Laythe Colony Ship: The Community project!

[Guest]

OP is not online now. Slow it down so he can catch up, eh?

Sure, the OP should just keep in mind a few things:

-The vehicle cargo bays should have fuel and be vtol landers, to bring stuff in and out of the station-spacecraft including mined fuel.

-All modules have to fit inside a 3.75m fairing max. for the Kerbin launch.

-Part count has to be as low as possible or none will be able to actually enjoy it.

[Redshift OTF]

Using 1 large docking port would make it easier for people to add modular parts. If it was too wobbly then perhaps the use of the Quantum Struts mod could be sanctioned?

[Redshift OTF]

Basic Habitation section. Yeah it could look better but it's sturdy and has a low part count.

107 parts. 118.2 tons. Room for 256 Kerbals.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Redshift OTF

[Khobai]

will the cargo pods just open in orbit and deploy payloads? or does each cargo section/module detach from the ship and land on the surface?

the first way is easier but will have a much higher part count since each piece of equipment/vehicle will need its own skycrane/parachutes.

the second way is more of an engineering challenge but I imagine would use significantly less parts.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Khobai

[Redshift OTF]

Even with simplified parts this thing will be over 1000 parts I'm sure.

You could use a giant fairing for the front of the ship with a giant lander inside.

Or I could design something more what the original picture looks like. It would be another 200 parts I suspect.

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will the cargo pods just open in orbit and deploy payloads? or does each cargo section/module detach from the ship and land on the surface?

the first way is easier but will have a much higher part count since each piece of equipment/vehicle will need its own skycrane/parachutes.

the second way is more of an engineering challenge but I imagine would use significantly less parts.

Hmmm, very good question. I depends on whether you consider the ship re-usable or just a bunch of massive components that make a shake and bake colony setup.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Redshift OTF

[sgt_flyer]

@redshift - do you need all these struts ? that looks like a lot

else, we really need to have an idea of the final weight of all modules - that'll allow us to know if the propulsion section will have enough DV for the job (according to the cheat sheet, coming from LKO, we'll need a bit more than 4000 delta-V to reach laythe low orbit if we don't aerobrake. - and vacuum delta-V requirements should still be the same - but the engines vacuum ISP has been nerfed)

the current drive unit i posted an image of, has 5489m/s of delta-V - with no payload. a single 81 ton Kerbodyne tank added in front of it (with no fuel crossfeed) makes the Delta-V drop to 4354m/s. a second kerbodyne (162 tons) makes the delta-V drop to 3645m/s. - using asparagus staging onto the propulsion unit, (dropping the tanks + engines two by two) i get back to 4135 m/s of delta-V - with the 162 tons payload.

adding 6x S3-7200 (the medium Kerbodyne tank) to the engine stack - still in asparagus configuration - allows me to have 4096 m/s of delta-V - with a 243 tons payload (3 kerbodyne)

- more tests :

switching to a single center engine, with the 6x outer pods feeding the center fuel tank, in asparagus staging, with a 1000 ton drive unit (each of the fuel pods has 1 of each fuel tank - 1 Kerbodyne S-3 3600, 1 S-3 7200, 1 S3 14400) allows me to reach 4185m/s of delta-V with a 283.5 ton payload - with a single engine, we have a TWR of 0.16 when all 6 pods are connected - up to a TWR of 0.49 when all 6 pods are dropped.

we'll need to switch to a more efficient propulsion (and Nervas need a cooling system to operate a long time) - or seriously limit the weights on the various components

edit : with the tests i made,some examples : the poodle (the nervas are too heavy, and not enough TWR) - got up to having 4058 m/s of Delta-V, by using 7 poodles (1 on each pod and 1 in the center)

TWR goes from 0.14 (with all 7) to 0.07 - with only the center engine.

with nervas : (not accounting for the part count needed in wings to cool down the nervas) and using rocket fuel only MK-3 parts (7 pods, no jetisson, 2 nervas per pod) : i reach a 810 ton payload with 4340 m/s of delta-V - but it has an abyssmal 0.05 TWR... with 14 nervas !

Edited May 3, 2015 by sgt_flyer

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Basic Habitation section. Yeah it could look better but it's sturdy and has a low part count.

http://i.imgur.com/396XEhW.jpg

107 parts. 118.2 tons. Room for 256 Kerbals.

Say, I have a slightly smaller hab module, let me show it to you:

It has a 192 kerbal capacity and it can be launched in a 3.75 meter fairing in five launches:

With five docking ports, it has minimal wobble:

We can ask DSMP which one to use, I like the scale on this one better.

[EladDv]

will the cargo pods just open in orbit and deploy payloads? or does each cargo section/module detach from the ship and land on the surface?

the first way is easier but will have a much higher part count since each piece of equipment/vehicle will need its own skycrane/parachutes.

the second way is more of an engineering challenge but I imagine would use significantly less parts.

