[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[Domfluff]

Thank you for that, there are some decent ideas there.

I'm not entirely sure that I agree that a rotating hab is essential, nor that it's luxury accommodation for some of the crew - using Seveneves as a recent example, the crew of the expanded ISS in the prologue had to spend certain amounts of time under gravity, and their time would be rotated through the station.

Clearly, out and out recreational parts are clear candidates for hab multipliers, but I think I'm leaning towards the idea that a torus is a good option as well. Would have to be extremely large to offer a large multiplier, but as it stands, you usually need multipliers for manned deep space missions (you can get away without it for Duna). Spamming cupola's certainly does the job, but it just seems really sensible to me for your deep space missions to require artificial gravity (and since tethers aren't really a thing in KSP, that means Von Braun wheels).

Speaking of, eventually I'll finish writing a MM patch for the KIS "fun" parts, applying a multiplier to each. The multipliers are so small that they're not really worth taking (and they don't work from inventory, obviously), but it's a nice way to make basketballs, tacos and beer have a little more in-game meaning.

[Tokamak]

1 minute ago, Domfluff said:

Thank you for that, there are some decent ideas there.

I'm not entirely sure that I agree that a rotating hab is essential, nor that it's luxury accommodation for some of the crew - using Seveneves as a recent example, the crew of the expanded ISS in the prologue had to spend certain amounts of time under gravity, and their time would be rotated through the station.

Clearly, out and out recreational parts are clear candidates for hab multipliers, but I think I'm leaning towards the idea that a torus is a good option as well. Would have to be extremely large to offer a large multiplier, but as it stands, you usually need multipliers for manned deep space missions (you can get away without it for Duna). Spamming cupola's certainly does the job, but it just seems really sensible to me for your deep space missions to require artificial gravity (and since tethers aren't really a thing in KSP, that means Von Braun wheels).

Speaking of, eventually I'll finish writing a MM patch for the KIS "fun" parts, applying a multiplier to each. The multipliers are so small that they're not really worth taking (and they don't work from inventory, obviously), but it's a nice way to make basketballs, tacos and beer have a little more in-game meaning.

For what it's worth, I'm working on rounding up some orphaned parts with permissive licenses to, among other things, make some dedicated recreation parts for USI/MKS, including a couple of hab rings I've found

[Sarxis]

On 7/31/2016 at 11:50 AM, RoverDude said:

Known issue, fixed in the next release

Does anyone know what the effects of it not 'locking' are in-game?  Just curious, but not important.

[RoverDude]

Also be aware that I am wrapping up updated guidelines, plus (as you will see in the next release) some parts can have their roles switches.  For example, the nom-o-matics can act as greenhouses, biological filters, or pretty parks that act as multipliers.  And reconfigured in flight if needed.

[Tokamak]

19 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Also be aware that I am wrapping up updated guidelines, plus (as you will see in the next release) some parts can have their roles switches.  For example, the nom-o-matics can act as greenhouses, biological filters, or pretty parks that act as multipliers.  And reconfigured in flight if needed.

Ooh, excellent! That will be very helpful to me, since I've been working on making some parts meant to work with USI, and was having to just make multiple versions of the whole part.

I assume those guidelines will be in the wiki?

[DStaal]

2 hours ago, Tokamak said:

Ooh, excellent! That will be very helpful to me, since I've been working on making some parts meant to work with USI, and was having to just make multiple versions of the whole part.

I assume those guidelines will be in the wiki?

It's quite possible that it'll get onto the wiki. 

[Sarxis]

I hate to bring up the Replacement Parts and Mainenance thread again, but what exactly does this do in vanilla USI-LS?  Are the replacement parts just a timer? 

 

I tried following the earlier discussion on it but got lost.

 

Also, as a 'very' side note:  I have a 'Kolonization' tab in my VAB tabs, but I don't have MKS installed.  Is there a way to disable it, since it is empty at the moment?  Current USI mods: LS, ART, Sub, Warpdrive. 

 

-edit-  Nevermind about the 'Kolonization' tab - it's not from the USI folder.  But who else would add a 'Kolonization' tab? 

