1.02 Kollier Trophy (reset for the updates)

[MunGazer]

MunGazer,

Try disabling your temperature gauge.

It's got a memory leak and that may be why you're crashing.

Best,

-Slashy

Ok I will definitely try that, thanks.

[Aetharan]

Completely unmodded this time-- no MechJeb, Engineer, or anything. It turned out that with this plane, what I needed wasn't a fly-by-wire backup, but enough experience to know what kind of turn to make. I should have done an inverted Immelmann turn (or whatever the proper name is for a maneuver combining a dive with a 180º turn instead of a climb), but instead pulled a wide, slow bank. It just cost me too much fuel. Oh well, live and learn. Thus, what began as an Ironman attempt is instead submitted as not one, but two Open runs in the same flight.

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[MunGazer]

Ok, well turning off the temperature guages seems to work so far for keeping it from crashing. I'll probably have a submission for you soon . Congrats Aetharan! I'm making some slight changes to my Sojourn, and the next submission of it will be called the Sojourn Prototype 2. It has one primary new feature that distinguishes it from Prototype 1 that helps it in this new drag model. But it's classified for now! Top Secret! Haha. And Jebediah will be at the helm this time. Valentina declined the test flight because there isn't anywhere to put her snacks.

[Aetharan]

Thanks for the encouragement, MunGazer. I decided to give the Skypiercer another attempt... and so, unless I'm called on a technicality due to crummy brakes, I submit an Ironman run for consideration.

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[MunGazer]

I have completed my run and am currently working on the imgur album. Standby for some very cool stuff! MunGazer is happy again, and ok with the new aero.

[zekes]

Well that's frustrating - I did a two-way speedrun, got up to 1230 m/s, and as i descend to land.... game crash. Wow.

I know for a fact this plane can land - can i has Ironman anyway? I'm so upset that it crashed I could do it again but I dont feel that's nescecarry. it's my MiG-31, basically a MiG-25 with more fuel and engines.

[MunGazer]

Hey zeke I'm 99% sure you have to press F10 to disable the temperature guages at the beginning of the flight very first thing to avoid the KSP.exe crash. It worked for me. Those guages have a memory leak, so it chews up your memory until you have none left, then bam. Game over.

[zekes]

Hey zeke I'm 99% sure you have to press F10 to disable the temperature guages at the beginning of the flight very first thing to avoid the KSP.exe crash. It worked for me. Those guages have a memory leak, so it chews up your memory until you have none left, then bam. Game over.

Yeah, i fixed it But I don't want to do the run again....

[MunGazer]

Ok Slashy, I have a submission for you for the Ironman class 1.0.2 Kollier Trophy speed and altitude records.

Lazies and gentlemen... I present to you: Sojourn Prototype 2

In an altitude and airspeed record setting circumnavigation run of Kerbin!

http://imgur.com/a/ltSbO

Airspeed: 1,427 m/s

- This can be verified by "sample shot" 1 through 3, you can see that airspeed either was the same or increased for those three photos, and that the altitude was +/- 5 meters.

Altitude: 27,250 meters

- This can be verified by "sample shot" 7 though 9, again, you can see that airspeed either was the same or increased for those three photos, and that the altitude was +/- 5 meters.

This aircraft meets the requirements of having only stock parts, and also was created with a totally stock client. Also, re-entry heat is at the default 100% for the runs.

Edited May 3, 2015 by MunGazer

[HafCoJoe]

Oooohhh I am SO in for this!

[Aetharan]

Geez, MunGazer. That's an impressive flight. I'm not sure I have any chance at all of beating it-- certainly not with the Skypiercer, even slightly modified. Going to have to hit square one again. Still, I'm learning lessons both from my own trial-and-error and from your beating me. I'll build something capable of competing!

[MunGazer]

I'd like to throw in some of the lessons I've learned in engineering these crafts for the more advanced players that are on the fence about this competition and maybe give them some pointers to get them on the board:

1. Air intakes do seem to be sort of a diminishing return thing. I believe the ratio for the Sojourn Prototypes is 2 to 1; they have 4 intake air and two engines. Thus, you may want to be careful and make sure if you add more intakes than engines that you're getting more bang for your buck. They do create drag.

2. Overheating is aggravated by having parts not lined up with your velocity vector. The "velocity vector", if you don't know, is basically the direction your aircraft is flying relative to the air around you. It can often be different than the orientation of your aircraft with respect to the air around it. So, try to angle long nose cones, engines poking out the back, and other such things to include perhaps parts of the fuselage slightly to match your expected "angle of attack" - which is the difference between your velocity vector and where the center line if your aircraft is pointing. For my Sojourn, it's usually around 5°. I think I read somewhere that in real life, the SR-71 Black Bird has an AoA of around 7.5° way up there at high altitudes. But leave your wings straight! Angling them would defeat the purpose. They generate the needed lift at their natural angle, unless it is a specific design example where there is an exception. And of course, hiding wings too tightly together or behind things may have consequences, I'm not sure, but my guess is you'd want to avoid that.