Well my base modules could all be sent back- and i have lifted the living module with an SSTO from kerbin to LKO already. and i have a mining module in there so i would say yes it is reusable (although i will need to lift the rovers back into the docking ports on the modules- but that would be no problem).

Even with simplified parts this thing will be over 1000 parts I'm sure.

You could use a giant fairing for the front of the ship with a giant lander inside.

http://i.imgur.com/WDGuXY7.jpg

Or I could design something more what the original picture looks like. It would be another 200 parts I suspect.

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Hmmm, very good question. I depends on whether you consider the ship re-usable or just a bunch of massive components that make a shake and bake colony setup.

as said above i can reuse them from laythe but other planets with no oxygen are a different story but still feasible.

i like this as this is enough to store all my components as each one the modules fits inside 1 long+1 medium Mk.3 cargo bays.

@redshift - do you need all these struts ? that looks like a lot

else, we really need to have an idea of the final weight of all modules - that'll allow us to know if the propulsion section will have enough DV for the job (according to the cheat sheet, coming from LKO, we'll need a bit more than 4000 delta-V to reach laythe low orbit if we don't aerobrake.)

the current drive unit i posted an image of, has 5489m/s of delta-V - with no payload. a single 81 ton Kerbodyne tank added in front of it (with no fuel crossfeed) makes the Delta-V drop to 4354m/s. a second kerbodyne (162 tons) makes the delta-V drop to 3645m/s. - using asparagus staging onto the propulsion unit, (dropping the tanks + engines two by two) i get back to 4135 m/s of delta-V - with the 162 tons payload.

hmm the base is around 7 parts so i would say 260-300 mT with a Hub of 120 mT plus extras let's say 40 mT (+optional SSTO for base recovery and pack up at 200 mT) i would say from 420-460 (or 620-660) payload.

Say, I have a slightly smaller hab module, let me show it to you:

It has a 192 kerbal capacity and it can be launched in a 3.75 meter fairing in five launches:

http://i.imgur.com/y5ojnSF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mXknmuO.jpg

With five docking ports, it has minimal wobble:

http://i.imgur.com/Fwf9frO.jpg

We can ask DSMP which one to use, I like the scale on this one better.

fairings are not limited by anything. you can build them as long/wide you want. the only reason i presonally prefer the other one it that it has Mk.3 parts which will reduce part count for the base storage. but if you could get the base modules lined up (just pick anyone they are all the same size except the wheels on the base manager)i think your's is just as good

[Redshift OTF]

@redshift - do you need all these struts ? that looks like a lot

else, we really need to have an idea of the final weight of all modules - that'll allow us to know if the propulsion section will have enough DV for the job (according to the cheat sheet, coming from LKO, we'll need a bit more than 4000 delta-V to reach laythe low orbit if we don't aerobrake.)

the current drive unit i posted an image of, has 5489m/s of delta-V - with no payload. a single 81 ton Kerbodyne tank added in front of it (with no fuel crossfeed) makes the Delta-V drop to 4354m/s. a second kerbodyne (162 tons) makes the delta-V drop to 3645m/s. - using asparagus staging onto the propulsion unit, (dropping the tanks + engines two by two) i get back to 4135 m/s of delta-V - with the 162 tons payload.

Heh, there's over 50 struts in that. Those Mk3 modules don't connect with much strength though but I guess you could trim the amount down a bit.

Dry weight of the ship may be in the region of 1000 tons. I've no idea what the weight with fuel will be. Maybe 4-5000 tons? I've seen people launch almost that into orbit so it's do-able.

- - - Updated - - -

If you want an idea of the scale that can be built then have a look at a space cruise liner I built once.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/98105-Space-Cruise-Liner

[Bar27262]

I can help you build it. Easy to do. I have parts that look like the one in your original post. Check WARSAW-ONE of one example.

[Redshift OTF]

Say, I have a slightly smaller hab module, let me show it to you:

It has a 192 kerbal capacity and it can be launched in a 3.75 meter fairing in five launches:

http://i.imgur.com/y5ojnSF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mXknmuO.jpg

With five docking ports, it has minimal wobble:

http://i.imgur.com/Fwf9frO.jpg

We can ask DSMP which one to use, I like the scale on this one better.

Hey that's pretty neat! There's no worries about people building different versions of each others things. The more choice the better. Than can be retro fitted to attach to each other anyway.

[EladDv]

I've estimated 660 mT payload max with current design of your ship , a full base (well just one kit you can scale it to have more) and an SSTO to bring all the parts back up if we want to move

Hey that's pretty neat! There's no worries about people building different versions of each others things. The more choice the better. Than can be retro fitted to attach to each other anyway.

we will make multiple versions! this will be the center of all colonies!

[Bar27262]

I have a plan for the ship. I'll hop on KSP right now and design something.