-double edit- OK, It's in the USI-tools folder.  Do we still need the Tools folder?  Not sure where it is in the folder though to disable it.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Sarxis

[DStaal]

2 minutes ago, Sarxis said:

I hate to bring up the Replacement Parts and Mainenance thread again, but what exactly does this do in vanilla USI-LS?  Are the replacement parts just a timer?

In vanilla USI-LS, replacement parts don't do anything, I believe.  Unless, of course, you've changed the settings from the defaults.

I haven't paid close enough attention to see if there's any progressive degradation going on, but essentially yes: They are a timer, and when they hit zero the part breaks and becomes nothing more than a cabin.  (Or dead weight.)  But again, that's only if it's enabled - and vanilla USI-LS doesn't enable it by default.  (They can still come into play on occasion: If you build something using EL, both your original ship and your new ship will need replacement parts, and you may not have enough for both.  If you're planning on doing a lot of building using EL, I suggest you put in a recipe for building replacement parts so you can build new ships with new replacement parts.)

[Sarxis]

3 minutes ago, DStaal said:

In vanilla USI-LS, replacement parts don't do anything, I believe.  Unless, of course, you've changed the settings from the defaults.

I haven't paid close enough attention to see if there's any progressive degradation going on, but essentially yes: They are a timer, and when they hit zero the part breaks and becomes nothing more than a cabin.  (Or dead weight.)  But again, that's only if it's enabled - and vanilla USI-LS doesn't enable it by default.  (They can still come into play on occasion: If you build something using EL, both your original ship and your new ship will need replacement parts, and you may not have enough for both.  If you're planning on doing a lot of building using EL, I suggest you put in a recipe for building replacement parts so you can build new ships with new replacement parts.)

Ahh ok!  Same with 'Perform Maintenance' too then?  Do you happen to know how to enable the Replacement Parts in vanilla LS?  I can dig around the module I suppose, but, I dun really wanna. 

[DStaal]

1 minute ago, Sarxis said:

Ahh ok!  Same with 'Perform Maintenance' too then?  Do you happen to know how to enable the Replacement Parts in vanilla LS?  I can dig around the module I suppose, but, I dun really wanna. 

All you need to do is to set 'ReplacementPartAmount' to something, in either the LS.cfg (and then start a new game) or in the in-game config window.  (Which RoverDude is apparently fixing.  )

UKS sets it to '0.000001'.

[Spodershibe]

For some reason, any container that has water in it bugs my ship out. Is anyone having a problem like this?

[RoverDude]

@Sarxis - via the settings, just set wear to a non-zero value.

 

Also still fiddling with the new balance guidelines and making sure progression makes sense - these are the pre-reqs for the next release (i.e. I am down to just configs)

[Toonu]

Hi, has someone mentioned weird shaking when they open Life Support Status window? Because everytime when I open it not in warp, ship start shaking and I cant warp...when I open it in warp, it works normally until I go from warp. In log (F12) isnt anything unnormal. Any suggestions? Want log file or something? Only thing that helped was closing window and hyperedit myself into new orbit...it stoped the shaking....somehow...

Other bypass I found is to open window only under warp and close before going to real time...so it isn't so annyoing, just asking if there wasn't similar problem.

I have installed just USI mods and kerbalism, because I m developing compatiblity patch to kerbalism making supplies instead of TAC things. Version 1.1.3 64-bit

Thanks for any reply

Ave! Toonu

Edited August 5, 2016 by Toonu

[RoverDude]

I've never seen this issue before.

[Sarxis]

Hey RoverDude, I'm wondering if you could answer a question for me:  I have the PlanetBase mod installed too, and the dev has a custom tab called 'Life Support' in the vab.  I'd really LOVE to have all of the USI LS stuff be able to show up in that tab along with the PB life support stuff as well!  But is moving that stuff something an end-user like me can do?  I've scoured all the files I can and I don't even know how a custom category is added to KSP or how one can move existing parts to a custom tab.

[I'd also love to move all of the PlanetBase stuff to the Kolonization custom tab if that's possible.]

Edited August 5, 2016 by Sarxis

[RoverDude]

Not easily.  USI-LS and Kolonization will have their own tab revamp shortly tho, breaking out the kolony bits by function.

