[1.0.4]Civilian Population 1.7.5.1 (Update to 1.0.5 in Progress)

[Speadge]

hey, can you pls try to rework the 6x6 girder+core model?

the core reaches way over the girder which leads to z-clipping and unusable docking ports when attached to these nodes.

would be great.#thanks

[Cosmic_Farmer]

When are you you planning on the ground structures i suggested?

I think Wombat is still working on the ones he was doing. These things take time. As for me, I've had a bit of modding fatigue. It gets stressful when you don't know what's going wrong and have to try them out 50 times before they work. I'm getting back to it now, but I'm having to go back to the drawing board with my designs - they were a bit too wacky.

hey, can you pls try to rework the 6x6 girder+core model?

I have barely used those parts, to be honest, so I haven't looked at how well they are implemented. I'll have a look now, and see if they can be altered for the next release.

[Herr Doktor Strangemember]

Cosmic_Farmer I hear you about the mod fatigue, it does get annoying (polite word) when you keep doing the same thing over and over and over, then it get 'tweaked' and the process starts again. I don't know if this will help but thanks for your work on this mod, and seriously take break if needed, burnout on things you love to do is painful. Oh and Wombat thanks to you as well, seriously guys take bow, and deep breath if needed.

PS Is it done yet?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Cosmic_Farmer]

Thanks for the kind words, Herr Doctor. I've actually been taking a break from life in general for quite a while, and have been using this mod to get me used to having a project to work on again. I'm getting back to doing academic work, but will still have plenty of time for modding. Plus, I'm quite a way up (over? along?) the modders' learniing curve, so it's a lot easier than it was.

As for things being done, I've remodelled the 6x6 truss segments:

Not sure if people will prefer these over the older models. They're cleaner than the previous version, with internal supports, and a bit of extra visual detail. Most importantly, they take up less memory, the bare one at least would use less ram (I think), and I made them exactly 6m x 6m, so there should be no more clipping issues. (I swear the clipping through the floor in the picture is the launchpad's fault!)

[rabidninjawombat]

Thank you for the awesome mod. This, Near Future and USI are why I came back to this game. If you're considering a public release for (alpha/beta? whatever) USI-LS testing, I'd love to get my hands on it. I was just searching this thread for a MM plugin to swap to USI-LS... Just hoping that "part of the general download" and private testing aren't one in the same . Either way, thanks again and happy modding.

Sorry bout the delay Pholic. USI-LS integration isnt done as of yet. Ill get it uploaded ASAP, and ill make a post, as well as add it to the front page. My fault, been a busy 4th weekend, as well as having several days worth of overtime at work. Will get around to it shortly.

When are you you planning on the ground structures i suggested?

Daniel, I have some plans, as Cosmic_Farmer said, these things do take a while. Ill be sure to keep you updated with rough-ups when i get a chance.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for the kind words, Herr Doctor. I've actually been taking a break from life in general for quite a while, and have been using this mod to get me used to having a project to work on again. I'm getting back to doing academic work, but will still have plenty of time for modding. Plus, I'm quite a way up (over? along?) the modders' learniing curve, so it's a lot easier than it was.

As for things being done, I've remodelled the 6x6 truss segments:

http://i62.tinypic.com/f56oub.png

Not sure if people will prefer these over the older models. They're cleaner than the previous version, with internal supports, and a bit of extra visual detail. Most importantly, they take up less memory, the bare one at least would use less ram (I think), and I made them exactly 6m x 6m, so there should be no more clipping issues. (I swear the clipping through the floor in the picture is the launchpad's fault!)

Nice! Just saw the issue with the truss segments yesterday. (like you i hardly use said parts) and didn't notice the Z-clipping. Was loading it up in blender, to address it this afternoon, and youve already got a fix for it

Sorry bout the lack of response the last couple days, been a busy work weekend, If you wanna mail me the info for the info for the truss segment ill integrate it into a patch im prepping for tomorrow.

EDIT: Also edited that main post with a shoutout to you good sir as you've submitted a hell of a lot to this project!

