Real ISRU Development Thread

[smartdummies]

Draft model of "Elektron". Lowest tank is 100 liter water storage.

http://i.imgur.com/Vlaj1bG.png

Connecting all this crap with tubes will be pain in the ass... and texturing too...

Looks pretty good. Not sure you really need to put a lot of pipes in. Just enough to convey the idea and represent that things are flowing would be sufficient, imho

[regex]

Looks pretty good. Not sure you really need to put a lot of pipes in. Just enough to convey the idea and represent that things are flowing would be sufficient, imho

Totally agree on all counts, looks really good and a few pipes are really all that's needed to tie it together.

[DBowman]

Dr. Jet - the new hex core & Elektron are looking really nice.

[Dr. Jet]

I've learned how to make tubes fast and easy... But there are complications.

1) Cannot see what should be connected where. (So I'm just pluging tubes in first hole available).

2) Not sure that Unity will eat modified bezier curves. Maybe that will call for meshifying those... but I don't know how.

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Unity ate it!

Now let's try if it will work in KSP...

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It works!

KSP eats modified bezier curves as well as Unity.

While I'm trying to stuff other draft parts into KSP... Are there any volunteers to help with texturing/animations?

Edited June 7, 2015 by Dr. Jet

[Dr. Jet]

Some progress...

P.S. I'm kinda disappointed with how GitHub clients work... Any chance to make them behave like TortoiseSVN?

Edited June 7, 2015 by Dr. Jet

[Daishi]

KSP eats modified bezier curves as well as Unity.

While I'm trying to stuff other draft parts into KSP... Are there any volunteers to help with texturing/animations?

So is the game actually rendering the curves? Or has Unity converted the tubes into polygons? I'd watch out for the tri count if its the latter, things can get pretty dense when the game tries to convert a precise curve into geometry

What are your UV maps like? Would the texturers have the freedom to make their own and modify the mesh in the process?

Very nice so far!

[Dr. Jet]

What are your UV maps like?

Right now - mostly Cube Projection and Blender SmartUnwrap. More than enough for simple 128x128 material textures.

We still don't have 64-bit client, so single 512x512 is maximum, 1-2 256x256 is good, staying with 2-3 128x128 textures is excellent.

Would the texturers have the freedom to make their own and modify the mesh in the process?

I'll just give blender and Unity files to whomever want some painting practice. Mesh is solid only where it makes sense, so it won't be too hard to unwrap even by hands.

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So is the game actually rendering the curves? Or has Unity converted the tubes into polygons?

Not sure. I've figured out how to meshify those. 100 vertices for each tube is not so much IMHO. But it's much more comfortable to stay with curves... They are easily editable, while mesh is not.

[Dr. Jet]

Some nice illustrated reading about ISRU:

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/infrastructure.php

[regex]

Some progress...

http://i.imgur.com/rQEdrpD.png

P.S. I'm kinda disappointed with how GitHub clients work... Any chance to make them behave like TortoiseSVN?

Looking good! As far as GitHub is concerned I use Git from the command line (and SVN for that matter) so I'm not the one to ask. E: Also, if you have a GitHub account let me know via PM and I'll give you access to commit directly to the repo. Edited June 7, 2015 by regex

[tmikesecrist3]

regex Is there a plan for to add a green house that would work with TAC life support? in RSS/RO?

Edited June 9, 2015 by tmikesecrist3

[Dr. Jet]

regex Is there a plan for to add a green house that would work with TAC life support? in RSS/RO?

I believe it's a good idea. Though not a single greenhouse but a replica of single fully sucessful CCLS experiment in real world - soviet BIOS-3. However that experiment was held underground, so we'll need a brainstorm about how it's modules should look in space.

For temporary substitute I recommend UKS/MKS. It's not very realistic, but it's a working CCLS.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Dr. Jet

[tmikesecrist3]

I know nasa has toyed with the idea since Van Bron's time.... and it would make a lot of since for any long term mission... I dont think any one trying it in space other then a few plants on some space stations.... but I dont use CCLS if thats a life support mod, I use TAC becouse it works with RO... also there are planes of green houses for mars or moon bases....

[jonrd463]

I know nasa has toyed with the idea since Van Bron's time.... and it would make a lot of since for any long term mission... I dont think any one trying it in space other then a few plants on some space stations.... but I dont use CCLS if thats a life support mod, I use TAC becouse it works with RO... also there are planes of green houses for mars or moon bases....

CCLS = Close Cycle Life Support. Basically, a system that allows for constant replenishing of life support resources, which MKS/OKS allows for. I'm sure that Regex, Dr. Jet, and anyone else working on this will give it the proper consideration with regard for realism in this mod (assuming, of course, LS is part of the scope for this project), but for stock KSP, I'd recommend the Soylent mod for your life support replenishment needs. It's simple, uses only a handful of parts, and has just enough in-fiction plausibility to not feel too cheaty, imo.

BTW, I wish I was good with content creation, because I'd totally get in on this action. Instead, I'll just eagerly watch the progress. I can't wait for RO for 1.*.* to be released, and then have this to run alongside. Kudos, and great job to all so far!

Edited June 9, 2015 by jonrd463

[Dr. Jet]

I know nasa has toyed with the idea since Van Bron's time.... and it would make a lot of since for any long term mission... I dont think any one trying it in space other then a few plants on some space stations.... but I dont use CCLS if thats a life support mod, I use TAC becouse it works with RO... also there are planes of green houses for mars or moon bases....

Yep. They did. But all NASA experiments failed by one or another reason. BIOS-3 was a single sucessor in known history. It achieved 100% self-sufficiency by oxygen and water and around 80% self-sufficiency by food (canned meats can't be grown, you know ). Modern NASA colonial projects are planned to reach 100% food self-sufficiency by adding fish tanks into the system, but that's only projects, no experiments were held yet.

