KSC Total Science?

[meyerweb]

Apologies if this is already well-known, but if so, my Google-fu has failed me. Basically, what I want to know is, how much total science is there in all the KSC biomes, and just the KSC biomes? Bonus points for splitting it out by experiment/report type, but I’d be happy with just a single number.

Edited December 12, 2015 by meyerweb
Cleaned up forum migration errors (Unicode and hyperlinking were both botched—sigh)

[Mighty1]

On the top of my head i think you get 1,5 to 2,5 science per experiment for every building + launch pad, runway, crawlway and flagpole.

[r4pt0r]

I never get ksc science other than the launch pad. I dont like the grind, and the points are negligible.

EDIT: well ok, not so much negligible if you collect it all, still grindy as hell though lol.

Edited June 1, 2015 by r4pt0r

[LittleBlueGaming]

There's a lot. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head, but temp scan, pressure scan, air analysis, mystery goo, materials study, gravity, seismic, crew report, EVA report, surface sample(might have missed some), for each of 32 biomes.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, just tested. 52.4+ science for each biome possible, times 32 biomes = 1728+ total.

The +'s mean you can get slightly more if you run it more than one time.

[TABLE=width: 500]

[TR]

[TD]EVA Report[/TD]

[TD]2.4[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Crew Report[/TD]

[TD]1.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Surface Sample[/TD]

[TD]9.0+[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Materials Study[/TD]

[TD]7.5+[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Mystery Goo[/TD]

[TD]3.0+[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Temperature[/TD]

[TD]2.4[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Pressure[/TD]

[TD]3.6[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Atmosphere Analysis[/TD]

[TD]6.0+[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Seismic[/TD]

[TD]6.0+[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Gravity[/TD]

[TD]6.0+[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[Jesrad]

Mind that you can also do many of these experiments flying low and high. Also the seismic readings are impossible in the water.

[KerbMav]

Mind that you can also do many of these experiments flying low and high. Also the seismic readings are impossible in the water.

Flying over KSC - which this thread is about - will give you flying over Kerbins's shores though.

[meyerweb]

KerbMav said:

Flying over KSC - which this thread is about - will give you flying over Kerbins's shores though.

This is actually about the surface-level science grind, not the flyover. Like r4pt0r , I dislike the grind, but was wondering what the total payoff might be. Thanks to LittleBlueGaming, I know the answer is “A LOT”. I still won’t do the actual grind, but what I may do is install ForScience!, drive around KSC for half an hour vacuuming up points, and then uninstall ForScience!

If I ever decide to get into mod authoring, my trainer will probably be called something like “KSC Science Team”, which will run all those surface-level experiments for you as you obtain each relevant science part and mark the science activities as done. Or else I’ll get lazy and submit a mod request over on the add-on forums. Actually, let’s be honest, it’ll probably be that.

Edited December 12, 2015 by meyerweb
Cleaned up forum migration errors (Unicode and hyperlinking were both botched—sigh)

[EtherDragon]

When I get high enough in career mode to make a research Rover, one of the first things I'll do to test it is drive around the whole KSC and get all that Science!

[KerbMav]

This is actually about the surface-level science grind, not the flyover.

Eh, yes, that was what I intended to say, but monday made my words all wrong.

When I get high enough in career mode to make a research Rover, one of the first things I'll do to test it is drive around the whole KSC and get all that Science!

To then put these experiments into a rocket and load their data into a space station before finally returning them for the original science value.

Edited June 1, 2015 by KerbMav

[SAI Peregrinus]

Eh, yes, that was what I intended to say, but monday made my words all wrong.

To then put these experiments into a rocket and load their data into a space station before finally returning them for the original science value.

Or just a science lab rover with solar panels on. Ideally a VTOL so you can get the really finicky stuff like on top of the water tower.

[Terwin]

So long as you are touching the structure with your vehicle, you should get the science for that building's biome

Also, you can only get most of that science once you have upgraded your buildings to level 3.

When I am just a bit away from some new tech I want for my next mission I will often throw together a 'science rover', earliest ones include the fixed gear, the basic jet engine, one fuel tank, a pod rotated for easy access(sideways as down-facing does not always let me out), and at least one of every experiment I currently have access to.