[Boozdeuvash]

Hey there! I've got a little issue, my station is in orbit of minmus with a nomomatic and a nuclear reactor that provides constant power, and also solar panels; whenever im in the space center's tracking station accellerating time, the life support status window shows incorrect values, saying that EC and noms quickly run out while I actually have a positive balance on both. When i switch back to the station, the correct values of supplies and EC are shown again.

 

Is this a known bug or a design choice/limitation? Am i doing anything wrong? It's a little difficult to properly plan trips and stuff without knowing the status of my ships.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Boozdeuvash

[DStaal]

6 hours ago, Boozdeuvash said:

Hey there! I've got a little issue, my station is in orbit of minmus with a nomomatic and a nuclear reactor that provides constant power, and also solar panels; whenever im in the space center's tracking station accellerating time, the life support status window shows incorrect values, saying that EC and noms quickly run out while I actually have a positive balance on both. When i switch back to the station, the correct values of supplies and EC are shown again.

 

Is this a known bug or a design choice/limitation? Am i doing anything wrong? It's a little difficult to properly plan trips and stuff without knowing the status of my ships.

Limitation in KSP.  Supplies and EC are only updated when physics runs on the ship, and physics gets put off unless the ship's currently in focus, to keep the game from keeling over entirely when you have dozens of ships.  Basically, a performance trade-off in the base game.

[tater]

LS includes keeping people (erm, kerbals) healthy, not just "not dead." That's part of what the habitation value is about (in addition to morale/psych issues). It is becoming clear that artificial gravity is not so much a quality of life issue as a significant health requirement. How that maps to simplified LS is complex. Strikes me that it's a habitation issue for this mod (nice to have that functionality), and that artificial gravity would be a substantial hab multiplier. Two equal volumes, one spun for gravity should have different habitation times. I don't know how landed bases would deal with this unless landed status could be checked, and a habitation multiplier added just for that.

Heck, the ability to use a toilet that just works without it taking a long time (having a real "down" vs suction is a huge thing) is a huge quality of life improvement.

I'm also specifically looking at SSTU here. 

[blu3wolf]

You know, internet connection (or high bandwidth remotetech connection) could also be a hab multiplier, really.

[Boozdeuvash]

16 hours ago, DStaal said:

Limitation in KSP.  Supplies and EC are only updated when physics runs on the ship, and physics gets put off unless the ship's currently in focus, to keep the game from keeling over entirely when you have dozens of ships.  Basically, a performance trade-off in the base game.

Ok thanks, that makes sense i guess.

[blub01]

is there an option to turn off habitation? I'm currently playing with the kerbal kommander mod, and there isn't really the option to land and recover your kerbals to reset the timer in there, but I'd like to have life support.

[DStaal]

6 minutes ago, blub01 said:

is there an option to turn off habitation? I'm currently playing with the kerbal kommander mod, and there isn't really the option to land and recover your kerbals to reset the timer in there, but I'd like to have life support.

There is an option to make the habitation have no effect - look back a couple of pages, it's been discussed multiple times.  The timer will still exist, but for all practical purposes it'll be off.

[Sarxis]

On 8/5/2016 at 6:08 PM, RoverDude said:

Not easily.  USI-LS and Kolonization will have their own tab revamp shortly tho, breaking out the kolony bits by function.

Got an answer back from Nil - said that he is looking for 'KKAOSS_LS' in the part names to put them into the Life Support category.  So I amended the 1.25m Fertilizer tank name with it and it seemed to be working fine in my test, and the part showed up in the custom category!

Will give amending all of the USILS part names with it and giving it a try

[Merkov]

2 minutes ago, Sarxis said:

Got an answer back from Nil - said that he is looking for 'KKAOSS_LS' in the part names to put them into the Life Support category.  So I amended the 1.25m Fertilizer tank name with it and it seemed to be working fine in my test, and the part showed up in the custom category!

Will give amending all of the USILS part names with it and giving it a try

Just be careful doing that, since any other configs or patches that are referencing USI-LS parts by name won't be able to find them if you have changed their names.