The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge - 1.0 to 1.3

[sdj64]

@Ripper2900 Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 2!  Your modular design was very simple and effective and you made good use of the ISRU.  Good thinking to put the Tylo stage on top to save your lander.

 

2 hours ago, Foxxonius Augustus said:

@sdj64 I have some questions about restricted mods and mod use. Having gone back and read the thread I found that your concern with Tantares was the low mass of crew pods. I was wondering if that meant that I could use it in my attempt if I didn't use Tantares crew pods? Alternately could I use Tantares crew pods if I added inert mass to make up the difference? If so could that inert mass (I was thinking of structural plates) be legally clipped into the pod they were making up the mass for? I also wanted to bring up the use of Bluedog Design Bureau. Although a great mod all by itself, I ask because the BDB Saturn V is almost ready and I was hoping to use it as part of the Jool-5 crossover challenge portion of the Apollo Applications Program.

As I have said before, I don't like to ban parts on a per-part basis.  Tantares will remain banned for now.

Bluedog Design Bureau looks good, but the current download (I got it from Spacedock today) doesn't have the Saturn V, only the Saturn 1B.  Let me know when it is updated and I'll take a look at the new parts.

 

10 hours ago, Nefrums said:

As I have run out of fun things to do in KSP I have started design on another Jool 5 mission.

I will be using KScale64      Planets have 6.4 times bigger radius and ~41 times the mass => surface gravity is the same.

This makes things "a bit" harder... 

dV requirements will be through the roof.  (about 2.5 times more than normal)

I have successfully tested a ~13km/s dV Tylo lander but Laythe is troublesome,  Just surviving reentry is provning very difficult and then I need around 10km/s dV to get from Laythe surface to a mothership in high elliptical orbit.

Good luck!  Will you be using any part mods to help you in your next feat of greatness, or are you going all stock?  Any ISRU?

[Nefrums]

@sdj64

I have installed almost all of the part mods on the allowed list.  But I don't plan on using ISRU.

Laythe lander is done now, the inflatable heatshild is really good. 

[Foxxonius Augustus]

@sdj64 Thanks for the quick reply! I'll make sure to post or PM when BDB makes it's full release. On another note, any chance you might revive the Eve Rocks Challenge the same way you have for Jool-5?

Edited September 6, 2016 by Foxxonius Augustus

[Nefrums]

I have created a thread in the mission reports section: Jool 5 on a bigger scale

[blub01]

Some mods I'd like to use that aren't currently on the list:

 - Infernal Robotics

 - b9 procedural wings

 - eva struts (adds a single part that's basically just a strut connector that can be connected/disconnected by a kerbal on eva)

Are these allowed or not? (also, what about the other USI mods?)
 

 

EDIT: Also, what do you mean with "science increasing strategies"?

Edited September 8, 2016 by blub01

[sdj64]

51 minutes ago, blub01 said:

Some mods I'd like to use that aren't currently on the list:

 - Infernal Robotics

 - b9 procedural wings

 - eva struts (adds a single part that's basically just a strut connector that can be connected/disconnected by a kerbal on eva)

Are these allowed or not? (also, what about the other USI mods?)

EDIT: Also, what do you mean with "science increasing strategies"?

Yes, I'll add those mods to the list.  There are no engines and stuff in them so there shouldn't be an unfair advantage.

Looking at the strategies, there are none that increase recovered science so I don't really know what I was thinking there.  

 

And now, the long-awaited second thing that may or may not go in my future Jool 5 Jeb's level mission party pile of parts.  A rover!  Which also folds with stock hinges sort of like the plane I posted a while back!  But it's 91 parts, so it may have to be scrapped for a solution that my computer will hate me less for.  The mothership is in progress and it's already about 350 parts without any vehicles in it.  I can probably go up to 500 with stuff and still have an okay experience.

Spoiler

Starting folded

Ready to Roll

Good suspension and stability

Folding back up

 

[blub01]

1 hour ago, sdj64 said:

Yes, I'll add those mods to the list.  There are no engines and stuff in them so there shouldn't be an unfair advantage.

Looking at the strategies, there are none that increase recovered science so I don't really know what I was thinking there.  

 

And now, the long-awaited second thing that may or may not go in my future Jool 5 Jeb's level mission party pile of parts.  A rover!  Which also folds with stock hinges sort of like the plane I posted a while back!  But it's 91 parts, so it may have to be scrapped for a solution that my computer will hate me less for.  The mothership is in progress and it's already about 350 parts without any vehicles in it.  I can probably go up to 500 with stuff and still have an okay experience.

  Reveal hidden contents

Starting folded

Ready to Roll

Good suspension and stability

Folding back up

 

well, IR adds a part that allows you to take surface samples without kerbals.

EDIT: oh, and could you sort the list of allowed mods alphabetically? might make checking against the mods you currently have installed easier.

Edited September 8, 2016 by blub01

[Nefrums]

is the Taurus HCV mod really allowed?

The 3.5 m nuke is seriously overpowered, better isp and more than twice the twr of the normal nerv.

