-UPDATE- White lightning mk7 - My first and last SSTO for 1.0.2

[Roflcopterkklol]

With the 1.0.2 update to the atmosphere i have had to make some changes to the craft so it can actually reach orbit, and sadly it will only go to LKO now

sorry best i could do (the worst part is it achieved its 1.0 goal of 500km orbits before the patch)....

i will not be making a cargo version of this plane and i have no plans of making any SSTO's in the future after making this and how disappointed i am with it.

White lightning mk7

Description:

Barely capable of a 100km orbit this SSTO is not really good for anything other than crew transports on LKO space stations.

At least it is fairly easy to fly....

Flight instructions:

On launch pitch up to 50 degree until an altitude of 12km, at 12km bring the nose down to a 10 degree pitch and gain speed until 1200m/s then pitch hard until 30 degree and continue accelerating to orbit.

Download link:

http://www./download/w7cbjublgkrxuq4/White+Lightning+mk7.craft

If there is something im doing wrong in this new aero update please do let me know because this has made me quite sad if im honest....

With how much time and effort this craft took to design/build just to get such a pathetic end result i am not really seeing the point anymore..

Edited May 3, 2015 by Roflcopterkklol

[Guest]

Oh dear Kraken, looks amazing.

[Alias72]

So THAT'S how you get the crew cabin into orbit!

[Roflcopterkklol]

Anyone have some ideas on how i could improve the design?

Im wanting 500km LKO in it before making a cargo version

[SHiftER2O]

Anyone have some ideas on how i could improve the design?

Im wanting 500km LKO in it before making a cargo version

Imrpove? The thing's already a masterpiece!

a 500km orbit might require a bigger craft, most probably those mk3-sized crafts.

EDIT : Your White Lightning has the old Mk2 fuselage, containing only 270-330 and 135-225 gallons of fuel.

The updated version contains 360-440 and 360-440 gallons, might want to check it out! Simply swap the mk2 fuselage with the new one and you'll have more fuel

Edited May 1, 2015 by SHiftER2O

[Roflcopterkklol]

Imrpove? The thing's already a masterpiece!

a 500km orbit might require a bigger craft, most probably those mk3-sized crafts.

EDIT : Your White Lightning has the old Mk2 fuselage, containing only 270-330 and 135-225 gallons of fuel.

The updated version contains 360-440 and 360-440 gallons, might want to check it out! Simply swap the mk2 fuselage with the new one and you'll have more fuel

oo neato thanks for that i shall do, i didnt notice they changed them

though its a big job to do that haha a lot of things inside them

[SHiftER2O]

oo neato thanks for that i shall do, i didnt notice they changed them

though its a big job to do that haha a lot of things inside them

Yep, basically you'd re-do the whole thing ._.

[Roflcopterkklol]

Yep, basically you'd re-do the whole thing ._.

haha i know right, knew i should have started from scratch instead of using the mk5 hull to save some time in building

[trash0551]

haha i know right, knew i should have started from scratch instead of using the mk5 hull to save some time in building

The fuselages are the same part, just different resource counts. I'd just edit the craft file and search for "= 270" and change it (both lines) and do the same for the oxidizer just below it. I don't think this is cheating - unless you put more LFO than the stock part has

It adds about 250dV to this craft.

[SHiftER2O]

The fuselages are the same part, just different resource counts. I'd just edit the craft file and search for "= 270" and change it (both lines) and do the same for the oxidizer just below it. I don't think this is cheating - unless you put more LFO than the stock part has

It adds about 250dV to this craft.

*mind blown* That could have been easier xD

[Roflcopterkklol]

Updated for 1.0.2 sorry it sucks so much.

[SHiftER2O]

Updated for 1.0.2 sorry it sucks so much.

What sucks? ._.

[Roflcopterkklol]

What sucks? ._.

Everything.

in 1.0 it reliably did 500km orbits, now it struggles to get into LKO, its made me depressed.

I was having a hard enough time dealing with the huge nerfs from 0.90-1.0 but this is just... idk... i feel like ive been kicked in the teeth and had the space plane hanger ripped out from under me.

And if anyone is wondering, No drag is not the issue, the aerodynamic model of the plane is fine, close to perfect even, the game just sucks now.

So many hours of work for nothing. what useless hunk of junk.

it does 1250m/s with the fairings no worries...

And here is the plane in the same orbit as the OP without the fairings with nearly the exact same fuel left.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Roflcopterkklol

[panzer1b]

Anyone have some ideas on how i could improve the design?

