Must I give up on KSP? I do not want it :(

[pendant]

[...]

Realistic, for me, is when you have to launch a comsats network before you can even control things on the other side of the planet, planning life support resources to keep your astronauts alive, have decaying RTGs, engine ignition limits, mach effect, random failure, etc.

... all of which are features that I, for one, would love to see implemented in KSP. Greater realism in simulations is something to strive for and aspire to, in my book. I would hope that if a future release of KSP were to change some of the things to which I had become accustomed, I would understand and welcome such changes.

I do, however, sympathise with those who may have spent a long time (in some cases, a very long time) getting to grips with how an earlier (pre-release) version functioned and be possibly dismayed by the apparent 'waste of time'. Such folk may well have played a major role in assisting progress to the release edition of the software, and they deserve thanks for that.

[Windspren]

personally im not a huge fan of the aero in 1.x that i tried, while i could get everything to fly there was the weird rockets flipping over at 12km and that just pissed me off as a test i actually made a rocket which was just mk1 command pod then 2 long fuel tanks and an lv45 with 4 of the early winglets and even flying purely prograde and only controlling the turn at launch for a full grav turn it would still flip out,

and before people like nikkyD start trolling me as though im some noob, bear in mind that most of my 1000ish hours of play have been using FAR and over half of the total on RO so its not like i dont understand gravity turns or thrust to weight ratios or simulated Aerodynamics.

but

But can you prove that you did all that? Anyway, if you don't like the stock game you can always use those mods that you just listed.

Don't blame the game.

[scifi6546]

My angle is, I'm playing a fictional game, with fictional characters, in a fictional solar system with fictional planets that have fictional names, and I do not want any of this realism crap.

I liked it better when it was just science-fiction. all the fun has been sucked out of this game and there's no way to opt-out and get the fun back.

ever since the update every single one of my ships have exploded on the launch pad from random bullcrap structural linkage failures, even on old ships that once flew perfectly in 0.90. and when I do get one in the air, the air resistance pulls the ship apart and kaboom! there goes 15 minutes of work. I've spent a total of 3 days so far, and not a single vessel made it into orbit due to random explosions. I'm sure the new atmosphere is great and all, but holy hell, stop trolling me with the explosions, I can't even get one off the damn pad. struts explode, girders explode... how the hell does a girder explode?

you can just play older versions of ksp

[r4pt0r]

Guy goes to sleep and wakes up to another one of these threads.

Oh.

[magnemoe]

If you haven't already, try keeping your rocket straight up till 25,000. On the G indicator to the right of the navball, adjust throttle as you go up so you are only at 1.5G's. If you speed up fast, try to throttle down to keep yourself under ~200m/s until you reach around 7,000.

Also, use the AV-R8 Winglet, it's available in early career and will allow you more control over your rocket when you're in the atmosphere!

Can you post the components of a rocket you are trying to fly so others can try it out and maybe give more detailed tips?

This, its also an good idea if you launch something who is totaly non aerodynamic.

[Esme]

If you're able to access v0.9, then I'd reccommend using that if 1.0 doesn't float your boat. Granted, I'm still playing 0.9 because my PC isn't quite powerful enough to handle 1.0 graphics entirely properly (there's problems with a handful of parts, on my PC) but I'm having a ton of fun with v0.9, learning to do interplanetary missions, and this game will be the one in which I learn how to use the MKS mod, as a prelude to a game in some months time, where I'll be trying to emulate Mars Direct. Hopefully by then I'll have a new PC with better graphics capability :-)

0.9 isn;t 1.0 - but that doesn't necessarily make it less fun.

And if your problem is simply with aircraft on the runway, that sounds as if making sure you have enough yaw authority (a sufficiently effective rudder) might be all you need.

[Jonboy]

Seems like there has to be a thread at all times discussing "realism vs gameplay" and how Squad completely destroyed any sense of balance between the two with 1.0x. Seriously, this conversation has been had so many times in the last month, do we have to do it again?

[Aerindel]

Seriously, this conversation has been had so many times in the last month, do we have to do it again?

Yes. We need to have it every single day until its fixed. Never forget, never surrender.

[r4pt0r]

Yes. We need to have it every single day until its fixed. Never forget, never surrender.

but its not broken. It is acting exactly as squad intends.

[Jonboy]

but its not broken. It is acting exactly as squad intends.

Clearly Squad is broken then, and we must fix them. /s

[vej]

Serious, I am really think about it.

I cant fly anything straight. It's like playing a new game, maybe it is, and maybe I need to (re)learn the game.

I try almost every approach to get into orbit, simple rockets, perfect align, all of them tend to turn right. No matter what I do. Even simple parts because of their CoM turns right when are stopped.

So, what to do? I cant play like this, I am getting desperate, I really like a lot of the many changes the game got over the past year.

It's not been fun anymore, I know the trick of 10km 45º dont work, I saw many videos, tried to follow many suggestions here but I cant get it right. I am not a total noob in dealing with aerodynamic games (flight simulator anyone?), but KSP is not real.