 

[sdj64]

 

4 minutes ago, Nefrums said:

is the Taurus HCV mod really allowed?

The 3.5 m nuke is seriously overpowered, better isp and more than twice the twr of the normal nerv.

I don't think it's twice?  550kN/15tons = 36.6, and the standard nuke is 60kN/3tons = 20.  The ISP is close, 850 vs 800.  For a mothership, low TWR is easy to overcome and the mass of the engines is usually a small part of the total mass, but if someone ends up abusing them (like making a single stage Tylo lander?) I'll reconsider it. 

[Firemetal]

I have a 467 ton beast in the VAB. I can try and launch it into orbit in one rocket or two. The problem is it might flex when I activate the engines. Taking the whole thing into orbit on its own would be really tough, but getting it into orbit with two rockets poses the threat of wobble.

But anyway the plan is to get to Jool, use a Tylo/Laythe gravity assist to get into orbit, then release an SSTO to go to Laythe and then back to rendezvous with the mothership, a expendable astro explorer (an interplanetary exploration vehicle I use in certain places) and a tug carrying a Tylo lander. The astro explorer might not be able to land on Vall due to low TWR but hopefully the rest of the Tylo lander will still have fuel left to land there if it fails.

I might give up, try to go small and then give up, or just find a way to get through these problems and then fail and give up so don't count on me getting this done.  

[Nefrums]

@Firemetal Try the Kerbal Joint Reinforcement mod, it helps with the wobble.

 

Here is a small teaser of my ongoing mission.  A 340t mothership cursing at 6000 m/s in LKO:

Full progress report: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/147173-jool-5-on-a-bigger-scale/ and here http://imgur.com/a/BiSNM

 

[Firemetal]

2 hours ago, Nefrums said:

@Firemetal Try the Kerbal Joint Reinforcement mod, it helps with the wobble.

 

Okay I will. Thanks!  

[Firemetal]

Ok... I hyper edited the whole thing to orbit without struts connecting Tylo tug & Astro Explorer to Mother ship and Laythe SSTO. It didn't flex very much but if it does while I'm flying the mission, I will have to download KJR.

I have a rocket that can barely carry the mothership & Laythe SSTO to orbit. This rocket though has had some issues. First there was a staging mess-up and then it crashed the game midflight. Hopefully though I can carry it to orbit, then carry AE & Tylo Tug into orbit and dock it to the mother ship. This is going to be tough. :/

Here are some pictures of launching the mothership/LaytheSSTO.

Spoiler

(Stress testing the flex, no issues)

 

(Trying to launch to orbit)

I will keep trying to do this. It is still looking good so far.  

[TheSaint]

46 minutes ago, Firemetal said:

Ok... I hyper edited the whole thing to orbit without struts connecting Tylo tug & Astro Explorer to Mother ship and Laythe SSTO. It didn't flex very much but if it does while I'm flying the mission, I will have to download KJR.

I have a rocket that can barely carry the mothership & Laythe SSTO to orbit. This rocket though has had some issues. First there was a staging mess-up and then it crashed the game midflight. Hopefully though I can carry it to orbit, then carry AE & Tylo Tug into orbit and dock it to the mother ship. This is going to be tough. :/

Here are some pictures of launching the mothership/LaytheSSTO.

  Hide contents

(Stress testing the flex, no issues)

 

(Trying to launch to orbit)

I will keep trying to do this. It is still looking good so far.  

If you're having problems with getting it into orbit because of mass, try flying it into orbit unfueled and then flying fuel tankers to fill it up once it is there. 

[Firemetal]

Just now, TheSaint said:

If you're having problems with getting it into orbit because of mass, try flying it into orbit unfueled and then flying fuel tankers to fill it up once it is there. 

Good idea. I will try this but I think the rocket works.

[Firemetal]

Beginning mission. Logs can be found here.

[GwynJHawke]

I wonder, but has anyone ever looked into how the order of planetary vists affects fuel efficiency? I was looking into hitting Tylo first, followed by Layth, and then Vail. Has anyone else thought this out or did the math?

[Firemetal]

Ok I've landed on all the moons! Just gotta get all three kerbals back now. I made quite a unique flight plan. Again the link is here.

[Nefrums]

9 hours ago, GwynJHawke said:

I wonder, but has anyone ever looked into how the order of planetary vists affects fuel efficiency? I was looking into hitting Tylo first, followed by Layth, and then Vail. Has anyone else thought this out or did the math?

It is best to discard the heavy landers first. That is do Laythe and Tylo first.

I usually do Laythe first as you can get from Jool intercept to Laythe orbit for free (gravity assist from Tylo into Jool orbit with PE close to Laythe orbit and then aerobrake at Laythe).

Laythe -> Tylo transfer can be done for 10-20 m/s dV.  By using a gravity assist from Vall to match Tylo orbit the dV required to get into Tylo orbit can be reduced from ~100 to ~10 m/s.

[Nefrums]

I have now completed the challenge on level 1 in the KScale64 Kerbol system.

http://imgur.com/a/BiSNM

Approximate dV used: 52 000 m/s....

