WOW! Any vanilla hard difficulty career mode players get to the mun yet?!

[Fearlessjames118]

*Sniff* I'm still trying to get to the Mun and back,I can land there! I just can't come back

[Kerr_]

Thanks for posting that. From reading the craft file, it looks like what you had is very similar to what I had, except that you're using the 90/110 fuel tanks instead of the 45/55 ones and you also have tail fins. I read on another thread that the larger tanks somehow have less drag when stacked up than the smaller ones, so that may have made a significant difference. You also put less fuel in your upper stage and more in your lower than I did, which probably helped as well. Moreover, the tail fins probably helped you to maintain a better profile -- if you think that ship was hard to control you should have seen mine! The thing I didn't mention in my OP was that I was trying to do this as my second mission of the game, so I only had the first two nodes of the tech tree unlocked. No tail fins or bigger tanks for me. Anyway, you have shown that it is doable without upgrading any facilities!

Oh, and as to the Launchpad upgrade being first, I was thinking more that the astronaut facility would be the best one to do first, because then you can do space EVAs over all the different Kerbin biomes to get more science. Either way, the Launchpad would definitely be the next one for me. There's no getting to the Mun with only 18 tons! I guess it's really a matter of what you're trying to do. My goal has basically been to get as far as possible with as few flights as possible.

Yeah I don't think I can get the part limit in with the small tanks. Having the two down-fueled trash cans o boom actually made a bit of a difference too, Without them i would have wasted a lot of fuel trying to accelerate with ~ 1.1 TWR at the very beginning. instead then get me up to 120m/s in the first few seconds and then the regular engine maintains that.

I put the exact amount in the lower stage that I did because of the dry mass on the tanks. Each of those tanks has ~ .125 tons of dry mass, and the engine weighs 1.25 tons. 8 empty tanks = 1 ton. I've found just under the dry mass of the stage engine is where you can justify as additional stage. When weight limited there is a tradeoff between more fuel efficient by more stages, and weight wasted in an additional engine.

[TheMoonRover]

I play on normal difficulty. I've not quite reached a stable orbit yet in 1.0 (My best so far is 70x65 km, so close) but it seems fairly well balanced so far. With 0.90 I had to turn science rewards all the way down to 10% (thanks to a certain strategy) but it seems okay atm. Hard is just too much of a grind for me, unless it's science mode. Despite that, I tend to do a lot of science on Kerbin before trying to reach orbit.

Edited April 30, 2015 by TheMoonRover

[Garius]

The first two unlocked nodes are plenty for orbit. The records and first science contract vomit funds on you. Upgrade Astro Complex and spam Eva reports in orbit. Getting science junior and goo readings in atmo and low space should be enough to get the LV909. A simple two stage rocket with the 909 and a T30 can orbit the mun at 12 tons. EVA spam gets all you need to land on the Mun.

I imagine a Mun landing can be done in 18T, but at this point the launchpad upgrade is easily available. Alternatively the same rocket can be used to grab EVA spam from Minmus and finish much of the 90 science tier.

I have no landed science off of the launchpad (ground science is boring and unnecessary) and landed on the mun on my 9th successful launch (Val was tragically killed in a poorly balanced mun shot that promptly flipped over and crashed into the KSC, a couple of other rockets had to abort and made no progress)

[Kerr_]

Just lost a kerbal while re-entering from a minmus rescue mission. I set PE at 40K and made like 20 passes slowing down... Pod blew up while still behind the 80% heat shields(Stacked, one usually isnt enough), then the pod behind that one survived to land with no shield... ??? Well I didn't lose val so w/e.

[Mister Spock]

I'm playing on the Hard settings, except that I did enable Revert and Quicksaves. Is that lame? I just hate seeing Kerbals die.

I do like the challenge level of funds and science so far. I like that I'm scraping to get by.

[Garius]

Parachutes are OP atm. Set a peri below 24k, deploy chute and heat shields are unnessary.

I've returned from 60Mm apos with 0 peri and survived with just a MK16 chute and capsule.

[Kerr_]

i think revert and quicksaves are lame xd. i frequently quicksave in case of kraken, but ill have to use debug menu to load it

[Garius]

I find alt f4 and reload the game (love the faster launch) is sufficient for krakens (which are much less common now).

Reverting is tempting, but it's too easy to fall into abusing it. My compromise is that I duplicate my career and test allowing reversions in the copy, but the main progress has to be done without the option.