3. Drag cross section profile as it relates to the velocity vector is very important and so you should try to get as many of the lifting surfaces and other components of your aircraft in line with the velocity vector as much as possible without really screwing up your stability or functionality.

4. Unnecessary components - get rid of them. If there is anything on your aircraft that isn't serving a purpose, or that could accomplish the same mission with less mass or drag, or more lift or thrust, you should look at it with severe scrutiny. That is, if you want every edge you can get. My Sojourn isn't perfect and could probably be improved upon, but it was optimized.

5. As far as piloting your craft, try to learn to use your pitch trim to adjust your nose up or down in relation to the velocity vector. This saved a large amount of fatigue and tenseness in my body when flying circumnavigation, and it also makes it a lot easier to maintain a consistent altitude. You do it by pressing Alt + S to pitch up - keep pressing it for small increments. Alt + W to pitch down. Alt + X to reset your pitch trim - don't forget to do this when you decide to leave your current altitude and decide to descend! It can result in a sudden, unexpected loss of control and it can be dangerous.

- - - Updated - - -

Geez, MunGazer. That's an impressive flight. I'm not sure I have any chance at all of beating it-- certainly not with the Skypiercer, even slightly modified. Going to have to hit square one again. Still, I'm learning lessons both from my own trial-and-error and from your beating me. I'll build something capable of competing!

Lol thanks man. This whole thing is a blast. That first craft you made back in 1.0 was jaw dropping. Making this entry was somewhat easier for me since it was based on my first 1.0 submission - it mainly required angling of the engines and their pre-coolers to avoid overheating for that sustained 1427 m/s flight.

I wish you the best of luck in your engineering endeavors, as well as everyone, and I'd encourage you to focus on a systematic approach to beating my design - really think through what would be better than whoever holds the record with regard to thrust to drag ratio, lift, etc. It's a tricky balance. To be honest, circumnavigating makes it a tad easier for me since I don't have the complicated problem of knowing how far to extend from KSC and what not. However, the design of the craft does need to meet certain standards for circumnavigation capability, namely efficiency.

Another beautiful thing about this competition is that it does require a bit of piloting skill as well as good engineering. Honestly this is a tougher piloting challenge for me than Microsoft Flight Simulator X or X Plane 10.

Edited May 3, 2015 by MunGazer

[MunGazer]

In one of the other threads, someone in 1.0.2 saw my old 1.0 submission and thought I must be using no re-entry heat. I addressed the concern the best I could, and presented a craft file for anyone that wants to use it for any reason.

So, for anyone that questions the validity of my submission or simply wants to experiment with the Sojourn Prototype 2, here is the craft file:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cguzsksfkv10r5f/Sojourn%20Prototype%202.craft?dl=0

[Three1415]

This is my entry for the Kollier Challenge (Open Class) in 1.0.2, with the Cosmic Ray Mk II, a RAPIER-powered, short-range interceptor.

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As you can see, there is some discrepancy between the maximum speed as displayed on the navball and as in the mission report; use whichever you deem fit.

In any event, I broke 1500 m/s, something I have not seen without exploiting the occlusion bug (I am unsure whether or not that has been fixed in 1.0.2), so I am rather pleased with the result.

Also, I would enter again for the altitude competition, but I am uncertain as to how it is intended to work...If zoom climbing is not allowed, is coasting upwards on previously attained speed also banned? That is the primary method for one to gain altitude in any case, so it would be rather odd if it were; I do not really understand what is being asked of us in that field of competition.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Three1415

[MunGazer]

This is my entry for the Kollier Challenge (Open Class) in 1.0.2, with the Cosmic Ray Mk II, a RAPIER-powered, short-range interceptor.

http://imgur.com/a/ZeEXu

As you can see, there is some discrepancy between the maximum speed as displayed on the navball and as in the mission report; use whichever you deem fit.

In any event, I broke 1500 m/s, something I have not seen without exploiting the occlusion bug (I am unsure whether or not that has been fixed in 1.0.2), so I am rather pleased with the result.

Also, I would enter again for the altitude competition, but I am uncertain as to how it is intended to work...If zoom climbing is not allowed, is coasting upwards on previously attained speed also banned? That is the primary method for one to gain altitude in any case, so it would be rather odd if it were; I do not really understand what is being asked of us in that field of competition.

Nice speed mark you set there! And that isn't easy to do in the new 1.0.2 aero.

To try and help you understand/answer the question in your post, I can quote some of the original rules that were set forth, this is from Slashy:

-Record must be recorded in level flight. No zoom climbs or dives to pad your results.

"Level flight" to me means that it has achieved an equillibrium state where the altitude and speed will not degrade over time.

In the screen shot where you're doing 1,500+ m/s, your vertical speed indicator is pointing straight up, and the question is also raised of whether or not the craft can sustain such speed - "equilibrium". However, I'm sure that the craft could be controlled enough for level flight for some duration and still hit that same speed mark. I'm only mentioning all this in the interest of other competitors who may make crafts that adhere to the technicalities of the rules. I probably won't make an open class entry, I did a lot of work for my iron man class one and I'm kinda pooped and stumbling around figuring out what to build next. Nevertheless, it's Slashy's competition and he will dictate. He may also adjust the rules - as he said, he's sort of figuring out this stuff as he goes.

