One way stock 1.0 heat shielding is a bit unfair versus old DRE mod's heat sheilding.

[tater]

I'm thinking the new reentry is SORT OF right, but the effects are not properly modeled. If they are simply doing a ray-tracing for what gets heated, THAT is the problem, so they either need to have the capsules face into the velocity vector, or fix the way things interact with atmosphere:

http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/200444/files/thesis_ermina.pdf

[Alias72]

If you are concerned about your crafts balance you can open the heat-shield configs in the parts folder and comment out the part that says physicssignificance = 1. This will cause the heatshield to affect the CoM

[Franklin]

While I agree there's plenty of tweaking Squad has on its plate now that 1.0's released, you guys all saying, "My approaches aren't working, something must be broken. I'm real familiar with NEAR/FAR/whatever, so I'd know," is just hilarious.

Like, spend more than 24 hours with the update and learn how it handles before you cry broken.

[Nexustrimean]

RoverDude just confirmed in DasValdez's Stream that massless Heat Shields is a bug, and has been fixed for next release.

[malkuth]

Not had any issues yet with this. But I tend to keep SAS on and guide it down.

Entering with anything under the capsule though.. flips over and death. Which I guess is the way it should be. Does slow down the early stacked Boosters into space without Decouplers.

[tater]

While I agree there's plenty of tweaking Squad has on its plate now that 1.0's released, you guys all saying, "My approaches aren't working, something must be broken. I'm real familiar with NEAR/FAR/whatever, so I'd know," is just hilarious.

Like, spend more than 24 hours with the update and learn how it handles before you cry broken.

A mk1 pod with nothing but a chute will not reenter (and survive) without constant SAS input. This means a simple, Mercury style flight with a single crew report could possibly lack EC to pop the chute even should to manage to keep the craft centered. Or any non-pilot astronaut cannot ever reenter (say mk1 pods as escape/return pods for a station) since they cannot use SAS. Note that without the heat shield, the mk1 pod (shape of the bottom is the same, BTW) flies as one would expect (blunt side facing prograde).

Look at the graphic above. It is actually close to current KSP pod attitude---but the heating is a simple ray-trace I think, and you can see how the lower side would intersect the nose in that case (blowing the chute or pod itself).

[ola]

While I agree there's plenty of tweaking Squad has on its plate now that 1.0's released, you guys all saying, "My approaches aren't working, something must be broken. I'm real familiar with NEAR/FAR/whatever, so I'd know," is just hilarious.

Like, spend more than 24 hours with the update and learn how it handles before you cry broken.

Or we can wait until the developers and/or the community fixes a rather obvious bug. Your choice.

[Landge]

That capsule flip flopping to nose first has been aggravating. I surprised myself deploying the parachute in the upper atmosphere during reentry stops that.

I would have thought the chute would burn up. Thanks to Jebediah's "Scorch Guard" in aerosol spray, the chute survived as did the capsule and it's pilot.

[GeneralHavan]

I had to login and say thanks for that fix. I was doing Gemini and Mercury styled flights all day and was frustrated by the constant babying of my re-entries. Thanks, this really helps a lot!

[Dunbaratu]

Now that the official word is that Squad has accepted that it is in fact wrong and a bug that massless heat shields act like "wind anchors" and try to rotate you around nose first, and that they plan to make heat shields actually have proper mass, I feel better about applying the modulemanager fix for now.

[Minarkhaios]

A small suggestion to this flipping problem. This capsule can re-enter without any manual guidance.

An the concept can be improved with a longer dart.

[FlowerChild]

Like, spend more than 24 hours with the update and learn how it handles before you cry broken.

...

RoverDude just confirmed in DasValdez's Stream that massless Heat Shields is a bug, and has been fixed for next release.

I just have to utter a brief chuckle about that one message immediately following the other there

Bugs do exist. No matter how much we love the game, denying them because we all wanted the release to be perfect doesn't help anyone, Squad included.

[r4pt0r]

RoverDude just confirmed in DasValdez's Stream that massless Heat Shields is a bug, and has been fixed for next release.

any word on if this 'next release' will be soon, or a far off normal sort of update?

[Jon144]

Yeah this is such a strange phoneomenon. The new aerodynamics are supposed to be more realistic and shaped based.

If this is the case why are aerodynamically stable capsules and the like so unstable? I lost poor valentina as well. This is not the only problem I have already found.

See what version 1 did to stock bearings: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/116938-Cannot-use-landing-gears-as-bearings-in-KSP-1-0

The reason the testers never caught this stuff is because squad went instantly from beta to version 1 and adding in and changing untested stuff. I dont even understand the purpose of their beta if they were going to add in more untested stuff anyways. I thought a beta version was to contain just about all features and iron out the bugs.

[Franklin]

...

I just have to utter a brief chuckle about that one message immediately following the other there

Bugs do exist. No matter how much we love the game, denying them because we all wanted the release to be perfect doesn't help anyone, Squad included.

I wasn't even suggesting bugs don't exist, or that this wasn't a bug. Just that, less than 24 hours into an update like, let's cool the, "This update is a huge let down, everything's effed up," jets a bit. Give it a bit, chill.

[Dunbaratu]

A small suggestion to this flipping problem. This capsule can re-enter without any manual guidance.

An the concept can be improved with a longer dart.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/535143770352298825/8B8C09CAFFE22E1D6221CDB1AA777567141FED87/

Yes I thought of that fix, but I'm playing career mode. You get access to the (broken) heat shielding way before you get airbrakes. It's unreasonable to expect that a user would think that heatshields are unusable when first unlocked because you need to wait until you unlock airbrakes first.