[Beduino]

I'm playing on the Hard settings, except that I did enable Revert and Quicksaves. Is that lame? I just hate seeing Kerbals die.

I do like the challenge level of funds and science so far. I like that I'm scraping to get by.

Totally fine, i used to play without revert and quicksaves using Far and deadly reentry, but now im too afraid of 1.0 krakens so im using it too.

[georgTF]

I'm playing on the Hard settings, except that I did enable Revert and Quicksaves. Is that lame? I just hate seeing Kerbals die.

I do like the challenge level of funds and science so far. I like that I'm scraping to get by.

I don't think it's lame at all. I tried full hard mode but having to safely land every single failed launch became very tedious. Once i was sure the Kerbals were gonna live, waiting to touchdown became so boring. I also went after unmanned probes early only to discover i can't lock SAS, then spent moar science on a SAS module... that also doesn't work without a living pilot. I was starved of science at that point and started a new career.

I chose hard settings except i enabled reverting and quicksave. I've yet to use quicksave. I may never use it, but i do revert rocket launches on occasion (never to save Kerbals from death, i like the having to think about actually bringing them back in one piece). I spent forever trying to reach orbit in finless rockets and lucked into it early with Jeb, but after adding science bits to the rocket i failed a million times. Investing in fins turned out to be a huge success. For some reason (my s****y piloting) i can't reach the poles with a rocket that comfortably reaches orbit.

Long story short, having the luxury of reverting flights is a huge bonus. Though if you use it too often you fail to learn and stick to the lessons learned. Think of every time you revert a flight as a major failure on your part. I like the idea of risking Kerbals and plan to use manned capsules for virtually everything, BUT i need some way of sanely testing certain contraptions.

On the subject of hard settings... anyone got any tips on earnng money? I'm at 140k and have no idea how to raise 450k needed to upgrade the VAB. Contracts don't pay jack and i'm starting to think i may never even launch a flight "just for myself".

I guess i should figure out the cheapest way to shoot tourists into suborbital hops and wait for the occasional 20k+ contract i have a hope of fulfilling. I like having restrictions in place and being forced to figure out a way around them, but i'm wondering about these huge prices and the meagre trickle of science.

I have boosters, the T-30, 909, Mk1 and Mk1 inline pods and FINS of glorious rocket non-cartwheeliness. Starved for science, struggleing to reach past the Kerbin dessert. Do i milk tourism? KSC area science? Try for a Munar pass? All of the above?

Edited April 30, 2015 by georgTF

[Curveball Anders]

My first save in 1.0 was career (default difficulty), expecting that it would be tough.

And it was, it was frustrating, but it was fun and it was all I ever wanted from KSP.

[Dewar]

Exactly, this "grind" that everyone is struggling with is what makes me love the game.

It is rocket science after all!

I would recommend saving as much money as you can for a low munar orbit shot. You can obtain it by burning prograde at mun rise in orbit from kerbin until your apoiapsis reaches the munar orbit. Kan be done within the first few tiers quite easy. Once hug over mun put yourself in a low polar orbit and get all the wonderful science by evaing over all the different biomes. This alone can mass you a good chunk of starting science. Enough science for a minmus landing and do those tourist contracts. They blow up quick to a point that makes them very profitable. My first minmus mun tourist contract got me 400k

[1greywind]

The small docking port is early in tech three and this allows you to do relatively easy Mun landing with 2 launch Kerbin and Mun orbit randevu style mission even with tier I VAB 30 parts limit.

[X-SR71]

On the subject of hard settings... anyone got any tips on earnng money? I'm at 140k and have no idea how to raise 450k needed to upgrade the VAB. Contracts don't pay jack and i'm starting to think i may never even launch a flight "just for myself".

The old 'leave a satellite with a temp scanner on orbit' still applies for fetching quick money on 'bring/transmit science from xxx' contracts. Getting a satellite around kerbin and then the mun should start offering you such contracts. I also exploited quite a lot of 'test part xxx landed on kerbin' contracts very early on. Those pay little but yield 100% profit (just test with 0% throttle and recover).

For very early science, if you can manage to upgrade to do EVAs you can get a quite bunch of science from low orbit when passing over different biomes in a single orbit run.

[Captain H@dock]

I guess i should figure out the cheapest way to shoot tourists into suborbital hops and wait for the occasional 20k+ contract i have a hope of fulfilling.

