Cheater Tourists

[LongbowEOD]

So the tourists pay per parameter of their tour package, and then a lump sum for completion that's based on the number of parameters. In the below example, the parameter charge is 8,775, and the completion bonus is 26,325 per parameter (3 x 26,325 = 78,975; 4 x 26,325 = 105,300). So far so good.

The first part that bugs me is they get to cheat on picking which parameters they want to pay for! Virtrude here, for example, wants to orbit around Kerbin, but doesn't want to pay for a suborbital spaceflight on Kerbin. That's a little like me saying I'll pay for the Tokyo bullet train, but I don't want to pay for the flight to Tokyo.

The second problem is that it makes it makes identical flight plans cost different amounts. Compare Lezy and Barsan. Both want a suborbital spaceflight on the Mun, which I'd call the hardest (or maybe "furthest") part of the itinerary. But Lezy omits the orbit around the Mun and so pays less than Barsan. Both of them decline to pay for the orbit around Kerbin that'd be required.

[KatzOhki]

Yeah, that's a point. I've seen a few contracts that want spaceflights to the Mun or even Duna, but the pay is comparatively low. Oh well, guess it could use some tweaking.

[Starwhip]

That's a good point. Perhaps these hidden substeps could be added to the price of the mission?

[SkyRender]

Tourists do need a bit of an overhaul, it's true. I'm sure SQUAD is already considering how to deal with it. My guess (I can't say for sure as I'm not part of the development team!) is that they're going to tie the science multiplier for celestial bodies to the cost of a given destination on the itinerary, and also add a basic trip-logic algorithm that actually looks at the destination(s) the tourist wants to reach and calculates the states they need to go through to get there when pricing out how much their trip will cost. The current system seems to be a roll of all possible destinations, picking 2 to 6 of them out of the hat depending on the contract complexity, meaning at the moment you can theoretically get completely unreasonable requests like a trip to Moho's, Eve's, and Eeloo's surfaces all in one trip. What we'll probably see once those contracts get revised is a system where there are 1 to 3 major destinations, with prices factored based on the destinations you have to visit in order to get to those final destinations. Likely it will be limited to one destination per celestial body, too. (Honestly, it would have to be for sanity check reasons.)

Just my $0.02US on the matter.

[JellyCubes]

In universe explanation:

Barsan is a terrible haggler and that's why you were able to squeeze more funds out of them. Lezy and Virtrude are master hagglers and were able to negotiate a substantially lower price.

[mrclucks]

@Skyrender

You don't need to do their itinerary in one trip. I've taken tourists to land on the moon(orbit and suborbital flight as well) returned to kerbin, and then taken them and another group to land on minmus to return and complete ten tourists itenarary before. Heck I split up itenerarys more times than not since some times its much easier to do two or three mini tours rather than one huge one

[SkyRender]

Here's a few examples of what I've pictured how it might ideally work.

Scenario 1: Orbit of Kerbin

Itinerary 1: Orbit Kerbin

Destination 1: Suborbital flight over Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Destination 2: Orbiting in space just above Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Return flight reward: (7500 + 7500) * 2 = 30000

Scenario 3: Orbit the Mun

Itinerary 1: Orbit the Mun

Destination 1: Suborbital flight over Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Destination 2: Orbiting in space just above Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Destination 3: Orbiting in space high above Kerbin (1.5 * 7500 = 11250)

Destination 4: On an escape trajectory out of the Mun (2 * 7500 = 15000)

Destination 5: Orbiting in space high above the Mun (2 * 7500 = 15000)

Return flight reward: (7500 + 7500 + 11250 + 15000 + 15000) * 2 = 85500

Scenario 3: Duna orbit, Ike flyby

Itinerary 1: Orbit Duna

Destination 1: Suborbital flight over Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Destination 2: Orbiting in space just above Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Destination 3: Orbiting in space high above Kerbin (1.5 * 7500 = 11250)

Destination 4: Orbiting in space high above the sun (2 * 7500 = 15000)

Destination 5: On an escape trajectory out of Duna (5 * 7500 = 37500)

Destination 6: Orbiting in space high above Duna (5 * 7500 = 37500)

Itinerary 2: Flyby of Ike (starting state: orbiting in space high above Duna)

Destination 1: On an escape trajectory out of Ike (5 * 7500 = 37500)

Completion: (7500 + 7500 + 11250 + 15000 + 37500 + 37500 + 37500) * 2 = 461250

Obviously it could use a bit of tweaking, but the basic idea is there. It would result in much more sensible fares as destinations get further afield of Kerbin.

