earth to test the functionality, and after making a handful of KAS pipe connections the Kraken lifted the whole lot of modules into the air before devouring them. Now I understand why the abstract logistics make more sense- otherwise I imagine connecting an entire base would be near impossible! Thanks for your wisdom, it is more immersive to play with the abstract logistics rather than watching your bases get thrown left and right 

[goldenpsp]

On 2/1/2017 at 1:23 PM, Liquid5n0w said:

Question about becoming Tourists in this.  Do the Kerbals who are tourists still get experience from things that happen after they run out of supplies?  for example if I bring kerbals to the SOI of Kerbin and back, but it was piloted by a probe core and none of them had any supplies when they crossed into Kerbol orbit, would they still have the experience +6 when they land at KSC?

It's far cooler on Minmus.  Sadly I love the look of a vastly connected base, but they always end up flung into the area.  Disconnected logistics FTW.

[Terwin]

15 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

It's far cooler on Minmus.  Sadly I love the look of a vastly connected base, but they always end up flung into the area.  Disconnected logistics FTW.

You can always connect a long series of Tundra modules together end-to-end with cradles and tundra modules hanging off the cradles.  No need for flex-tubes and everything is connected.

Ground Construction can also make it much easier to put a sprawling(but fully connected) base together on-site without needing any flexible connections. 

[goldenpsp]

Just now, Terwin said:

You can always connect a long series of Tundra modules together end-to-end with cradles and tundra modules hanging off the cradles.  No need for flex-tubes and everything is connected.

Ground Construction can also make it much easier to put a sprawling(but fully connected) base together on-site without needing any flexible connections. 

Yes but the kraken isn't just spawned by flexible connections.  It can be a result of any large (wide) base with many contact points.  I prefer to not tempt fate in either case and keep my bases as disconnected as possible.

[WuphonsReach]

3 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

Yes but the kraken isn't just spawned by flexible connections.  It can be a result of any large (wide) base with many contact points.  I prefer to not tempt fate in either case and keep my bases as disconnected as possible.

Balance it on a single point of contact using RCS and reaction wheels!

[DStaal]

1 minute ago, WuphonsReach said:

Balance it on a single point of contact using RCS and reaction wheels!

(I've done that with pretty large ships on Minmus...)

[Tynrael]

It seems like if I have Kerbals run out of supplies while in a Command Seat they are technically still on EVA so they can get out of the chair and fly to another vessel. In my case they boarded as tourists and promptly started partaking of the supply on a rescue vessel. After being recovered they were still flagged as tourists and I edited them back to crew members, they did not change back after being resupplied.

[goldenpsp]

10 hours ago, WuphonsReach said:

Balance it on a single point of contact using RCS and reaction wheels!

That's great, I wasn't looking for a fix.  Just pointing out that it isn't just KAS pipes that summon the Kraken.