Wrapping up all the new stuff youve send and what ive got for a patch tomorrow evening (or super late tonight if it turns out i cant sleept )

Edited July 8, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[rabidninjawombat]

Update: (looks like ill be getting some sleep afterall tonight. so patch tomorrow )

issue on the 6x6 girders fixed. (Cosmic, took the edits you sent, and made a few of my own edits. big thanks!) Also added a 2 way hub. Will texture the girder cores/hub tomorrow (reuses existing textures, no increase in memory usage) Also thinking about a L-shaped Core , if folks want one.

Also added in a CLS (Connected living spaces) config for the Core-Girders (for folks using CLS)

Hub is in the center.

Also, stock-alike CivPop inspired sturctural panels (in 2x2, 4x4, and 8x8 (not pictured) flavors) (these take up a grand total of 2kb worth of memory)

Edited July 8, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[Maraz]

Looks like a great mod ! I see that integration with USI LS is coming... do you have plans for stricter integration with MKS? E.g. I was thinking of building a whole colony town with MKS, but I reaalized I could not singly manage dozens of Kerbals... this is where your mod comes! E.g., could one think of larger MKS habitation modules that are not for single Kerbals, but for Civilian Population ? So a small MKS colony (with Power Delivery Unit and production of Machinery, Supplies, Fuel, etc) would serve a larger Civilian Population colony.

[Stealth17]

Hey! Been following this mod for a while now and just wanted to say that I'm very happy and so grateful that you guys are putting so much work into it. Thanks so much for that!

[Cosmic_Farmer]

I did think it might be good to add multi-way girder-hubs, and was going to mention CLS. I've started working on the 18x6 truss. Only needs a few more tweaks. Surface-dwellers may be pleased to know that I've also started work on a small pod house, inspired by one of the pictures I posted a while ago. I'm doing it as an alternative radially-attached 4-kerbal house, though I may resize it later.

Stealth17: Your appreciation is appreciated.

I had also thought about the possibility of adding more civilian functionality, but I haven't done any coding in KSP, so I wouldn't know where to begin. Anyway, here are some ideas:

Civilian ISRU: Some sort of refinery and maybe a small drilling module, or even a facility for creating small robots which could go out and gather resources (that one would be more interesting, but harder to implement). All fully controlled by the civilians, and requiring a certain number of civilians on the base. Basically, you set this up with power, and somewhere to gather resources, and the civvies build up resources, which you can then buy from them. If we got this working, it would be possible to include MKS configs, etc. which would allow civilians to manage a base by themselves.

Jobs for civilians: Have either a requirement, or an option, for civilians to staff various modules (including the space ports and farms). This could affect things like resource yield or power consumption (no need to keep robots running when a kerbal can do it). A working kerbal gets paid, which would negate their rent.

Making some of the modules require maintenance: this would be provided by employing a kerbal to work on the module, as above. Lack of maintenance would mean decreasing yields, possible waste of resources, etc.

Adding an option to the civilian docking ports to order in resources (there's a mod out there which does this already). Unlike the civvie ISRU, you could order from anywhere in the Kerbin system, but it would take time for the resources to arrive, based on distance from Kerbin.

All of those would be possible, but are pretty much pipe dreams right now.

[Vorg]

These big pannels, trusses, and other parts. Can they be put together using KIS/KAS and cranes with the winches?

[rabidninjawombat]

---mega snip---

All of those would be possible, but are pretty much pipe dreams right now.

Always happy for folks to keep tossing out ideas, ill see what i can work up

@Maraz- Closer integration with MKS is planned (MKS has been my go-to mod every since it came out) and my vision for this is to complement it closely, though i wont go to the point of requiring MKS for CivPop for folks who don't want MKS.

Especially that fact that you can recruit kerbals from the Civilians ,to avoid the atrocious kerbal recruitment costs:P

@Cosmic_Farmer- I like the idea of jobs/and or new facilities requiring certain number of civies to operate

As a side project im also trying to clean up the UI and in the near future(no exact time frame), i hope to implement a in game UI (via the toolbar button) to manage your Civies. Rather then them being just number in the part right click menu... Hopefully give them a bit more life and feel, if you know what i mean.

Edited July 8, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[Maraz]

@Maraz- Closer integration with MKS is planned (MKS has been my go-to mod every since it came out) and my vision for this is to complement it closely, though i wont go to the point of requiring MKS for CivPop for folks who don't want MKS.

Thanks a lot, that sounds good !