Edited May 15, 2015 by SkyRender

[aleis]

Well technically with enough dV you don't need to orbit Kerbin or the Mun to do the transfer and landing. So it could be a viable tour. of course the pay isn't really worth for a direct accent to mun landing, but hey.

also as tourist gain experience maybe he doesn't want that beginner crap anymore

[Arsonik]

also as tourist gain experience maybe he doesn't want that beginner crap anymore

It doesn't matter much what the tourists want if no agency can afford to host them for pennies and nickles.

[wossname]

Virtrude here, for example, wants to orbit around Kerbin, but doesn't want to pay for a suborbital spaceflight on Kerbin. That's a little like me saying I'll pay for the Tokyo bullet train, but I don't want to pay for the flight to Tokyo.

Technically you do two suborbital flights in an orbital mission - once on the way up, then once going home. She's really cheating you twice!!!

You should shove her out of the airlock at apoapsis to teach her a lesson.

[X-SR71]

Wait till you get some very weird stuff like 'land on minmus, sub-orbital in duna, fly-by ike' for the same tourist..

[KrazyKrl]

I think that the tourism endpoints for the contract should exclude suborbitals on bodies with no atmosphere (including the sun). And anything with a suborbital trajectory should have a "lowest approach" of something proportionally like a 10km flight on kerbin (i.e. 10km on kerbin is X% ASL pressure. Ykm on Duna would be X% duna ASL pressure.)

Just having a suborbital trajectory can easily be achieved while still being safely in vacuum. Reworking them to be "periapsis below Ykm" "low altitude flyby of planetoid Z" would be nifty.

As for the payouts for each; I believe that the contract should only pay for the end-point mission for each separate body. i.e. if you're going for a 9km low pass over the mun, don't include orbit of kerbin in the contract (if launching from kerbin.)

Of course, the payouts for each end point in the contract will reflect the dV cost to get there (plus some "scenery fee" for "dramatic" planets aka a flyby of saturn would be neater than a flyby of venus.)

One thing that would also be neat; is a "tourism / ferry" contract. Which says something like "Pick 3 kerbals up from Duna, land on eeloo and plant a flag; orbit dres, then drop the 3 kerbals off at a craft placed on moho."

[Alshain]

I agree, the contracts that have you tour the Mun then one kerbal in a group of four that want a suborbital flight of Minmus (not orbit, not fly by, just suborbit) are terrible. Waste of a perfectly good contract I'm not going to do because I won't waste my time on a single item that doesn't pay very well.

[Pax Kerbana]

Pax Galactic will not carry cost to provide free trips in these situationsâ€â€but will gladly carry the cost to pick them up again from their free orbit...

[AbacusWizard]

The details of tourism contracts do need some re-thinking, but overall I really like the idea. It would be neat to allow the tourists to get out of the ship under certain circumstances (maybe only if the ship has been stable for at least a minute, or only if landed, or only if tethered if that ever gets implemented), especially if they had some visual signifier like a Hawaiian shirt floral print on their spacesuits or a big camera hung on their necks.

The fares the tourists are offering do seem ludicrously low compared to the cost of the mission, but I find I can use them as a bit of extra profit by taking tourists along on missions I'd be running anyway. What's that, Lygra Kerman? You want to go to Minmus? You're in luck; I have three crew members about to go there in a four-seat spaceship!

[amorymeltzer]

Step 1. Accept all tourism contracts within Kerbin system.

Step 2. Group by destination and fly.

Step 3. Profit via tedium!

[aleis]

Step 1. Accept all tourism contracts within Kerbin system.

Step 2. Group by destination and fly.

Step 3. Profit via tedium!

If that's all you want just deny contacts until you nothing but "landed at Kerbin" or "return science from (I already have a sat there)"

Or why waste the time playing career and just edit save file free money

[Gerandar]

For the tourists that don't pay for the suborbital flight of kerbin i just leave them in LKO. there must be a good 20 of them up there by now maybe soon they will learn to pay the full fee.

[amorymeltzer]

If that's all you want just deny contacts until you nothing but "landed at Kerbin" or "return science from (I already have a sat there)"

Or why waste the time playing career and just edit save file free money

Those are answers to "How can I get money easily" whereas OP is irked by tourists being sneaky. I still say you should do 'em all, but it's not unreasonable to break 'em up.