Three stacked (alternating orientation) mk1 pod with radial chutes, a decoupler, a big white SRB, two radially decoupled RT-10 at the bottom. 8,000 ish on pad, 4,000 ish from recovery? Not really worth it when you get 10,000 from sending one of these tourist up.... But that's unlimited funds if you're willing to lauch 50 of these.

(tune the top SRB thrust obviously). I made it to 500,000 funds before updating anything else than the contract building, and staying full SRB (my srb and radial decouplers where from testing contracts). But then i don't really play normally (also, i'm one of these hard with revert/quicksave guys.).

And I agree that the grind is what will keep new player from being overwhelmed. Learn to build and launch, take baby steps. Is it reasonable for Apollo 11 to be your second of third launch?

Edited April 30, 2015 by Captain H@dock

[Kerr_]

I dont see it as a grind. I try to take the hardest missions available that seem feasible, set primary and secondary goals, then try to fly the mission. I custom build and name each rocket for each mission, and set the flag.. I just looked and i have like 40 rockets that are just under 30 parts LOL

Also, if you are having funding issues, build cheaper rockets or recover more. Most of my missions run < 25% of the reward for the initial launch costs.

[ghpstage]

There's a fair amount of early funds available,

Rescue missions offer 45-60k rewards from LKO.

Science from space around the Mun is worth around 30k

Satellites around Kerbin are worth 60k+

Science data from space around Kerbin gives around 15k

Surveys on Kerbin can give up to 60k and are now much more easily achievable with early aircraft parts!

Ground tests of random parts now seem to give payouts of several thousand funds, and can be done empty and instantly staged to allow maximum recovery.

Mix a few of these together and you can get quite a lot quite quickly.

Tourists, especially the very early ones wanting sub orbital and orbital flights around Kerbin seem to be little more than a trap to me.

And I agree that the grind is what will keep new player from being overwhelmed. Learn to build and launch, take baby steps. Is it reasonable for Apollo 11 to be your second of third launch?

I'm trying to make launch number 4 my Mun landing this time Edited April 30, 2015 by ghpstage

[georgTF]

Thank you very much for the suggestions.

I do not have EVA yet, but will try to get docks for a Mun or Minmus lander. Minmus, if memory serves, is about as easy to reach as the Mun and is easier to for for science. Though not having conics and the 30 part limit might make it out of reach for now.

But nevermind, the Mun is within reach and hopefully a pilot+scientis team can earn a bit of science for upgrades. Should be a cheap rocket too. My bigger headache is the VAB,EVA and conics upgrades as they cost a lot.

The docking port is a great suggestion. If i could find Minmus i'd go there because it's low gravity allows for easy returns... and horrible re-entry angles ^^ Mun will be easier with a docking port. Part of me is overjoyed at being expected to do a return Mun or Minmus mission, with some usefull science, in under 30 parts/18 tons. o.O That's... hardcore.

I will use satellites, thanks for that tip. Don't have any probes or solar panels yet though. Fortunately researching in that direction will also yield the thermometer and pressure sensor. Those unlocks help pay for themselves. And not having EVA sucks. I thought saving up for the VAB would be the smart thing to do, but am now seeing that might be incorrect. EVA reports should also help unlock parts, and at the same time contracts for those parts.

I've got a few contracts for 2 tourists, sub-robital. Very easy to do with the Mk1 inline pod, and the only cost is fuel and some grabage cans thinly disguised as boosters. 14k isn't much but at least it's something. Now if they want a full orbit... let's just say the ticket price better increase to match.

It does seem that i'm not getting any profitable contracts because i haven't unlocked some important techs. Without docks, or EVA, or comfortable Munar passes, most the contracts are for (difficult) athmospheric part tests or lously sub-orbital tourist hops.

I'm going to steer my research towards satellites, docks and rescue missions.

Once again. Thanks a lot.

[Captain H@dock]

To be more accurate, here's my design (no radial decoupler unlike what i said above). I can recover about 50% by landing the three pods on the shore. That should make a two tourist contract between 15,000 and 20,000 net. Not as bad as it seems.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Captain H@dock

[ghpstage]

Landed on the Mun!

Rocket I used was really simple, no additional science equipment nor even landing gear.

It managed to get Bob to the Mun and home (just about).

For obvious reasons I tipped it on landing, but after panicking a little I decided to try a ramped take off using the rim of the crater I was sitting in which surprisingly worked very well on the second attempt (quickload )

The orbit it threw me into wasn't exactly a good one, nor was my escape burn well planned and a second encounter with the Mun threw my orbit off even further making the final burn require every last drop of fuel.