- - - Updated - - -

I wasn't even suggesting bugs don't exist, or that this wasn't a bug. Just that, less than 24 hours into an update like, let's cool the, "This update is a huge let down, everything's effed up," jets a bit. Give it a bit, chill.

Incorrect. What you did was claim the correct response was to consider the behavior correct and learn to play the game that way. You are now pretending that that means the same thing as calmly waiting a bit to expect a fix later, which it emphatically does not.

One of the reasons for the complaining was precisely BECAUSE the issue was getting marked as "not a bug" on the forum, which doesn't sound like anyone should expect it to get fixed any time soon. Thankfully saner heads prevailed, and that fact that it is a bug and not proper behavior is accepted by squad. THAT means it's okay to chill and wait a bit. Prior to that, it was not.

I don't mind if the bug takes a while to get fixed, as long as it is *recognized* as a bug to be fixed, as now finally seems to be the case (precisely because users pointed out to squad what the problem was - in other words, they complained) When there's not even any plans to fix it ever, because the buggy behavior is being redefined as "correct", then that's a problem, and its exactly the reason the complaints were being raised here.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Steven Mading

[acerola]

A small suggestion to this flipping problem. This capsule can re-enter without any manual guidance.

An the concept can be improved with a longer dart.

Why not just put a heatshield on the other side? That's what I used to do with BTSM when I had flipping problems.

I tried reentry from 800km with just capsule+heatshield+chute. No flipping. But if I put something under the pod, that's another story...

[tater]

I wasn't even suggesting bugs don't exist, or that this wasn't a bug. Just that, less than 24 hours into an update like, let's cool the, "This update is a huge let down, everything's effed up," jets a bit. Give it a bit, chill.

I don't see that pointing out an obvious flaw---with documentation---is the same as "this is a huge let down…"

[Rufledt]

I did EXACTLY the same thing as the OP. flipped nose first, val burned to a crisp.

I'm not disappointed, though, this game is still amazing.

[FlowerChild]

I wasn't even suggesting bugs don't exist, or that this wasn't a bug. Just that, less than 24 hours into an update like, let's cool the, "This update is a huge let down, everything's effed up," jets a bit. Give it a bit, chill.

Look man, I *correctly* (by Squad's own admission now) identified and investigated the problem, provided a workaround to help people out, and I don't think I excessively complained about it at any point. That's all useful and constructive, and I actually spent a good portion of the day I had set aside to play 1.0 doing so.

Your message seemed to single me out in particular by mentioning the "experience with DR and FAR thing", which I believe I was also the only one that mentioned that. What's the alternative? Pretend it doesn't exist and wait for Squad to figure it out on their own after they've already gone through their official testing process? As I said previously: that doesn't help anyone.

Edited April 28, 2015 by FlowerChild

[Matt516]

Yeah this is such a strange phoneomenon. The new aerodynamics are supposed to be more realistic and shaped based.

Well in this case the aerodynamics model is working just fine. It's the craft that's broken - more specifically the heatshield. The CoM isn't where it should be, so the (realistic) aerodynamics are causing it to flip around. Don't blame the poor aerodynamics for the incredible massless heat shields.

I wasn't even suggesting bugs don't exist, or that this wasn't a bug. Just that, less than 24 hours into an update like, let's cool the, "This update is a huge let down, everything's effed up," jets a bit. Give it a bit, chill.

While there are some people engaging in histrionics, I'd say this thread isn't really participating in that. As FlowerChild pointed out, this particular bug wasn't even recognized as a bug until enough people complained about it. KSP is great, and constructive feedback only makes it better.

[MacroNova]

Hey Matt, shouldn't you be beta testing Long War? :-D

There was definitely a learning curve with the new heat shields and re-entry system, and actually flying a craft safely from orbit to the ground was not as satisfying as I was expecting. Eventually I got good enough at it that it didn't bother me too much, but I really think Squad should rebalance this ASAP. It was much smoother with DRE/FAR.

[ototcon]

I've found the stock heat shields and re-entry to be quite a pain. To try and offset the lack of mass where it should be in the capsule and heat shield I've tried putting one of the small 1.25M fuel tanks for ballast, but this doesn't really work as often as I would like, especially since on occasion the thing right behind the ballast ends up exploding which is pretty counter productive. Even though the weight/balance issues will probably be fixed in a hot-fix; I would still like to see ballast weights as something I put on a vehicle.

[problemecium]

All of you who have been burned by the new re-entry effects have my sympathy (pun happy accident), but for the record:

This survived all the way to landing with all default thermal and physics settings.

[richfiles]

My solution was to use the first available structural thingamajigs to create a semi-hemispherical 5 piece heat shield on the bottom. I attached 8 of the small torque wheels under 8 nose cones, and used the rotate and offset tools to aerodynamically "shape" the top of the heat shield dome. Int he center, I had 3 capsules (2 of the starter capsule, and one inline... since that's all I have unlocked so far, and I wanted a three Kerbal crew), a service module with goo, and other science, and a pair of radial parachutes, and a bunch of batteries, and a materials bay. Topped it with the standard parachute.

That was enough torque to keep it DEAD stable... I had to actually manually adjust it as retrograde sagged more downward as I slowed. It's a horrible solution. I got it into space using only the BACC boosters and the first tier liquid fuel engines and tanks... Ugh... THAT was a monstrosity! I just want to get enough science to get the 90 level unlock to snag solar panels. Then i can do a jet powered rover (got the entry wheels) to spam the KSC for science. At least enough, i hope, to unlock most of the science parts... Though i might aim for larger rockets. This is getting ridiculous, being stuck with only the first tier of liquid parts. Soooo... Painfull...