I started playing KSP for the very first time pretty much right when 1.0.2 dropped. It's hilarious thinking about how little I actually knew about getting stuff off the ground. It was a struggle at first -- especially in early career -- but it definitely wasn't as bad as you make it sound. C'mon, if a total newb can figure it out, why can't you with all your experience? Even now, I mostly roll my eyes at this whole debate over the new aero because it's all I've known and I don't really find it annoying. Edit your config if you're so "desperate" for the easy-mode halcyon of yore.

[Daid]

People come on.

Yes. You need to re-learn how to build rockets. Because, whatever you learned in pre 1.0 is wrong.

I'm a casual player. I have like less then 100 hours on my name, and I started on 0.16. Never been to jool, dres, eeloo. I'm using twice the dV for most transfers then you would actually need.

And I f* love 1.x.x. Adds all kinds of goodies. Took me about 10 launches of small rockets to understand the new aerodynamics model. After that I'm having less launch failures then in pre 1.0. Most important rule: Go slow. If you are losing control and flipping, you are most likely pushing too hard. Don't go all out full speed until the nav ball says "orbit" instead of "surface".

[TheSaint]

These threads crack me up. Last night I flew this into orbit:

Underneath the fairing is a 106-ton space station that I was too lazy to send up piecemeal. The stock aero is not unforgiving. You guys are all hysterical.

[synketa]

I am all for realism, I use mods to enhance that part of the game

well.... you are not into realism...

[Yukon0009]

Vell, at least the current aero is better than no aero (or just brick aero, for the old versions).

[SelectHalfling0]

Just watch some tutorials and 1.0 preview vids (namely WinterOwl). Those will show you everything you need to know.

[sisyphean]

Without a proper second stage or payload that thing will become quite bottom heavy and too fast.

what you say is in fact true however that in itself is unrealistic, before you try to argue against that assertion perhaps you should look at the mercury redstone launches or hell even the v2 launches. both rockets are only single stage and yet neither of them consistently flipped over mid flight due to weight distribution.

while the current aero is a step up from the previous bowl of turd soup it is by no means infallible. most of the issues come from other aspects of the game such as the over simplification of fluid tank mechanics and COM shifts and how that is handled especially with regards to aero, to point out how imperfect the new aero is just take a look at the fact you can bring a vehicle back from orbit on a very steep trajectory without a heat shield provided you have sufficient air brakes.

BUT while the new aero is not perfect i am still eagerly awaiting the 1.0 version of RO to come out because there are substantial improvements in the game and the issues of the new aero will become irrelevant when i can make my own shape and size fuel tanks.

[Hotblack Desiato]

These threads crack me up. Last night I flew this into orbit:

http://i.imgur.com/X0w5aLs.png

Underneath the fairing is a 106-ton space station that I was too lazy to send up piecemeal. The stock aero is not unforgiving. You guys are all hysterical.

nice

the magic of procedural fairings. although I never managed to get similarly shaped payloads into space (with NEAR). at a certain size (let's say something close to a 1000t SSTO, I just dropped using fairings at all, but that was in 0.90.

to the OP: I recommend installing kerbal joint reinforcement and the above mentioned procedural fairings. it helps a lot with rockets, they become less wobbly and the fairings work better than the stock ones.

besides, have you tried using fins at the bottom of the rocket? they help a lot with stability, especially the active ones.

[Bill Phil]

what you say is in fact true however that in itself is unrealistic, before you try to argue against that assertion perhaps you should look at the mercury redstone launches or hell even the v2 launches. both rockets are only single stage and yet neither of them consistently flipped over mid flight due to weight distribution.

I think you missed "or payload".

Not to mention that those rockets were designed to be single stage missiles. Probably following the rule of thumb "at least ten times as long as wide."

[Eric S]

personally im not a huge fan of the aero in 1.x that i tried, while i could get everything to fly there was the weird rockets flipping over at 12km and that just pissed me off as a test i actually made a rocket which was just mk1 command pod then 2 long fuel tanks and an lv45 with 4 of the early winglets and even flying purely prograde and only controlling the turn at launch for a full grav turn it would still flip out,

Interesting, I just made exactly that craft in a stock 1.0.2 to see how stable it was and couldn't get it to flip. I did a 90 degree pitch maneuver at transsonic speeds after turning off SAS and capsule torque and it still tried to pitch back prograde as soon as I stopped trying to steer. And yes, this was after the top tank had drained, so the center of gravity issue was about as bad as it's gonna get while you're low enough in the atmosphere for it to matter. The only ways I finally managed to get it to flip was by either deliberately mounting the fins too high or just removing them. I think you're going to have to provide more details in order for us to have any chance of reproducing this (us as in forum readers, I'm not any kind of official representative).

what you say is in fact true however that in itself is unrealistic, before you try to argue against that assertion perhaps you should look at the mercury redstone launches or hell even the v2 launches. both rockets are only single stage and yet neither of them consistently flipped over mid flight due to weight distribution.