Im wanting 500km LKO in it before making a cargo version

1st of all WAY WAY WAY too many wings.

1.0 lowers the lift requirements to the point that my 10t micro-fighter SSTO can get away with ONLY 2 delta-deluxes near the back and 1 small control surface clipped into the nose. This is essentially LESS then 1.5 lift rating to 10t mass. Basically wings are useless unless you have a very bad TWR (and if that is the case you can pretty much forget going to orbit.

While im not happy with the fact that most of my SSTOs are dead, i have managed to adapt and create a few shorter range SSTOs in stock 1.0.2. For starters, you will want to have far higher TWR then you did before (0.90 days), and teh ONLY viable SSTO engine is the rapier. While you technically can SSTO with a turbojet, you are about as well off with a SSTo rocket at that point, rapiers or nothing for now. The ideal ascent profile will get you to 10km fairly rapidly (45ish degree climb or whatever your craft is capable of), then level of, maximize speed while slowly climbing, and you will want to at a bare minimum be pulling 1500m/s and climbing at around 15 degrees before you kick in rocket mode/nuke/whatever your space engine of choice happens to be.

Also, you nolonger benefit whatsoever from intake spam (a single ram intake per engine is overkill). This is nice as it gets rid of intake spamming needs, and allows me to move the part count insanity from intake stacking to bringing 20 ion engines and like 60 fuel tanks all inside a SINGLE 1.25m service bay

Ive actually pulled off a cheaty SSTO that managed laythe roundtrip! The only reason i cant call it legit is that i pretty much clipped an insane amount of junk into a service bay to pull it off. I had 15 ion engines, 27 xenon fuel tanks, 3 RTGs, 1 octo-2, i believe some RCS thrusters for docking, 3 docking ports, and a crapload (100+) batteries all inside the 1.25m service bay. I pretty much created a sub 15 ton craft capable fo laythe roundtrips by abusing the service bay which allowed me to drag over 5 tons of gear with no drag whatsoever. Defenetely not legit, but then again, it was 100% stock, and didnt use any .cfg edits or obvious cheats. But yeah, even i, someone that uses clipping to no end in order to achieve a specific appearance would consider excessive clipping, especially of engines/fuel tansk to be a cheat.

Edited May 3, 2015 by panzer1b

[Roflcopterkklol]

1st of all WAY WAY WAY too many wings.

1.0 lowers the lift requirements to the point that my 10t micro-fighter SSTO can get away with ONLY 2 delta-deluxes near the back and 1 small control surface clipped into the nose. This is essentially LESS then 1.5 lift rating to 10t mass. Basically wings are useless unless you have a very bad TWR (and if that is the case you can pretty much forget going to orbit.

While im not happy with the fact that most of my SSTOs are dead, i have managed to adapt and create a few shorter range SSTOs in stock 1.0.2. For starters, you will want to have far higher TWR then you did before (0.90 days), and teh ONLY viable SSTO engine is the rapier. While you technically can SSTO with a turbojet, you are about as well off with a SSTo rocket at that point, rapiers or nothing for now. The ideal ascent profile will get you to 10km fairly rapidly (45ish degree climb or whatever your craft is capable of), then level of, maximize speed while slowly climbing, and you will want to at a bare minimum be pulling 1500m/s and climbing at around 15 degrees before you kick in rocket mode/nuke/whatever your space engine of choice happens to be.

Also, you nolonger benefit whatsoever from intake spam (a single ram intake per engine is overkill). This is nice as it gets rid of intake spamming needs, and allows me to move the part count insanity from intake stacking to bringing 20 ion engines and like 60 fuel tanks all inside a SINGLE 1.25m service bay

Ive actually pulled off a cheaty SSTO that managed laythe roundtrip! The only reason i cant call it legit is that i pretty much clipped an insane amount of junk into a service bay to pull it off. I had 15 ion engines, 27 xenon fuel tanks, 3 RTGs, 1 octo-2, i believe some RCS thrusters for docking, 3 docking ports, and a crapload (100+) batteries all inside the 1.25m service bay. I pretty much created a sub 15 ton craft capable fo laythe roundtrips by abusing the service bay which allowed me to drag over 5 tons of gear with no drag whatsoever. Defenetely not legit, but then again, it was 100% stock, and didnt use any .cfg edits or obvious cheats. But yeah, even i, someone that uses clipping to no end in order to achieve a specific appearance would consider excessive clipping, especially of engines/fuel tansk to be a cheat.

