[1.12.x] Cryogenic Engines: Liquid Hydrogen and Methane Rockets! (August 13, 2024)

[nerf_hurrdurr]

In the newer releases of Ven's Stock Part Revamp (I've noticed them since 1.9.2, don't know if they predate that), Ven released some softshell tanks. It appears that these new parts are being exempted from the stock tank fuel switch config bundled in CryoEngines.

I'd like to find a way to apply that switch to the tanks to add the option for LF&O/LF/O. I was thinking some sample code I could adapt or write to make a simple MM .cfg patch to add that functionality to these parts. I'm not much of a programmer and what I do know is pretty base, but if someone could point me in the right direction, I'm confident I'd be able to figure out a fix with a little effort.

[Nertea]

43 minutes ago, nerf_hurrdurr said:

In the newer releases of Ven's Stock Part Revamp (I've noticed them since 1.9.2, don't know if they predate that), Ven released some softshell tanks. It appears that these new parts are being exempted from the stock tank fuel switch config bundled in CryoEngines.

I'd like to find a way to apply that switch to the tanks to add the option for LF&O/LF/O. I was thinking some sample code I could adapt or write to make a simple MM .cfg patch to add that functionality to these parts. I'm not much of a programmer and what I do know is pretty base, but if someone could point me in the right direction, I'm confident I'd be able to figure out a fix with a little effort.

Are those tanks LF only? That might be why they're not targeted. 

[nerf_hurrdurr]

13 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Are those tanks LF only? That might be why they're not targeted. 

They are. Is there a way I can easily negate that?

I like that your tanks provide additional benefits by slowing LH boil-off, but I thought having some cheaper, lightweight softshell tanks for deep space missions/fuel stations would be useful. Obviously there are some real-life limitations that don't exist in KSP and I'm not by any means knowledgeable to how fuel is stored in vacuum IRL (I imagine KSP's fuel tanks are very dumbed down), but perhaps what I'm trying to do isn't "in the spirit" of the part's usage?

[Nertea]

5 minutes ago, nerf_hurrdurr said:

They are. Is there a way I can easily negate that?

I like that your tanks provide additional benefits by slowing LH boil-off, but I thought having some cheaper, lightweight softshell tanks for deep space missions/fuel stations would be useful. Obviously there are some real-life limitations that don't exist in KSP and I'm not by any means knowledgeable to how fuel is stored in vacuum IRL (I imagine KSP's fuel tanks are very dumbed down), but perhaps what I'm trying to do isn't "in the spirit" of the part's usage?

The issue with targeting LF-only tanks is that you collaterally target spaceplane tanks, which have different mass/cost/toughness ratios than lifter tanks. I haven't come up with a great solution for this. 

If you want to try to do something, look at CryoTanksFuelTankSwitcher.cfg. It handles all the switching - you could try to copy the general idea and create a proper @PART[*]:HAS[]... expression to only target lifter fuel tanks. 

[Diche Bach]

Any idea what this could be about?

I've got that file installed like this:

C:\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\Mod Downloads\Cryogenic_Engines-0.3.5\Cryogenic_Engines-0.3.5\GameData\CryoTanks\Patches\CryoTanksFuelTankSwitcher.cfg

The nearby directories look like this:

[Nertea]

 

On 7/17/2016 at 10:11 AM, Diche Bach said:

Any idea what this could be about?

I've got that file installed like this:

C:\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\Mod Downloads\Cryogenic_Engines-0.3.5\Cryogenic_Engines-0.3.5\GameData\CryoTanks\Patches\CryoTanksFuelTankSwitcher.cfg

The nearby directories look like this:

That looks very wrong. The mod should go in your GameData folder. Should look like this:

C:\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\CryoTanks\Patches\CryoTanksFuelTankSwitcher.cfg

[Diche Bach]

Thanks Nertea. I shoul've come back and commented out that post. I seem to have everything running well now!

Well, it initializes fine but I have yet to play test it.

[blowfish]

On 7/17/2016 at 10:11 AM, Diche Bach said:

C:\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\Mod Downloads\Cryogenic_Engines-0.3.5\Cryogenic_Engines-0.3.5\GameData\CryoTanks\Patches\CryoTanksFuelTankSwitcher.cfg

Not related to your issue, but it's generally a bad idea to mod your Steam install.  Steam can update KSP automatically even when incompatible mods are installed and break your entire install.  It's best to copy the entire game folder (C:\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program) someplace else and mod there.