To be honest, both of those rockets had more control surface area than the rocket you described, considerably more in the case of the V-2/A-4. And yes, in testing, even the V-2/A-4 could tumble out of control.

[SAI Peregrinus]

The rocket flipping issue in stock aero comes from the tech tree distribution and the fuel consumption rules.

Fuel is consumed by an engine from the farthest tank first.

The tech tree starts with only very short tanks available, so several of them need to be stacked within any given stage.

Thus, fuel drains from the nose first, and the rocket flips.

Fins help. Fuel lines help. Longer tanks help. Career takes those away at the beginning, which doesn't help.

[Windspren]

What suprises me is that there are more posts on a thread complaining about the game then there are usually on a thread asking for help in learning the game.

[Francois424]

Ok, something is wrong... Same rocket as last week in 1.0.2, I launched 10 times and everything worked fine.

This week seeing this tread I was curious to try again. I launched again, and the ....... of a rocket keeps turning the opposite way (dropping out) as soon as I hit ~17-20km.

I thought this was a fluke and I launched 3 more times, following prograde... nopes, flips out every single time.

I don't know what's up anymore. but I don't have time to try and find out for the next 2-15 hours. Going to play something else instead. Again, SAME rocket, Same launch profile, keeps flipping out... was ok in 1.0.2 last week.

The 'Too annoying' factor is beating the 'fun factor', and I'm very patient with KSP. oh well.

[EDIT: LOL! tried another time... I can't stress this enough; same rocke, same launch profile... Now I'm in orbit without flipping. I give-up, I don't know ... is going on lol]

Edited May 17, 2015 by Francois424

[PB666]

Serious, I am really think about it.

I am all for realism, I use mods to enhance that part of the game, but since 1.02 and the new aerodynamic model, I cant fly anything straight. It's like playing a new game, maybe it is, and maybe I need to (re)learn the game.

I try almost every approach to get into orbit, simple rockets, perfect align, all of them tend to turn right. No matter what I do. Even simple parts because of their CoM turns right when are stopped.

So, what to do? I cant play like this, I am getting desperate, I really like a lot of the many changes the game got over the past year.

It's not been fun anymore, I know the trick of 10km 45º dont work, I saw many videos, tried to follow many suggestions here but I cant get it right. I am not a total noob in dealing with aerodynamic games (flight simulator anyone?), but KSP is not real.

With this in mind, I really prefer to get dumb, and play the 0.90 model of aerodynamics. I just want to get into my career build rockets and planes and fly for fun, building stuff in space, etc.

Is there any way to "dumb down" the aerodynamic model? I saw many options on the hacking console about the drag, heat, and so on, but those are things I do not understand.

I just really wanted to have 0.90 aero in the game. I never used FAR because of that, maybe I should have, still, its not fun anymore for me, having to struggle everytime I try to lunch a kerbal into orbit.

Can anyone help me?

Thank you.

I don't actually see what your problems are. I actually tried to make rockets fail today, I placed a 1150L tank + PL on top of the super long booster and it remained stable until it hit 310 M/S (which is approximately the speed of sound at the altitude). All I had to do to make it stable was turn the thrust down on the booster in the VAB. (the winglets did make it wobble but I just moved them from the bottom of the booster to 3/4ths the way up and it tuned down the oversteer and stopped the wobble. I actually created 10 different rockets to see if I could get a failure, and only the longest booster with an extremely top heavy payload caused a failure.

Maybe all the stuff I make is super stable, I don't think so, I think the problem is that some folks here have gotten used to MACH 2 launch velocities that they fail to realized that there is a reason that most commerical AC cannot go more than 0.90 MACH, because it takes alot of recrafted aero to cross the speed of sound and maintain flight control.

Just slow down your lift-offs maintain 5000 @ 160, 10000 @ 220, 15000 @ 260, 20000 @ 320 and pitch changes of 1' per 1000 feet to 15000 feet and 2' per 1000 feet to 36,000 feet.

[Alshain]

Ok, something is wrong... Same rocket as last week in 1.0.2, I launched 10 times and everything worked fine.

This week seeing this tread I was curious to try again. I launched again, and the ....... of a rocket keeps turning the opposite way (dropping out) as soon as I hit ~17-20km.

I thought this was a fluke and I launched 3 more times, following prograde... nopes, flips out every single time.

I don't know what's up anymore. but I don't have time to try and find out for the next 2-15 hours. Going to play something else instead. Again, SAME rocket, Same launch profile, keeps flipping out... was ok in 1.0.2 last week.

The 'Too annoying' factor is beating the 'fun factor', and I'm very patient with KSP. oh well.

[EDIT: LOL! tried another time... I can't stress this enough; same rocke, same launch profile... Now I'm in orbit without flipping. I give-up, I don't know ... is going on lol]

You know, we can't help you in the slightest with a post that says "I have a rocket that flips." You have to describe your ascent a bit better and post a screenshot of the rocket.

There are plenty of us not having any issues with the new aero so it's one of two things, 1. Your rocket design. 2. Your piloting. Help us help you.