I was surprised by how little tech it actually required to achieve this.

I didn't get much in the way of science, just the EVA from the biome he Bob landed and the recovery science, but I did get a lot of funds. Had contracts for science data from space around both Kerbin and the Mun, one for landing on the Mun, another for science from the Munar surface and one for planting a flag!

And now the next great scripted achievement offered by mission control..... have two ships rendezvous in space.....

I wanted to go to Minmus damn it!

Edited April 30, 2015 by ghpstage

[Gfurst]

Hey guys, I've just made a thread suggesting a overhaul of the career mode we know, check it out here and support if you like: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118076-Career-mode-Overhaul-for-better-progression-wink

[georgTF]

I've found the suggestions helpfull and in case anyone is reading through and struggleing with the same i'd like to report back with a few "findings".

Mastering a simple aircraft 2-seater, preferably with a thermometer can be a huge bonus to science and cash income after the early windfall from establishing orbit peters out. It's quick, easy to fly, typically easy to land though your mileage may vary and you can score some survery contracts that pay pretty well. Typically they involve flying around KSC area and radioing reports. Since the basic jet engine is also a powerplant, a simple aerial will help you nab plenty of science, and you can easily fly over highlands or towards the desert. Best of all, landing back at KSC recovers at 100% so the only cost of the trip is spent fuel. Make sure you pay attention to survey requirements, because some require a high-altitude Turbo-Jet plane.

Another (smaller) benefit of having basic aircraft parts is that you can build a wingless one that acts like an early rover. Load up on Science Jrs. and Goo, slap some thermometers and cruise around KSC collecting science. if you run out of power for radio transmissions, engage the brakes fully and power up the jet engine to recharge. It wont yield too much, but enough to offset the cost of investing in tech.

Tourist contracts turned out to indeed be a bit of a dead end. Sub-orbitals can be done dirt cheap but pay about as much and orbitals plain suck.

Without a solar panel, it's still posible and desirable to have a satellite in orbit. I filled up a service bay with 6 batteries and 1 thermometer, stuck an aerial on the side and attached it all to a stayputnik. It fulfilled 3 "science from Kerbin orbit" contracts so far and still has 620 power left.

A munar pass is very risky to try without solar panels. Battery spam might help. A biger headache for me was the tight restrictions on the size and weight of my contraption. I can get (maybe) 1 Kerbal into the Mun's SOI, but other than a crew report and EVA report, it won't get much science. It will fulfill a Munar Pass contract though.

EVA suits upgrade is totally worth it. Much better than upgrading the VAB first. Don't forget that you don't need to achieve orbit to perform EVAs over Kerbins biomes, you can make a suborbital hop and pass several. I covered grasslands, highlands, shores and water on my way to a polar landing, so that was a very succesfull flight for it's cost.

Finally, considering how diverse the KSC is regarding science farming, i was disappointed to find nothing but grasslands at the island runway.

Finally, finally. Though some have labeled the early science farming programmes a "grind", i have so far enjoyed every attempt. They can be tedious, but they can be fun too. It all depends on how you approach the problem and how you try to solve it. I usually do "a bit reckless" followed by "irresponsible and haphazard" and the results have been fun. And firey. And costly.

[Aragosnat]

Tourists, especially the very early ones wanting sub orbital and orbital flights around Kerbin seem to be little more than a trap to me.

Individually. They most certainly are. I found out the ones that are asking to take up 2 at once per contract pay off. As I can build a 10 k Rocket with probe to guid them up. Since I'm playing at 100% funds I get about 30 k per pair. So at hard with the 60% funds you should be netting 8k profit.

[Gfurst]

Another (smaller) benefit of having basic aircraft parts is that you can build a wingless one that acts like an early rover. Load up on Science Jrs. and Goo, slap some thermometers and cruise around KSC collecting science. if you run out of power for radio transmissions, engage the brakes fully and power up the jet engine to recharge. It wont yield too much, but enough to offset the cost of investing in tech.

LoL, I ended up doing the very same thing, but instead with a liquid fuel engine and tail dragger. It sure was a fun contraption, and it sort of reminded of those rocket vehicles they did to break the sound barrier in deserts.

Did the same with a smaller plane too, but the my contracts were asking to go higher than 16k, but it was too late to realize.

By the way, it seem that with the mobile lab you can pretty much farm science a lot, a bit sad its so far down the tree yet.