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I'd recommend the Soylent mod for your life support replenishment needs. It's simple, uses only a handful of parts, and has just enough in-fiction plausibility to not feel too cheaty, imo.

If we imagine that kerbals can live on algae... then yes, plausible. But humans can't. Lot's of experiments proved it.

[regex]

regex Is there a plan for to add a green house that would work with TAC life support? in RSS/RO?

I believe it's a good idea. Though not a single greenhouse but a replica of single fully sucessful CCLS experiment in real world - soviet BIOS-3. However that experiment was held underground, so we'll need a brainstorm about how it's modules should look in space.

I am totally on-board with this after the basics are up and running. I think it would be an excellent addition.

Yep. They did. But all NASA experiments failed by one or another reason. BIOS-3 was a single sucessor in known history. It achieved 100% self-sufficiency by oxygen and water and around 80% self-sufficiency by food (canned meats can't be grown, you know ). Modern NASA colonial projects are planned to reach 100% food self-sufficiency by adding fish tanks into the system, but that's only projects, no experiments were held yet.

Nice. I think this is definitely a feasible 2030-ish goal, which is within our time frame. This whole mod is very much "near future" so we do have some elbow room.

Also, I've been thinking about how KSP actually models solar flux now and a long-term plan may be to model radiation. Something to keep on the back-burner if no one else does it... I know KSPI used to do that but having a fantasy mod as a hard dependency sticks in my craw.

Once again, I apologize for developing fairly slowly, but ~:real life:~. Major contributions from me will take place on Fridays, generally. Rest assured I am 100% committed to this project.

[jonrd463]

If we imagine that kerbals can live on algae... then yes, plausible. But humans can't. Lot's of experiments proved it.

Yep. hence "in-fiction" Reading about some of those experiments, especially the Russian one the Soylent modder based the mod off of is a bit stomach churning. Dear god, the smell!

[DBowman]

Hi, Soylent modder here.

Modelling radiation would be great, are you thinking also ionising radiation? (fission reactors and shielding/not etc) What do you think of the background processing mod - it sounds like it will call a 'hook' at time intervals while the craft is unloaded and that solar panels working 'comes with it'.

Re Algae:

jonrd463 thanks for the recommendation!

Dr. Jet I think it's fair to say that microbe based LS has not been demonstrated so far but also that it has genuine potential. A lot of fish farm food is now derived from industrial use of microbes, including protein from methane for under 2 $/kg. ESA has been running research for years and continues to fund it. I think at a big picture level it makes sense to 'start at the bottom of the food chain' and to use automated/remote managed mechanised fluid pumping tech rather than having expensive astronauts 'do gardening'.

[Dr. Jet]

Dr. Jet I think it's fair to say that microbe based LS has not been demonstrated so far but also that it has genuine potential. A lot of fish farm food is now derived from industrial use of microbes, including protein from methane for under 2 $/kg.

Link please? I heard about biological cycle to convert methane into methanol, but edible proteins... Well, it's possible... technically, but I never heard of it.

[DBowman]

These guys are touting using natural gas from fracking to feed salmon to feed people, crazy: http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21649441-feeding-farmed-salmon-protein-made-methane-gas-guzzlers

This is what made me think 'ooooh solar array re-texture' http://www.dw.de/gardens-in-space-how-microalgae-and-flat-panel-reactors-could-sustain-life/a-16997493

This has a bit of a survey / summary: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/lifesupport.php

It seems like by picking the species you can tune protein, carb, and fat - the trouble is probably all the right vitamins, avoiding too much of the bits that would make you sick, and I guess 'palatability'.

[Dr. Jet]

I remembered there was such mod already. Biomass. It used both algae and anaerobic bacterial tanks to process organic waste.

[Dr. Jet]

Still can't find proper pictures of sabatier reactor. All available are full assemblies of sabatier with air scrubber and electrolyser so I can't tell which part belongs to what.

So... Next part will be PSA air separator unit, based on this. Don't look at that "O2" thing, PSA units are the same for all gases, adsorbent is that what is different.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Dr. Jet

[Dr. Jet]

PSA unit Blender draft. Compressor (on top) is not drawn yet. Planning to make animated fan intake for it.

P.S. Should I add dust filters and some pressure gauges or model is already too complicated?

Edited June 12, 2015 by Dr. Jet

[riocrokite]

dunno if that helps but here's sabatier reactor for iss:

http://www.slideshare.net/NASAPMC/gersetenmaierwilliam-l

[regex]

http://i.imgur.com/sQ9zku7.png

PSA unit Blender draft. Compressor (on top) is not drawn yet. Planning to make animated fan intake for it.

P.S. Should I add dust filters and some pressure gauges or model is already too complicated?

I think it looks great as-is. There's a certain point where too much detail in a model gets lost and you can't really appreciate the detail that's there.

I've been playing around with asteroid resources and because of how they're generated I've had to find some 'filler' resources from CRP. Right now I'm just using Rock to make the Water content correct but it might be worth it to have a realistic distribution of other stuff in case someone builds a RealEPL or something. Any opinions?

[Daishi]

Still can't find proper pictures of sabatier reactor. All available are full assemblies of sabatier with air scrubber and electrolyser so I can't tell which part belongs to what.

I picked the CO2 compressor assembly (with the cover off, and some artistic license) to make up the bulk of my Sabatier part. Having the whole rack is probably overkill.

I'm sure Regex wouldn't mind a little abstraction of the equipment for the sake of better performance with a simpler model. That, and you can suggest so much detail with textures and normal maps