Kerbin ascent:  7000 m/s

LKO -> Laythe : 5500 m/s

Laythe Landing: 8000 m/s

Laythe -> Tylo: 70 m/s

Tylo landing: 2100+13000+2100=17200 m/s

Tylo -> Vall: 60 m/s

Vall Landing: 4500 m/s

Vall -> Pol: 500 m/s

Pol landing: 900 m/s

Pol -> Bop: 1000 m/s

Bop landing: 1400 m/s

Bop -> Kerbin: 6000 m/s

 

Mods used:  All allowed part packs was installed, KER, MechJeb, Joint Reinforcement,Precise Node, KSkale64 

Edited September 13, 2016 by Nefrums

[Firemetal]

Ahh damn. I finished the mission and just now looked at the rules. Most of my picutres don't have the interface showing and I almost never use the resource tab. Does this disqualify me?

[sdj64]

8 hours ago, Nefrums said:

I have now completed the challenge on level 1 in the KScale64 Kerbol system.

http://imgur.com/a/BiSNM

Approximate dV used: 52 000 m/s....

Kerbin ascent:  7000 m/s

LKO -> Laythe : 5500 m/s

Laythe Landing: 8000 m/s

Laythe -> Tylo: 70 m/s

Tylo landing: 2100+13000+2100=17200 m/s

Tylo -> Vall: 60 m/s

Vall Landing: 4500 m/s

Vall -> Pol: 500 m/s

Pol landing: 900 m/s

Pol -> Bop: 1000 m/s

Bop landing: 1400 m/s

Bop -> Kerbin: 6000 m/s

 

Mods used:  All allowed part packs was installed, KER, MechJeb, Joint Reinforcement,Precise Node, KSkale64 

That's ridiculous.

Congratulations Nefrums, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 6.4!  (actually Level 1 but it's so much more impressive than that).  The little radial reaction wheel seems like a surprise MVP (most valuable part!) because it makes all of those tiny final stages that much lighter.  I also see lots of VX series 2 engines.  It was interesting to see what you did with reentry when the speeds are so high and the rules don't exactly account for balance with a rescaled system.  It was impressive to see the efficiency and arrangement of everything, especially the landing on Tylo.

 

4 hours ago, Firemetal said:

Ahh damn. I finished the mission and just now looked at the rules. Most of my picutres don't have the interface showing and I almost never use the resource tab. Does this disqualify me?

Yeah, unfortunately there is not enough information here to score your submission.  Also, your Astro Explorer has a clipped nuke engine.  I would have probably let the clipping go since it's a lot of work to redo a Jool 5 for such a little thing, but you should fix it if you're going to attempt it again to take screenshots with the resource tab open or at least the interface visible.  Overall a nice mission though, I liked the configuration of everything put together and how the Astro Explorer was able to land on all three small moons without refueling.

[Firemetal]

1 hour ago, sdj64 said:

That's ridiculous.

Congratulations Nefrums, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 6.4!  (actually Level 1 but it's so much more impressive than that).  The little radial reaction wheel seems like a surprise MVP (most valuable part!) because it makes all of those tiny final stages that much lighter.  I also see lots of VX series 2 engines.  It was interesting to see what you did with reentry when the speeds are so high and the rules don't exactly account for balance with a rescaled system.  It was impressive to see the efficiency and arrangement of everything, especially the landing on Tylo.

 

Yeah, unfortunately there is not enough information here to score your submission.  Also, your Astro Explorer has a clipped nuke engine.  I would have probably let the clipping go since it's a lot of work to redo a Jool 5 for such a little thing, but you should fix it if you're going to attempt it again to take screenshots with the resource tab open or at least the interface visible.  Overall a nice mission though, I liked the configuration of everything put together and how the Astro Explorer was able to land on all three small moons without refueling.

Aww man. Redoing it? I might do it in 1.2 with telemetry turned off but that mission was a headache.

Ok then! I will do it again. I will fix the clipping too. Also the Astro explorer was going to land on all 3 of the small moons but the SSTO did Vall instead. Besides doing it again will give me something to do while waiting for 1.2.

Thanks! 

Edit: Actually, no. I do not want to do it again right now. First docking TT and AE in LKO is tedious, more than other docking scenarios. Second, the Mothership & SSTO launcher tends to crash my game a lot. And third, I've already done it once. I'm not doing the same thing again just to get a ribbon. Sorry, @sdj64, maybe in 1.2.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Firemetal

[GwynJHawke]

Finally finished designing my Command Module.  With it's built in supply of monoprop and Lf/Ox, it has a little over 2100 m/s of Delta V.  That should be more than enough to get it back to a safe orbit if anything goes horribly wrong in mid flight, and if not, plenty of fuel for a fuss free rendezvous with the Juno 5 mothership. Hopefully designing the mothership will go just as smoothly.

(Thank goodness I'm not trying to build a mother-in-law ship, cause that would never go well, ha ha ha ha......)

[DustInTheWind]

Quick question on clipping: Would this be acceptable?