Realistic Fantasy Adventuring Armour

[baggers]

I was thinking of something like 10-20kg max for a full "light" chain mail. A butcher gantlet is 0.2Kg 0.4Kg if cover the arm to the elbow.

You are rigth for the small rings problem. But you could probably hire smurf blacksmiths ^^

Edited May 29, 2015 by baggers

[DaveofDefeat]

I would take the stuff used in modern stab vests and make full body armor out of that.

[Camacha]

I would take the stuff used in modern stab vests and make full body armor out of that.

How are you going to cut it, eh?

[RainDreamer]

I would take the stuff used in modern stab vests and make full body armor out of that.

Not sure if kevlar and other polycarbonate is something you can make in a fantasy setting easily. That said, paper armor using resins layers does get pretty close to kevlar. It does have a short shelf life however.

[Starwhip]

It does have a short shelf life however.

If it saves your butt from a demon, who the heck cares about shelf life?

[Camacha]

That said, paper armor using resins layers does get pretty close to kevlar. It does have a short shelf life however.

If that is tree resin it will also burn like the Hindenburg. Not suitable for torch filled dungeons.

[baggers]

If that is tree resin it will also burn like the Hindenburg. Not suitable for torch filled dungeons.

Not to mention some flamming inhabitants!

Edited May 29, 2015 by baggers

[RainDreamer]

If it saves your butt from a demon, who the heck cares about shelf life?

When you are going out adventuring, durability and reliability is going to be quite important, since the one armor you have is probably going to have to last for quite a while before you even reach the next town. You don't want to pick up one that is beginning to rot from a shady merchant and die due to it falling apart.

If that is tree resin it will also burn like the Hindenburg. Not suitable for torch filled dungeons.

Or just an errant fireball from the party's mage. It sure is cheap, light and quite effective though, and worked pretty well for the chinese. So as long as you avoid fire, mostly things would be fine.

[baggers]

When you are going out adventuring, durability and reliability is going to be quite important, since the one armor you have is probably going to have to last for quite a while before you even reach the next town. You don't want to pick up one that is beginning to rot from a shady merchant and die due to it falling apart.

.

Doesn't usually aventurer change of gear pretty often? I think every dungeon feature an roaming armorer somewhere in the level next to the dungeon master. Supply and demand laws...

[G'th]

The thing also about Knights in heavy plate type armor, is that a lot of them wouldn't have necessarily been on foot. While a Knight could certainly fight well on foot in his armor, ideally speaking a knight or any kind of warrior that would be fighting primarily (if not entirely) on foot wouldn't want to be using plate armor, at least not to the point pop culture would have you believe anyway. Full plate armor is typically meant to be used on horseback.

A Knight on foot would may be go for some plate on his chest, thighs, hands, and his head. All the uncovered areas wouldn't be critical and using plate in those areas would typically hamper your fighting ability depending on the armor and how it was made. And even then, plate armors that were designed in such a way to maintain a Knights full combat ability, would likely either be very very expensive, and/or wouldn't have much an advantage anyway.

Still though, knights on foot still wouldn't likely use plate. Especially in the time periods most western RPG's tend to emulate. IIRC, plate armor on foot soldiers wasn't too common up until the Renaissance, at which point it was rendered mostly obsolete by firearms anyway.

[Starwhip]

-snip-

Indeed, armor generally lags behind weaponry... an unfortunate tendency.

Giving a little more thought to this, it seems as if there might be a desirable middle ground between plate armor and light mail or leather/paper. IMHO, a shield is probably the better option, as it can be quite large and thick without directly hindering one's movement.

So, shield plus leather?

[baggers]

@G'th: Going that way, you would have to say in which year take your dungeoning. And deduce which technology/armor is best available at that time.

[Wanderfound]

One point not yet raised: the problem with metal armour isn't that it's heavy and bulky (it isn't, really; you can do gymnastics in well-fitted armour), it's that it's hot​. There are historical accounts of knights collapsing from heat exhaustion while fighting in snow.

[RainDreamer]

Indeed, armor generally lags behind weaponry... an unfortunate tendency.

Giving a little more thought to this, it seems as if there might be a desirable middle ground between plate armor and light mail or leather/paper. IMHO, a shield is probably the better option, as it can be quite large and thick without directly hindering one's movement.

So, shield plus leather?

Well, defensive technology is reactive in its own nature. You can't protect against something that you do not know about until it is used somewhere.

As for the shield....a shield is still pretty damn heavy, as that is still essentially a hunk of metal strapped to your arm, and it would restrict that arm's movement. An armor is after all just a body shaped shield. Maybe a buckler, or hell, just a single plated gauntlet to deflect blows or grab the enemy's weapon when you have the chance (not directly catching it mid swing, as that would obliterate your arm and hand).

Then again, it is depending on your fighting style. Big shield usually go with spear and is used to blocks arrows. Bucklers and such are for close range hand to hand combat.

[Starwhip]

The other solution is a good weapon. Though not entirely answering the OP's question, the old saying "the best defense is a good offense" holds merit. If an arrow with an armor-piercing tip is shot at you with the force of 100 pounds of draw weight on a longbow, unless you've got pretty damn thick plate armor, I doubt you would survive.

The other thing you could do is a turtle shield manuever if you've got a party. Or you could make a one-man APC out of an armor shell on wheels.

