MechJeb: Cheating or not? The definitive thread/poll

[3Dave]

simple. Rockets cannot be controlled manually during launch, and doing so in real life would most likely result in a fireball and dead astronauts. The balance is too fine and the forces too strong to let humans with our several milisecond sense/reaction delay to handle it. Therefore the whole notion of "cheating" by NASA is silly, reguardless of who actually created the guidance computer.

as for mechjeb. some say its cheating, some say its not. I say its a bug patch. The silly game shipped without a flight computer for some reason.

[tater]

I'd prefer a mod that treated the PILOT as the "mechjeb" since our astronauts should be capable of operating alone if we so chose. I haven't used MJ ever, and I prefer driving the spacecraft, but I'd love to be able to have scheduled resupply missions that my cadre of pilots could simply do without me having to (and any failures they have would result in cool rescues).

[Warzouz]

First of all : MechJeb is a very nice piece of software. I can't imagine how hard it can be to design such autopilots. Thanks to the Sarbian (dev) and other for their wonderful work.

Second : it's a versy usefull toolbox where you can use what you want, when you want.

On the subject : What is cheating ? KSP is a game where you give your own objectives. You could also ask if Sandbox is cheating, or if playing on easy is cheating.

Personnaly I use MJ for DV/TWR informations (because it's usefull), for node editor (very very useful if you don't want to loose your mind with the stock control icons), for orbital rendez-vous (because I fail to do the close approach), for takeoff in 0.9 because I was fed up to do it. And for take off in the new aero 1.0 because I'm still struggleing... (but MJ also struggles)

Also recently I starting to use the "Execute node" because its auto-warps. But maybe because I sent a 13 launch mission to Laythe which needed 12 manoeuver each only to get into the correct orbit of laythe (not including the rendez-vous). It waslong enough with MJ. I can't imagine doing that manually (150 nodes + 13 take-off + 13 rendez-vous).

Edited May 4, 2015 by Warzouz

[Legendary Emu]

Tricky. A part of me thinks mechjeb is cheaty because it's the all knowing autopilot that can do everything for you. A part of me thinks not, because every respectable space program in the world has an autopilot that handles launches and reentries and everything. Then there's the other part that says just get kOS.

Yeah, I think mechjeb is kind of cheaty.

[Kerbart]

This will not be the definitive thread/poll about Mechjeb perceived as cheating or not.

At least another 15 will follow. And that's just for this year.

[Tex_NL]

I'd prefer a mod that treated the PILOT as the "mechjeb" since our astronauts should be capable of operating alone if we so chose. I haven't used MJ ever, and I prefer driving the spacecraft, but I'd love to be able to have scheduled resupply missions that my cadre of pilots could simply do without me having to (and any failures they have would result in cool rescues).

That's why I am still hoping for a MechJeb patch that can limit the functionality based on the current pilots skill.

---

This will not be the definitive thread/poll about Mechjeb perceived as cheating or not.

At least another 15 will follow. And that's just for this year.

LOL

I am actually surprised by how civilised the discussion is this time and that the thread hasn't been locked yet.

[SpaceLaunchSystem]

That's why I am still hoping for a MechJeb patch that can limit the functionality based on the current pilots skill.

---

LOL

I am actually surprised by how civilised the discussion is this time and that the thread hasn't been locked yet.

Actually, me too. Godwin's law is fast approaching.

[TheSaint]

This horse is dead. Stop beating it. You monster.

This. Someone needs to start a definitive: "Has the MechJeb is cheating meme been beaten to death?" poll. Again.

Here is my opinion on whether or not MechJeb is cheating: If you are having fun you are playing the game right and you are not cheating. If you are not having fun you are not playing the game right and you are cheating yourself out of having fun. There, is that definitive enough?

[WeirdCulture]

I don't care if you use MJ, but the whole "NASA does it" thing is stupid, NASA can't just download an autopilot off curseforge, they have to program them themselves.

this! I prefer kOS. It is more hand made, like the real "autopilots"

[Rokmonkey]

I don't understand the why. KSP is single player, if you don't install it how can it ruin the game?

I for one use KER, Precise Node, Transfer Planners and other such tools to automatically-manually operate my space program. Where does that fall on this scale?

You can believe that if I had a series of repetitive launches I would install mechjeb and do it that way.

[passinglurker]

Personal opinion

• Its payout is balanced in career.
  
• no one tells me how I should sandbox
  
• Squads autopilot is buggy and broken.
  
• Assents, dockings, and intercepts get tedious when you pursue an orbital assembly or research station with lander based strategy.
  
• Squad will have to implement more "cheaty" autopilot features in order for pilots to compete with probes any way.
  
• I make no claims to be a skilled pilot nor do I view this game in a competitive light at all so the stick jockeys don't have to worry about me trying to show them up with robots
  

I do wish pilot skill points were more a factor than tech level though...

[LORDPrometheus]

My rule is if I haven't launched the rocket before I do it manually afterwards I can use mechjeb. The same goes for lazy interplanetary transfers.

The most useful feature in my mind is the Delta-V and TWR readouts and landing autopilot system

[impyre]

...I believe that if it is to be considered 'cheating', than NASA has been 'cheating' for over 40 years.

BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO SAY I'M BEING BIASED:

I'm in no way trying to be biased in the poll. I'm simply using two common arguments for/against mechjeb, if you thing one is superior to the other, that's a matter of your personal opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I'm not saying.... I'm just sayin'...

The reason people are talking about bias is because it's evident in the way it's worded. When you put the poll options right beside your OP, it's painfully obvious that you feel that "Ruining the spirit of the game" is a far greater offense than "Why shouldn't I have an autopilot?".

Just posting in all bolded super-caps for people not to call you biased doesn't make the question any less a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question.

I personally don't think it's cheating... it's a game, play how you want... the devs included a sandbox mode didn't they? If people calling you biased *really* bothers you *that much*... just change the text on the options. If you can... hey, can we do that after we post a poll? change it later? maybe? -shrugs- I dunno... lol.

EDIT: Dead horses aside... why do we care what others think of how we choose to enjoy our games again?

[panzer1b]

Cheat, heck no.

But MJ isnt a mod i use myself. Its completely pointless fo me, as i always want to launch at least 1-2 craft manually, and if i want to launch more of them ill just Hedit and remove roughly however much fuel the others lost after travel as well via Hedit. If you want to save time, Hedit makes the most sense, and if you want to prove a craft can make it somewhere, manually is what i do.

Then again, i dont mind people using it, heck, mods are all about how you wish to play the game.

[Galileo Kerbonaut]

At first I used the auto pilot a lot and by watching what it did, I learned a great deal. Then I started using it for docking and for some reason it always made a great mess out if it. I was forced to dock myself and it was very hard for me learn... it literally took me days. Feeling the success of manually docking, made me long for more so I started piloting myself and all I used was the read-outs. When I knew how to do things manually I switched back to MJ again for the more boring launches, like flying the same rockets over and over again to assemble a space station.

I still use it to this day. I think everyone should use whatever mod he/she pleases to enjoy the game. Using MechJeb is a personal choice and there are many uses for it other than auto-pilot. And even if people only use the auto-pilot, I couldn't care less. Their game, not mine.

[keeper]

I will continue to use mechjeb, as i think its better and i like it that way. Thanks Mechjeb guys. Taught me how to play - so now i have an idea what im doing without mechjeb - still i use it on a semi basis with constant input

[Space_Kraken]

Ah, the joys of another mechjeb debate. Here is an infographic someone made to highlight the issue.

Infographic. (Some minor salty language)

EDIT: Fixed image

Mod Edit: Funny image, but can't inline stuff here with bad language. Changed to a link.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Red Iron Crown

[almagnus1]

I use mechjeb.... when I'm working on a KSP machinima sideproject because I'm not skilled enough to both steer the craft and control the camera in a way that makes the resulting footage of good enough quality to use in a machinima, as I'm trying to hide the UI as much as possible. This is where other automation tools come into play, as it allows me to focus on shooting footage, rather than trying to control whatever I'm shooting.

For everything else, I crash and burn like the rest of us, without MechJeb, as KER does everything I used to use MechJeb for without the autopilot which is really only useful for launching and automating node execution. The docking AI is just plain dumb, as it's burned more monoprop on a single docking attempt than I would in entire missions using the NavyFish docking port UI (and that's mostly to compensate for not grokking how to docking with just the nav ball and what's on screen). That also includes testing rockets (which has made hard mode somewhat problematic) BEFORE putting tourists into them.

Edited May 4, 2015 by almagnus1

[Astrofox]

Sir, I Use Mechjeb, mostly for reading out info to me while flying, as well as being precise about the numbers. So therefore, MechJeb isn't cheating. It can also help newer players with certain tasks and heck, even NASA uses such a system, which of course, is a pre-programed code that is then put into the craft as soon as it is loaded on the pad, or before they lose connection with the vehicle. Anyway, in some summary, MechJeb may be slightly cheaty at times, but at other times, is a very useful tool if used in a correct manner, i.e. Don't attempt to fly straight into the sun with the system - wait, that's not right at all!

The only thing needed for MechJeb is integration into the probe cores, and not some not-so-aerodynamic casing.

[Voidryder]

Ah, the joys of another mechjeb debate. Here is an infographic someone made to highlight the issue.

http://i.imgur.com/3sbTz8r.png

EDIT: Fixed image

OMG! This is perfect. I have listened to this "debate" every 4 to 6 months for the last three years and I still can't tell why it is even a point of discussion.

[almagnus1]

OMG! This is perfect. I have listened to this "debate" every 4 to 6 months for the last three years and I still can't tell why it is even a point of discussion.

It's because some people think that using a tool makes you a noob, when there's a variety of reasons that range from "i'm just lazy, ok" to "it helps me make machinima"

Then there's a bunch of us that are either amused by said thread, or just don't care.

[regex]

http://i.imgur.com/3sbTz8r.png

That image is completely wrong, it should say "HULLO".

[Lord Aurelius]

That image is completely wrong, it should say "HULLO".

Unless the mushroom cloud is German, in which case it's spelled correctly.

[Nothalogh]

Unless the mushroom cloud is German, in which case it's spelled correctly.

Presumably the rocket was built by Wehrner Von Kerman

[Space_Kraken]

I must admit, that image was not mine. I had seen it a long time ago on a previous argument thread, and it kept a special place in my heart. I would mention the wonderful person who made that image, but alas, I cannot find them. Oh well