To address your confusion about coasting up for altitude, I'll try to explain. Again, Slashy is the ultimate authority here. I'm just active in this thread so I feel compelled to help.

In real life, altitude records are often about sheer altitude, and not the ability to sustain level flight at that altitude for a respectable duration like it is here in this game challenge. So, in this challenge, if it weren't for the rules and it was just about sheer altitude alone, I could in theory make a single stage to orbit air breathing engine powered projectile that gains insane speed in the atmosphere, and even after the engines have died from lack of oxygen, it could have enough momentum and velocity left to soar off out into space, and who knows how far it could go. That, or it could easily reach the edge of the atmosphere with little effort. There could be several hundred thousand entries that could do that, and it wouldn't seem challenging, thus the term "challenge". I haven't explored the limits of escape velocities established only using air breathing engines, but even if you stayed within Kerbin's sphere of influence, you'd basically be in orbit in the scenario of leaving the atmosphere - and at that point, is it really an altitude achievement? As Slashy said, this competition is about exploring the limits of ksp aerodynamics. That's the best I can offer you to explain it for now, but feel free to ask further questions.

Edited May 3, 2015 by MunGazer

[Three1415]

"Level flight" to me means that it has achieved an equillibrium state where the altitude and speed will not degrade over time.

This is still easily exploited--I know I can make a suborbital hop, then activate engines with an angle of attack of ~70 degrees and stabilize my altitude at about 32km, but I still never could have gotten to that height without zoom climbing; thus, I am confused as to whether or not such strategies are legal.

In the screen shot where you're doing 1,500+ m/s, your vertical speed indicator is pointing straight up, and the question is also raised of whether or not the craft can sustain such speed - "equilibrium".

Yes, but if you look at my prograde marker, you see that my AoA is less than five degrees, and indeed I was attempting to lower the nose as my fuel cut out. The craft gets extremely twitchy at those altitudes and speeds, and I feared overcorrecting would ruin my chances of breaking 1500 m/s; likewise, speed only increases as I nose down further...So whatever. If necessary I can repeat the run while trying to maintain more level flight, but this is difficult when a one-degree AoA will result in a vertical speed in excess of 25 m/s....

[MunGazer]

idk man haha. I'm just gonna take my hands off and leave that one alone, I really don't know those are valid points and good questions. Nevertheless that is a pretty cool little machine. Slashy is quite involved in the deep mathematical and technical aspects of this game and probably frying bigger fish right now but I'm sure he'll weigh in eventually when he has time. I almost wish someone would come kick my *** in the competition just so we'd have another machine to look at Edited May 3, 2015 by MunGazer

[mikecool1000]

High speed Kerbal runs 1.02

http://imgur.com/gallery/8RfF6/new

As you can see, this plane is capable of maintaining a speed of at least 1540 m/s, and possibly up to 1600, I too k many screenshots in a short amount of time to validate my climb/ descent rates and found that some of them may have given an advantage, however, the lowest speed i hit during the run is the screenshot where i am going 1540 m/s.

This craft was inspired by the f22

[MunGazer]

High speed Kerbal runs 1.02

http://imgur.com/gallery/8RfF6/new

http://i.imgur.com/2Mz3pRo.jpg

As you can see, this plane is capable of maintaining a speed of at least 1540 m/s, and possibly up to 1600, I too k many screenshots in a short amount of time to validate my climb/ descent rates and found that some of them may have given an advantage, however, the lowest speed i hit during the run is the screenshot where i am going 1540 m/s.

This craft was inspired by the f22

Nice! Looks legit for a qualified open class speed entry in my opinion! And it does look a lot like the F22.

I like the pre-cooler up front and the way you placed and angled the control surfaces on the wing

[Three1415]

After realizing that my massive intake spam on the previous Cosmic Ray was only hampering my speed, I removed thirteen of them and ended up with this:

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Moral of the story: Never underestimate intake drag.

Also, I managed to level off this time.

[MunGazer]

I mone be me a win a competition. I maed dis:

I mone call it: ULTRACLIPPERHYPERJUMPERHOPPERSCATTERFLYER.

Maximonium speed: Ten thousand fast.

Highest up altimeter-tude: see fo yo self. it iz verah high. I can say it is about 30 klickometers tall in its flight.

Edited May 3, 2015 by MunGazer

[goduranus]

I presume that by "manned" you mean some kind of command pod rather than a command seat inside the cargo bay?

Also the "level flight" criterion is a hard one, because you can sustain stable altitude for a long time but slowly losing speed, and this usually occurs at an altitude 1-2km higher than an altitude where both speed and altitude are stable. This effect occurs at the altitude range where most of the altitude entries will be places, thus confounding the results.

[Wanderfound]

One issue with the altitude records: how to differentiate genuine level flight from a screenshot taken at the apoapsis of a zoom climb? Perhaps two screenshots, ten seconds apart or so?

Edited May 4, 2015 by Wanderfound

[MostExcellent]

My first attempt: The Unladen Swallow

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[goduranus]

Going for altitude, about 29220