[Diche Bach]

23 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Not related to your issue, but it's generally a bad idea to mod your Steam install.  Steam can update KSP automatically even when incompatible mods are installed and break your entire install.  It's best to copy the entire game folder (C:\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program) someplace else and mod there.

Ah, that is a great suggestion. I keep Steam on a very short leash (he only gets access to the Internet on special occasions) but that is a great suggestion anyway. Some games don't seem to like being copy-pasted and run from a second copy, but good to know it is something like best-practice for KSP.

BTW, would love it if either of you gentlefolk would respond to my most recent post over in the Community Tech Tree thread.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Diche Bach

[mixalios]

Just wanted to point out that the largest hydrogen tank, the HI-530, weighs 360 tons (instead of 36 tons like it says in its description), thereby negating its usability entirely for both atomic age and cryogenic engines mods.

 

It's funny because in its description it says "it's actually pretty light for its size" 

[Nertea]

On 7/19/2016 at 7:04 AM, mixalios said:

Just wanted to point out that the largest hydrogen tank, the HI-530, weighs 360 tons (instead of 36 tons like it says in its description), thereby negating its usability entirely for both atomic age and cryogenic engines mods.

 

It's funny because in its description it says "it's actually pretty light for its size" 

I can't repro this, could you provide more information? In LH2O mode, it weighs 326 tons... because it has 280 tons of fuel in it. In LH2 mode it weighs 36 tons with 80 tons of fuel, for a total of 116ish tons.

[RzTen1]

Hi.  I think I may have found a bug in SimpleBoiloff in the CryoTanks part of the mod.  It looks like whenever a tank stops cooling when it's re-enabled (or re-powered) it never stops boiling off.  It persists across scene changes as well.  The GUI shows that the tanks are insulated but there is still a drain shown in the resource panel equal to when the tank was uninsulated.

BoiloffOccuring appears to be getting set when cooling stops and then never getting unset. I poked around the repo to try and pin it down but I can't find the 'BoiloffOccuring' string anywhere.  I'm using 0.3.5.

[RzTen1]

One other thing I noticed.  It looks like SimpleBoiloff should be calculating the amount of fuel and adding that to the EC usage, but that's not what I'm seeing in game:

[Nertea]

On 7/29/2016 at 1:29 AM, RzTen1 said:

Hi.  I think I may have found a bug in SimpleBoiloff in the CryoTanks part of the mod.  It looks like whenever a tank stops cooling when it's re-enabled (or re-powered) it never stops boiling off.  It persists across scene changes as well.  The GUI shows that the tanks are insulated but there is still a drain shown in the resource panel equal to when the tank was uninsulated.

BoiloffOccuring appears to be getting set when cooling stops and then never getting unset. I poked around the repo to try and pin it down but I can't find the 'BoiloffOccuring' string anywhere.  I'm using 0.3.5.

I discovered this one the other day while cannibalizing some code for the other day. I'll put it in the to-fix list. 

On 7/30/2016 at 1:39 PM, RzTen1 said:

One other thing I noticed.  It looks like SimpleBoiloff should be calculating the amount of fuel and adding that to the EC usage, but that's not what I'm seeing in game:

Ec usage is constant no matter what the amount in the tank is, so that's not a problem if I'm understanding you right. 

 

Added as an issue so I remember: https://github.com/ChrisAdderley/CryoTanks/issues/9

Edited August 1, 2016 by Nertea
Added Git issue.

[RzTen1]

15 hours ago, Nertea said:

Ec usage is constant no matter what the amount in the tank is, so that's not a problem if I'm understanding you right.

Shouldn't this code segment cause the EC usage to vary depending on tank volume?
https://github.com/ChrisAdderley/CryoTanks/blob/master/Source/ModuleSimpleBoiloff.cs#L86
coolingCost = fuelAmount/1000.0 * CoolingCost;

I don't see it getting redefined anywhere but I could be reading it wrong.

[Nertea]

20 hours ago, RzTen1 said:

Shouldn't this code segment cause the EC usage to vary depending on tank volume?
https://github.com/ChrisAdderley/CryoTanks/blob/master/Source/ModuleSimpleBoiloff.cs#L86
coolingCost = fuelAmount/1000.0 * CoolingCost;

I don't see it getting redefined anywhere but I could be reading it wrong.