I am fairly sure i did all of those things right, The jet engines are only there because it only requires 3 rapiers to achieve orbit making the other 4 rapiers were dead weight after 26km considering they burn more fuel at less than 100% throttle, it only has 1 ram air per engine and i am fairly sure i covered the drag issue as not being a problem at all, honestly this sucks.

The idea of ONLY using rapiers is making me sad, the idea of my craft having to be 2 wings and a fuselage that any tom .... or harry could duplicate by staring at a picture for 5 minutes makes me even sadder.

As far as clipping goes i have always been a huge fan of clipping, that being said i always did it fairly unless i was abusing the kraken.

I think i might be done with KSP...

These new "realistic" aerodynamics are annoying me immensely....

even my Jet ATV no longer works because its downforce providing wings now allow it to fly for some moronic reason...

At least i have my pod racer back.... Wew realistic aero....

[Jakalth]

I can say for sure, going bigger gets even worse. Using MK3 parts, I've been unable to get a craft, big enough to haul any sizable payload, to travel at high enough speeds at altitude to reach orbit with any form of effectiveness. Even with a 2.5 TWR, which gives it enough thrust to top 1000m/s @ 5000m, by the time it reaches 10km, it can't even hold a speed of over 500m/s... Mk3 parts and the current engine scaling are a bit mean. To even attempt high speeds at altitude, your craft can not drop below 500m/s, at altitude, or the engines loose too much thrust due to the same velocity drop. higher speed = more thrust = higher speed. lower speed = less thrust = much lower speed.

Using MK2 parts it should be doable. It'll just be easier to stick with a much more stripped down craft for now. At least until the boundaries of the new aero system are probed. Then making your craft look better should be doable.

I can agree with a lot of what panzer1b has said. It really does not require as much lift to fly a craft in the new aero model. In fact, less wings = less drag and more speed/efficiency at high altitudes. But I'd suggest a little more wing then just a few delta deluxe wings, just for the sake of giving at least some looks to your craft. Also, the downfall of the Turbo ramjet is its thrust drops off at lower speeds and altitudes then the rapier. But, it is doable to get to 30,000m with just the ramjets, if you can keep your speed up high enough. Rapiers on the other hand are far more sensitive to drops in speed. They like to stall out and/or loose all usable thrust if the crafts speed drops, much faster then the ramjets.

[Roflcopterkklol]

I can say for sure, going bigger gets even worse. Using MK3 parts, I've been unable to get a craft, big enough to haul any sizable payload, to travel at high enough speeds at altitude to reach orbit with any form of effectiveness. Even with a 2.5 TWR, which gives it enough thrust to top 1000m/s @ 5000m, by the time it reaches 10km, it can't even hold a speed of over 500m/s... Mk3 parts and the current engine scaling are a bit mean. To even attempt high speeds at altitude, your craft can not drop below 500m/s, at altitude, or the engines loose too much thrust due to the same velocity drop. higher speed = more thrust = higher speed. lower speed = less thrust = much lower speed.

Using MK2 parts it should be doable. It'll just be easier to stick with a much more stripped down craft for now. At least until the boundaries of the new aero system are probed. Then making your craft look better should be doable.

I can agree with a lot of what panzer1b has said. It really does not require as much lift to fly a craft in the new aero model. In fact, less wings = less drag and more speed/efficiency at high altitudes. But I'd suggest a little more wing then just a few delta deluxe wings, just for the sake of giving at least some looks to your craft. Also, the downfall of the Turbo ramjet is its thrust drops off at lower speeds and altitudes then the rapier. But, it is doable to get to 30,000m with just the ramjets, if you can keep your speed up high enough. Rapiers on the other hand are far more sensitive to drops in speed. They like to stall out and/or loose all usable thrust if the crafts speed drops, much faster then the ramjets.

The trick is to make a sausage SSTO which is just boring. no point even sharing craft like this one, people do not even need to download it the design is so basic....Literally took me less time to build than to fly it to orbit.

[SHiftER2O]

The trick is to make a sausage SSTO which is just boring. no point even sharing craft like this one, people do not even need to download it the design is so basic....Literally took me less time to build than to fly it to orbit.

http://i.imgur.com/lokzy0g.jpg

Well, at least it's appetizing....

[Jakalth]

That ssto does look good though. Even with the simple "sausage" design, as you call it.

I'm sure you'll crack the system soon enough and be back to making the complex and unique craft you like to make.