[Redshift OTF]

I've estimated 660 mT payload max with current design of your ship , a full base (well just one kit you can scale it to have more) and an SSTO to bring all the parts back up if we want to move

we will make multiple versions! this will be the center of all colonies!

Sweet! People can mix and match what they want for their own version of the colony ships!

On another note It usually save a ton of DeltaV aerobraking directly in Laythe's atmosphere as you enter the Jool system. As the current Aero package is constantly changing it might be hard though.

[Othuyeg]

I suggest you have an SSTO system for transferring stuff to and from orbit once you have reached your target. Let me tell you why:

Landing the habitation modules with parachutes, in big chunks, might be the way to go. And I have a suggestion for that aswell. Create a separate module, which has docking capability and a bunch of parachutes. Now you just need to figure out how to get it back to the mothership with an SSTO...

Also... propulsion... KSP-I?

[EladDv]

I suggest you have an SSTO system for transferring stuff to and from orbit once you have reached your target. Let me tell you why:

Landing the habitation modules with parachutes, in big chunks, might be the way to go. And I have a suggestion for that aswell. Create a separate module, which has docking capability and a bunch of parachutes. Now you just need to figure out how to get it back to the mothership with an SSTO...

Also... propulsion... KSP-I?

well my base modules are self contained and have parachutes and docking ports. plus i already have an SSTO from kerbin to LKO to lift them that works in 1.0.2 and for worlds with no oxi we can have a chemical SSTO with the mining module i have in the base pack rune have already done a chemical SSTO so yeah. the worst part now is how do dock the modules back to the SSTO once we want to leave-but that will be solved by a crouching plane i think (oh and add RCS to the base modules or build a tug)

[sgt_flyer]

yeh, don't know if it will be feasible to aerobrake with this monster even with the ship's spine full of fuel, we're going to be limited in delta-V if we are using the Rhino engine (and i doubt we'll be able to store 5000 tons of fuel in the spine)

edit : with the original 6 non detachable stretched engine pods (1000 tons drive unit) , and getting fuel from a spine made of kerbodynes - i needed 7 S-3 14400 tanks (567 tons) to push 324 tons of payload. To simply add 162 tons to that previous value, i need to add 8 kerbodynes S3 - 14400 for the spine's fuel. (and we're with a TWR of 0.45 at this point - with 6 rhinos)

Edited May 3, 2015 by sgt_flyer

[EladDv]

mainsails are a good option. slashy said they are one of the best for interplanetary travel by his measurements

[sgt_flyer]

from my above tests with 6 non detachable engines - swithching from rhinos to mainsails makes me lose 300 m/s of delta-v

[Bar27262]

A return vehicle for the Colony Ship should something go wrong, or a escape craft. What do you think? Beginning is at the bottom. Seats 3 people, just a test right now, Give information and etc, please.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

I have a satellite dish, but I'm away from KSP right now.

[DMSP]

Gone for 8 hours...

And now 46 posts.

Now my most popular thread overnight.

Thanks for the help everyone, I'll now read through everything and make changes!

[Rath]

I like this and I have a mineing truck that you can use. It is made up of a 6kerbal front section and a trailer with a drill and ore tanks. Oh, and there are wheels too.

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Psst... when I upload it I sugest that other vechiles be trailers that are compatable so we only need like 2 of these things.

[sgt_flyer]

Tested the limits of my chaos star rocket - (without changing the launcher) - has i had around 500m/s of delta-V left with a 1000 ton payload in V1.02, with plenty of twr. Turns out i can launch 1500 tons to a 80x80 orbit with it... And stll have 200m/s of delta-V left in the upper stage at the end:p

So, if needed, we still have quite some margins to stretch the propulsion section.

(I'll try to remove a stage or two on the chaos star (keeping the cores arrangements), to have a less powerful launcher still capable of launching delicate oversized payloads in a fairing (the wide upper stage on the chaos star allows to correctly strut any payload )

[SHiftER2O]

A return vehicle for the Colony Ship should something go wrong, or a escape craft. What do you think? Beginning is at the bottom. Seats 3 people, just a test right now, Give information and etc, please.

http://i.imgur.com/oYVlhki.png

http://i.imgur.com/gqgokP5.png

http://i.imgur.com/GicAdgn.png

http://i.imgur.com/JXYMKom.png

http://i.imgur.com/55RMdYv.png

http://i.imgur.com/60x1Jmk.png

http://i.imgur.com/M1UaZnn.png

http://i.imgur.com/TBkVCBv.png

http://i.imgur.com/L4g1O2D.png

You can try adding airbrakes for more drag multipliers, for less heat-y descent

- - - Updated - - -

Turns out i can launch 1500 tons to a 80x80 orbit with it... And stll have 200m/s of delta-V left in the upper stage at the end:p

THAT"S MORE THAN THE CIRA-IV 27!!!! SHOW US AN OVERSIZED PAYLOAD :D