Just drive with a scientist to collect/re-set each experiment in each biome and stow it in the capsule.

apply the brakes when touching the building and collect all your data.

(I often had the driver get out and push the rover backwards away from the building so I could get to the next one)

[LittleBlueGaming]

Or just a science lab rover with solar panels on. Ideally a VTOL so you can get the really finicky stuff like on top of the water tower.

Problem is, you only get 10% of the data value for loading stuff onto a lab landed on Kerbin.

[problemecium]

"Negligible?" Nooo...

Each experiment seems like it's worthless, but bring a few copies of each and go on a tour of the Space Center and you'll find there's literally hundreds of points locked away within. This mission was simply to gather reports and surface samples from the various R&D buildings.

[Joonatan1998]

What happens to KSC "biomes" when you upgrade your buildings?

Do they remain the same or do they change?

If they do change, are some "biomes" only on lower-tier buildings?

[r4pt0r]

"Negligible?" Nooo...

http://i.imgur.com/gv5f2aa.png

Each experiment seems like it's worthless, but bring a few copies of each and go on a tour of the Space Center and you'll find there's literally hundreds of points locked away within. This mission was simply to gather reports and surface samples from the various R&D buildings.

Still grindier than a combo on "Tony Hawks Pro Skater"

[wumpus]

So long as you are touching the structure with your vehicle, you should get the science for that building's biomeAlso, you can only get most of that science once you have upgraded your buildings to level 3.When I am just a bit away from some new tech I want for my next mission I will often throw together a 'science rover', earliest ones include the fixed gear, the basic jet engine, one fuel tank, a pod rotated for easy access(sideways as down-facing does not always let me out), and at least one of every experiment I currently have access to.Just drive with a scientist to collect/re-set each experiment in each biome and stow it in the capsule.apply the brakes when touching the building and collect all your data.(I often had the driver get out and push the rover backwards away from the building so I could get to the next one)

WARNING: If you do this, your focus orb gets rotated around with your controls. I tried this and crashed a lot, then gave up and used a straight capsule. Note that the new-fangled "scampering kerbals" make getting back into the cockpit much easier.My recommendation would be to run a quick grind once you have the following:basic aircraft (for the wheels and engine)soil samples (upgrade science building to level 2): soil samples return the highest science of any experimentSC9000jr (probably the next biggest return)- the thermometer should be available right around there (maybe after a quick "science dance" on the runway).- the barometer is further down the tech tree. If it matters, try adding up the science gained and then "recover vessel" and adding it. Don't expect much more science, and you probably have higher priority unlocks instead.[apparently leveling Bill by sending him to orbit has no effect].The grind is long and boring (that "science dance" gets old fast, and a land jet is clumsy). You do get a lot of science, and a lot of it when the contracts seem to involve testing gear at silly altitudes/speeds. It lets you move on to the Mun fast, probably much faster than doing it via missions.

[problemecium]

^ What's wrong with a chair? o_O

And regarding upgrades, the biomes add up, so you can, for example, access only the Small Lab and the Main Building at R&D tiers one and two, and in tier three they remain there and are joined by six or seven other building "biomes".

[ouyin2000]

Dome anyone have a complete list of which biomes exist for each building at each level?

[Waxing_Kibbous]

+1 to the person using ForScience to do the dirty work in this task- ever since I stopped using FS I don't do the KSC grind unless I need a few sci-points here and there.

[wumpus]

It should be fairly easy to compute from the wiki (and it isn't all that much).  It also isn't terribly meaningful:

To get *all* the science in KSC you need to upgrade all the buildings to level 3 (might be one or two that don't need it, but budget for all of them), then enough science to unlock all the measuring instruments.  By this time you can do nearly the same thing on Minmus and get some real science returns.

You have to ask yourself:

How many times am I going to do this?

Is it really worth it to do the full KSC sweep after everything needed is unlocked?

Is there some time when I just need a little more science and can build a science buggy to pick up the local science (even if there is a lot left to be unlocked)?  Do I want to do it again to get the rest?