[Wesreidau]

Chain is more encumbering than plate and shields were almost always wooden. Shields could be used offensively; Viking-style round shields were almost certainly used to thrust with the rims. Rome practically won her wars by the shield, although I recall one account in which constant rains waterlogged shields and made them too heavy to raise against constantly harassing archers. The archers at Agincourt were almost certainly shooting bodkins at the French; the only unarmored targets were the horses. French knights were recorded for a large part to not be carrying shields, strongly suggesting no real concern over arrow fire which the French were well-accustomed to. Meanwhile the horses were shot down wallowing in mud or driven from the field while the mounted and dismounted troops weathered longbow fire for the duration. French crossbowmen (Genoese mercenaries) were used to no effect against the plate-armored English foot-knights at the outset, suggesting they weren't effective. Speaking of Genoese, the Holy Roman Empire (actually Holy, Roman and an Empire, when you think about it) and Italian states were constantly at it, and subsequently developed world-class plate armor styles in their attempt to defeat the other while being nationally recognizable by bare metal alone.

As for the papal ban on crossbows? Nonsense.

The Canons of the Second Lateran Council, 1123, Canon 29

We forbid under penalty of anathema that that deadly and God-detested art of stingers and archers be in the future exercised against Christians and Catholics.

This ban covers not only crossbows but ordinary bows and slings. Slings won't defeat plate armor; plate is probably your best defense! Plate armor was not introduced until the late 12th century and reached its zenith in the Renaissance. There is thus no reason to think the Pope banned it for fear it would kill the knightly class; they'd been dealing with arrows for longer than that and the weapon would persist for town militias, Flemish Ritteren and crack mercenaries until the gun took over (plate defeated bullets as well for a long while, and still can). Modern scholarship suggests the ban was actually against archery tournaments.

Plate is just the be-all-end-all. Brigandine is second best; I'd take a brigandine jacket, in hindsight. That's just plate scales sewn onto a silk shirt.

[Aanker]

And that's why we should all celebrate firearms as if they were sent by the gods themselves. Muskets were easy to learn, easy to use, and could punch through the armour of oppressive knights and lords. With time, they moved away battlefield power from the nobles into the hands of your everyday infantryman (pretty much a development going into the end of World War I, where tanks broke the infantry spamfest).

'Sides. 18th century Prussian line infantry is way cooler than knights anyway.

Drop the armour and bring a few extra rounds for your Brown Bess instead.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Aanker

[Legendary Emu]

The other solution is a good weapon. Though not entirely answering the OP's question, the old saying "the best defense is a good offense" holds merit.-snip-

Heh, I'm considering changing the title to Fantasy Gear instead of Armour. A broader term would be good for this thread.

As for the papal ban on crossbows? Nonsense.

Well I didn't know that *gets flung into a gorge*

Anyways. Everyone knows that while you are hastily reloading your musket a skeleton can stroll up and bonk you on the head (avoided if you are wearing a stylish wide brimmed hat). And while you're at it, be careful it doesn't misfire in the dank and musty halls of an old sunken fortress.

[RainDreamer]

Well in a magical settings we can certainly skip the musket and straight up using enchanted guns. Localized small-scale fireball spell inside a chamber to propel a bullet would serve as well as any gun powder.

[Aanker]

Heh, I'm considering changing the title to Fantasy Gear instead of Armour. A broader term would be good for this thread.

Well I didn't know that *gets flung into a gorge*

Anyways. Everyone knows that while you are hastily reloading your musket a skeleton can stroll up and bonk you on the head (avoided if you are wearing a stylish wide brimmed hat). And while you're at it, be careful it doesn't misfire in the dank and musty halls of an old sunken fortress.

Correction: wear multiple short-range pistols along your X cross shoulder belts (akin to the pirates of yore), along with a rapier for the really desperate situations and a bottle of rum to round out the picture. You could then have a long-range musket on your back, or a hand cannon.

As far as magic goes, silver bullets render silver swords less than redundant and plate armour won't stop the really powerful pyromancers anyway.

Piratey adventurer matey kit layout:

Piratey Tricorne (10% bonus against other pirates)

Adventurer Loose Shirt

Ravager Leather Vest

Buccaneer Pants or shorts

Piratey Boots

Pistols

Musket

Rapier

Hook

Eyepatch (10% increased protection against eye damage on the covered eye.... wait a minute)

Edited May 29, 2015 by Aanker

[Scotius]

Actually, silver melts too easily to be used for firearm projectiles For werewolf hunting you would want silver tipped arows, crossbow bolts and heck, even shurikens and throwing knives. And caltrops - never forget the use of caltrops against a shoeless foe

[Aanker]

Actually, silver melts too easily to be used for firearm projectiles

Magix

If there's something magical enough for a silver bullet to kill, then there's enough magic to have the silver bullet

Although that does open the door to fire resistant spells on plate armour, so we are back at that in either case.

[baggers]

You don't need "magic" to fire a silver bullet.

Just a jacket (paper jacket for old school gunners), or if you fire round bullets in an old "bang" gun, a paper or cotton patch.

It work well.

Actually, lead is more soft and melt quicker than silver.

Edited May 29, 2015 by baggers

[Camacha]

strongly suggesting [...] suggesting

There are a lot of suggestions there, but every battle is different and without a good understanding of the total logistics, plans, available gear, circumstances etcetera, you can never properly tell whether such an event or choice actually means something, or simply was forced upon people by the circumstances.

And that's why we should all celebrate firearms as if they were sent by the gods themselves. Muskets were easy to learn, easy to use, and could punch through the armour of oppressive knights and lords.

It does not matter. The knights and lords just got thicker armour, and better yet, got foot soldiers to drive it across the battle field. I think having to fight in the war you start is a decent measure to prevent frivolous wars.

[Wanderfound]

Incidentally, both brigandine and serious articulated plate are fairly high-tech; they didn't appear until around the spread of firearms in the Renaissance (and even then they were largely the armour of a tiny ultra-wealthy minority). Your Middle Ages types are in mail; their men at arms are in leather or buff coats.