Missions or Milestones? Let’s Expand On The 1.0 Contract System

[herbal space program]

But in such a scenario, how do you decide what to unlock for the player when? For instance, at which tech node do you decide to unlock the Milestone for reaching Duna? If you set this very early, then the whole "unlocking by tech level" makes little sense because most players will have all of them unlocked anyway within the first hours of gameplay. On the other hand, if you set them too late, then you'll have experienced players saying "I can reach Duna long before I ever get the milestone for it! This is nonsense!" And they'd be right.

Additionally, to what tech node do you tie milestones? Why would a player be forced to research a specific tech node just to unlock a milestone? Like, if a player decides he just wants to do everything with spaceplanes, but finds that all of the milestones to reach new planets are tied to rocketry tech nodes? That player is going to be very put off. And again, rightly so.

While it sounds like it could make sense in principle, I fear that this would actually play pretty badly in practical application for anyone except a small number of people who share the exact same playstyle as the person who defined the dependencies of the milestones from tech nodes.

And then, everything breaks down completely when people start using modded tech trees.

So yeah, I see far more problems than advantages with that idea. My suggestion is aimed at enabling maximum flexibility for the largest amount of different playstyles. Player guidance is achieved via the "within our reach" suggested milestones, which in no way need to be followed but allow a new player to know what is expected of them next. Since that system would be using the same routines as those currently deciding whether a new unique contract should generate, that means the suggested milestones will already be defined by the abilities and unlocked parts of the player. I see little need to change or expand on that right now.

I believe that if you really think about it, it would not be so hard to come up with a scheme for deciding when to unlock stuff without restricting anybody's gameplay. The current contracts system already tries to do that, but doesn't quite have it right. To use the example of going to Duna, it is somewhat complex but totally doable to calculate what the maximum deltaV ship you could build is based on what combinations of engines, fuel tanks, pods, and building upgrades you have. When you reach a high enough maximum theoretical deltaV for your lightest command pod to make it to Duna's SOI, that's when the set of milestones unlocks. You are certainly not going to do it with only 30 parts, no batteries, and 18 tons launch weight! As to your example of doing it only with space planes, there's basically no way you could get to that point given the current tech tree and aerodynamics without having the rocket parts to do it as well. The system could always err on the side of generosity. I would also argue that deciding what planet to unlock when is the only even moderately difficult problem in this system, so I suppose you could always have those milestones visible. Other stuff, like mining ore, redirecting asteroids or exploring with rovers, has perfectly straightforward tech requirements. In your OP you actually suggested that the system should somehow decide what is within reach, so you tacitly acknowledge that this is not undoable. At any rate, I think it's less important to restrict what's visible at any given time, which is basically about not making the UI too confusing, than it is to restrict what program areas can be active at any one time, because not doing the latter basically allows the player to completely ignore the whole idea of having to manage contracts at all.

[sherkaner]

Maybe talk to the SETI mod guy about doing something like this as part of SETI-contracts.

[Tw1]

I believe that if you really think about it, it would not be so hard to come up with a scheme for deciding when to unlock stuff without restricting anybody's gameplay. The current contracts system already tries to do that, but doesn't quite have it right.

Yes, but why bother? Give the player the ability to use their own head when choosing these things. No need to baby walk anyone.

If someone decides they want to try fling something at Jool when they only have limited parts, why stop them?

They'll soon learn if they can or can't

[Raptor9]

@Streetwind

Yeah, I like this idea too. Hopefully someone from Squad takes notice.

[BlackHat]

I think I agree with the OP, this is a nice idea. I liked how Squad fixed the starting altitude contracts so you dont miss them if your first rocket goes all the way to space.

Doing the same for the flyby/Orbit/Explore missions to all planets and moons would be great. and having a tabs where you can see these uncompleted/completed milestones would be icing on the cake

[monstah]

OP wasn't kidding about wall of text, but I read it and it was worth it.

Just showing my support by increasing thread post count, hopefully SQUAD will read it; nothing I'd like to add.

[Fox62]

I too support this.

[kurja]

Came to this subforum to start a discussion about a similar mechanic. +1 to the general idea.

Problem with the current system is that the contracts are there only for the player to make money, they don't provide anything else really and Career is still just a sandbox.

[mattinoz]

Came to this subforum to start a discussion about a similar mechanic. +1 to the general idea.

Problem with the current system is that the contracts are there only for the player to make money, they don't provide anything else really and Career is still just a sandbox.

Have to say I agree with this.

Not that we want contracts to be controlling but guiding of how to progress would be good.

Oddly as contract tend to be just about money they tend to be very controlling about how career plays out.

[Kegereneku]

We wouldn't have a problem with guidance if they weren't so damn specific. Impossible test contract or absurd tourist contract are the nightmare that keep me awake at night.

"Test an external seat with a tourist on it, between 2000m and 2500m of altitude, at a speed of 500m/s, on Jool, in a polar orbit. The tourist must take sample of the surface and get back home. Reward : 14,356 funds"

[Alshain]

I would like to add my support to this idea. Very well thought out.

[falloutaddict]

I support this

[dorin6565]

I agree and support this.

I recently started a couple of new games (testing out different mod combinations), and got the explore Mun. Did that one and then got a bunch of put into this orbit or that orbit around the Mun. I had to grind the Mun because I didn't want to miss out on the Minmus contract. Still no Minmus contracts so went to the go to locations on Kerbin. Finally got the explore Minmus contract.

The game before these 2 test games, I got the explore Minmus contract first.

I love the idea of those being always there so, for example, if I wanted to try to do a fast flyby of Moho. I wouldn't be pentalized for taking the chance early.

I have to restrain myself when the first Moho windows open knowing I don't have a contract to visit it and waste potential money in the early game.

[sherkaner]

Great idea.