 

Granted: this is from someone who has three copies of nearly all the KSC science collected in mark 1 capsules waiting to be sent to Minmus science base (not looking forward to the transfer climb).  After doing the grind I can't recommend it at all.  Go do some landings for real science.

[Geschosskopf]

13 hours ago, ouyin2000 said:

Dome anyone have a complete list of which biomes exist for each building at each level?

At Level 1, you only get 1 per building:  9 total

At Level 2, you only get 1 per building:  9 total.  HOWEVER, these are the same biomes as in level 1, so unless you've unlocked new experiments since then, you can't get any more science from the buildings if you already did them in level 1.

At Level 3, you get a few more:

• 1 for each main building:  9 (again, same biomes as in level 1 and level 2)
• 1 for each tracking station antenna:  3
• 1 for the flagpole at the astronaut complex (but not the launchpad):  1
• 1 each for the tanks beside the runway near the SPH:  2
• 1 for the round tank between the VAB and SPH:  1
• 1 for the Mk 1 pod memorial:  1
• There might be a couple others but not many.  The runway, launchpad, admin, mission control, and R&D don't grow extra biomes IIRC, so call level 3 a total of 17

As @wumpus says, doing all the KSC biomes at level 3 is not worth the time and trouble because by then, the amount of science you get for this is utterly insignificant compared to the cost of the remaining tech tree nodes.  The only time KSC biomes provide significant science compared to the current cost of tech tree nodes is very early in the game at level 1.  By the time you've upgraded everything to level 2 (and even assuming you HAVEN'T already done the buildings in level 1), doing the KSC biomes will get you maybe 1 node.

So why does level 3 have all these biomes that are effectively useless and worthless?  It's a relic of the KSP development process.  The KSC biomes were created prior to when upgrading buildings became a feature.  Back then, level 3 was all there was, so all those biomes were there at the start of a new career game.  And the small, "starter" airplane wheels and jet engine didn't exist yet, either, so you couldn't build a rover until about mid-way into the tech tree.  Thus, you pretty much had to walk all around KSC doing EVA reports and surface samples.  Still, if you were willing to put in that time and effort, you could get a nice science boost to kickstart your new career.  It was sort of a sop for peole playing on hard mode.

Then building upgrades came along and half the KSC biomes became unavailable until late in the game when they're meaningless.  But OTOH, we got the ability to make simple rovers much earlier in the game, so can now get several times the science per KSC biome than on foot, meaning we can now get more science from KSC when it still means something.  Plus we now have many more altitude/speed/distance milestones short of space than before,  So the need to have lots of KSC biomes isappeared, which is probably why more haven't ever been added to level 2.

Anyway, enough history.  Messing with KSC biomes is only really worthwhile when your tech tree nodes cost no more than 150 points.  Then you can get several nodes in 1 go with a KSC science rover.  But if your remaining nodes cost 300, a trip around KSC will get you 1 at most, mabye just a fration of 1.  Might be useful if you really need to get 1 more node before you next mission, but otherwise no.  And if your nodes cost 550 or more, don't bother.

[Terwin]

I would disagree that roving around the KSC at level 3 is not useful, you just need the correct scientific equipment.

In particular a class A asteroid can be carried to each building and area, gathering 60 science for each asteroid report, giving over 1800 science plus any collected by other instruments.

As an added bonus, I believe you can do this with every asteroid you successfully land and carry around KSC, not just the first one.

I would not consider 1800+ science to be trivial, even after upgrading all buildings to level 3.

[Geschosskopf]

 

1 hour ago, Terwin said:

I would disagree that roving around the KSC at level 3 is not useful, you just need the correct scientific equipment.

In particular a class A asteroid ........

I would not consider 1800+ science to be trivial, even after upgrading all buildings to level 3.

LOL!!!  That's hilarious.  Great way to game the game

Can you still even do this?  Last time I tried landing asteroids, they always burned up almost instantly upon touching the air.  That was back in 1.0.4 so things might be different now.

But anyway, assuming this is still possible, is there any reason other than "mulch and giggles" for doing this?  1800 science isn't insignificant even when all remaining nodes cost 1000, but it's still small compared to what you can get from a multi-biome Mun trip by then, which takes rather less time, effort, and imagination.