That does seem to reveal a bug - that code is supposed to only run on OnStart to configure the total energy use. However it's supposed to operate on max fuel amount, not fuel amount. Good find. 

[Tyko]

I have a long term mission ship that's experiencing boil-off despite having powered cryo-tanks. Sounds like it's the bug mentioned above. Is there some way I can turn that off at least until you fix the Mod? I'd hate to have my team stranded in deep space.

Thanks

[RzTen1]

8 hours ago, tjt said:

I have a long term mission ship that's experiencing boil-off despite having powered cryo-tanks. Sounds like it's the bug mentioned above. Is there some way I can turn that off at least until you fix the Mod? I'd hate to have my team stranded in deep space.

Thanks

If you don't mind editing your save file, you can change all the occurrences of 'BoiloffOccuring = True' to 'BoiloffOccuring = False' to stop it from happening.

You'll need to do that again if you lose and regain power though.  Make sure you make a copy of the file before changing it.

Edited August 5, 2016 by RzTen1
added making a backup

[Ant432]

So, can someone explain me how to use this mod ? So apparently these engines have amazing ISP but I need giant fuel tanks to make them have as much Delta V as having a Poodle or Terrier engines, and it weighs the rocket down i use Procedural Parts tanks so is there aproblem with that mod ?

[Diche Bach]

On 8/5/2016 at 1:37 PM, Antonio432 said:

So, can someone explain me how to use this mod ? So apparently these engines have amazing ISP but I need giant fuel tanks to make them have as much Delta V as having a Poodle or Terrier engines, and it weighs the rocket down i use Procedural Parts tanks so is there aproblem with that mod ?

Me TOO!

I have it installed, mainly just because anything with the word "cryo" in it sounds cool and Nertea's other stuff is so demonstrably awesome . . . not very far into my career play and only one or two of the engines unlocked but haven't really examined how they are to be used . . .

[blowfish]

On 8/5/2016 at 10:37 AM, Antonio432 said:

So, can someone explain me how to use this mod ? So apparently these engines have amazing ISP but I need giant fuel tanks to make them have as much Delta V as having a Poodle or Terrier engines, and it weighs the rocket down i use Procedural Parts tanks so is there aproblem with that mod ?

Don't focus on the size of the tanks.  Liquid hydrogen isn't nearly as dense as LiquidFuel or Oxidizer.  Focus on total mass, delta-v, and cost.  Maybe there is a problem with the procedural parts patches though ... you could verify by comparing to stock tanks.

[Ant432]

13 hours ago, blowfish said:

Don't focus on the size of the tanks.  Liquid hydrogen isn't nearly as dense as LiquidFuel or Oxidizer.  Focus on total mass, delta-v, and cost.  Maybe there is a problem with the procedural parts patches though ... you could verify by comparing to stock tanks.

It must be because of procedural tanks because I get the same tank mas with hydrogen + oxidizer as with LFO , maybe because it doesn't model the lesser density of liquid hydrogen. So I can't make liquid hydrogen tanks that are big enough without getting 0.17 TWR in space. I'll check out the configs but I don't know what to specifically look for. 

[ruiluth]

I'm just gonna put this here to say thank you for giving us the option to not have mounting rings. A cluster of four of these Tunkuskas is enough to get a full orange tank to my station and the flames look awesome!

[MaxL_1023]

Hello,

I am trying to use the cryogenic tanks for long-duration interplanetary missions. However, I am not getting the boiloff control option for any cryogenic tank, even with hundreds of thousands of EC available. Boiloff happens, but it simply can't be mitigated.

I am using real-fuels  (6.4x scale setup - I needed the engine improvements) - does this conflict with cryo tanks?

[blowfish]

2 hours ago, MaxL_1023 said:

Hello,

I am trying to use the cryogenic tanks for long-duration interplanetary missions. However, I am not getting the boiloff control option for any cryogenic tank, even with hundreds of thousands of EC available. Boiloff happens, but it simply can't be mitigated.

I am using real-fuels  (6.4x scale setup - I needed the engine improvements) - does this conflict with cryo tanks?

With RF installed, RF handles boiloff, not CryoTanks.  I don't think RF supports any sort of active cooling.