Anyway, OP, you might also want Tourism Plus contract pack - I haven't tried it but will be soon. Sounds pretty perfect.

[obi_juan]

The number of tourist grow and where they want to go also... So in my game I build a ferry to transport 12 tourist+2 pilots between Kerbin, Mun and Minmus.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

The ascent/descent ship have space for 16 people +3 pilots

Using the ferry ships for rescue and tourist missions I earn between 1 to 2 million every time that a descent ship arrive to Kerbin.

I don't need to make travels to refuel the Kerbin space station, the Ascent/Descent ship have fuel to spare. But every 4-6 Ferry travels to Minmus I need a refuel ship to Minmus Space Station. And every 3 to the Mun...

In time I will extract the fuel from the surface of the satellites, and I will make a bigger ferry ship (I am waiting to unlock the mk3 parts).

Edited May 15, 2015 by obi_juan

[Renegrade]

My guess (I can't say for sure as I'm not part of the development team!) is that they're going to tie the science multiplier for celestial bodies to the cost of a given destination on the itinerary

DANGER, Will Robinson! DANGER!

The science multiplier is a poor choice as a cost multiplier - it doesn't reflect the difficulty/expense of getting to a place very well.

For example, the Mun has a lower multiplier than Minmus, yet any vet player knows that Minmus is a much easier destination ( ~990 to get there, including a small, far-from-kerbin adjustment if it's not at the AN/DN, 150 to enter orbit, 400 to land/takeoff, and ~170 to return for a total of ~1710, vs the Mun at 860+200+1280+270 = 2,610... The surface/orbit multipliers are 5/4 for Minmus and 4/3 for the Mun). Another example is that Eve and Moho orbit multipliers are almost the same (7 vs 8), yet Eve orbit is practically the closest destination, whereas Moho is a nasty little space potato deep in the grav well.

Gonna need a potato peeler for all these angry space potatoes at this rate..

[Fel]

Virtrude here, for example, wants to orbit around Kerbin, but doesn't want to pay for a suborbital spaceflight on Kerbin. That's a little like me saying I'll pay for the Tokyo bullet train, but I don't want to pay for the flight to Tokyo.

I agree... I would leave Virtrude in orbit around Kerbin and "rescue" him when he pays for it.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a few examples of what I've pictured how it might ideally work.

Scenario 1: Orbit of Kerbin

Itinerary 1: Orbit Kerbin

Destination 1: Suborbital flight over Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Destination 2: Orbiting in space just above Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Return flight reward: (7500 + 7500) * 2 = 30000

Scenario 3: Orbit the Mun

Itinerary 1: Orbit the Mun

Destination 1: Suborbital flight over Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Destination 2: Orbiting in space just above Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Destination 3: Orbiting in space high above Kerbin (1.5 * 7500 = 11250)

Destination 4: On an escape trajectory out of the Mun (2 * 7500 = 15000)

Destination 5: Orbiting in space high above the Mun (2 * 7500 = 15000)

Return flight reward: (7500 + 7500 + 11250 + 15000 + 15000) * 2 = 85500

Scenario 3: Duna orbit, Ike flyby

Itinerary 1: Orbit Duna

Destination 1: Suborbital flight over Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Destination 2: Orbiting in space just above Kerbin (1 * 7500 = 7500)

Destination 3: Orbiting in space high above Kerbin (1.5 * 7500 = 11250)

Destination 4: Orbiting in space high above the sun (2 * 7500 = 15000)

Destination 5: On an escape trajectory out of Duna (5 * 7500 = 37500)

Destination 6: Orbiting in space high above Duna (5 * 7500 = 37500)

Itinerary 2: Flyby of Ike (starting state: orbiting in space high above Duna)

Destination 1: On an escape trajectory out of Ike (5 * 7500 = 37500)

Completion: (7500 + 7500 + 11250 + 15000 + 37500 + 37500 + 37500) * 2 = 461250

Obviously it could use a bit of tweaking, but the basic idea is there. It would result in much more sensible fares as destinations get further afield of Kerbin.

I like this approach

[Green Baron]

Were the game multiplayer, i'd do it cheaper. But the tourists would have to stand during flight

k

just about to found "kyanspace"

Edited May 16, 2015 by kemde