[rabidninjawombat]

1.7.1 Update: Structural Madness!

New in this update:

• Updated to the latest version of CRP (Community Resource Pack)
  
• Fixed issue with 6x6 Core Girder, Core length is now proper.
  

USI-LS Integration: If you are using USI-LS as opposed to TAC. All the parts should now adapt to the new resources.

USI Life Support Integration brought to your courtesy of:

(Small Note: Balance may be off on the Supplies production, more than welcome any feedback on the balance of the USI-LS production)

New Structural Parts!: Along with the original empty and Core Girder, there is now a T, X, and L junction. All the 6x6 girder parts were retextured, and new supports added in (thanks for the inspiration Cosmic_Farmer!)

Javascript is disabled. View full album

New Structural Panels as well

Edited July 9, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[daniel l.]

Whats the crash tolerance for those panels?

[rabidninjawombat]

Whats the crash tolerance for those panels?

80, same as the standard Squad Panels. (though, now that i thinking about that, ill bump it up slightly in the next patch, since they are a bit thicker)

So as not to double post:

Next on the agenda:

• As stated earlier, a closer supplementation to MKS/OKS (if installed) Adding some balanced production of specific MKS resources.
  
• Numbers Balancing and production pass. Sitting down with a BIG Calculator and a bottle of Tylenol, and doing a numbers pass on all the production to make sure they are realistic and balanced
  
• KIS Container? Current KIS containers are nice. But possibly a VERY LARGE high capacity one to go along with the rest of the large parts (Possibly in the current 6x6 girder format just showed above. )
  
• Larger Ground dwelling- (to complement the Large farm Biodome) You can currently use biodomes along with the surface attached houses, but a large all on one ground dwelling will be nice.
  
• DDS Conversion of all textures - Yes i know this should be done by now having a few issues with certain textures cooperating, but its on the way.
  

Longer Range Goals:

• Custom CivPop UI - Integrated into the Stock toolbar. Currently doing some research on implementing this (not a lot of experiance building UI's in unity ) But looking to make it an easy way to manage civilian population instead of just in the right click action menu. Should also help bring more life into the civies rather then having them just be numbers
  
• Civilian Jobs/Specializes. - More brainstorming on ways to bring more life into civilians roles. Having to have specific types of civilians to operate different Modules (farmers/botonists for biodomes, etc etc) And using the already avalible University Part to train Civies.
  

Edited July 10, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[daniel l.]

Wow sounds cool, how about a addition to the stock Knowledge base that when you click on a planet it will show a population count (Excluding those living in orbit as i'd consider them to be living in space and not on a planet) as well as a total population for all kerbalkind, That would be a variable value set to a default of a certain number starting with kerbin, And the civilians you take to space with you detract from the population of kerbin so dont waste kerbals!

[rabidninjawombat]

Wow sounds cool, how about a addition to the stock Knowledge base that when you click on a planet it will show a population count (Excluding those living in orbit as i'd consider them to be living in space and not on a planet) as well as a total population for all kerbalkind, That would be a variable value set to a default of a certain number starting with kerbin, And the civilians you take to space with you detract from the population of kerbin so dont waste kerbals!

Probably a little out of scope, for what im trying to do now.. but it is a great idea! Something to keep in mind once i have a UI built.

[daniel l.]

Mybe a little off topic but i'd like your opinion on this mod im making

http://www./download/dh7q5r82u4eelcu/Cubeships_.1.zip

it adds minecraft style ship construction.

[Papa_Joe]

Update: (looks like ill be getting some sleep afterall tonight. so patch tomorrow )

...

Also added in a CLS (Connected living spaces) config for the Core-Girders (for folks using CLS)

...

Awesome! I've updated the CLS OP and the CLS Wiki to reflect your inclusion of a CLS configs in your mod. Mod looks awesome!

Edited July 10, 2015 by Papa_Joe

[rabidninjawombat]

Number Balancing Topics: TAC numbers should be fairly close, USI-LS numbers are probably out of line, but i defaulted to the high side.

So im sitting down with the numbers today and gonna try to get them all in line.

Starting with the USI-LS number first (Cause they are the easiest ) In USI-LS Kerbonaughts consume pretty much 1 Supply per kerbal per day. Given that, I'd be setting Civilian consumption to .5 supplies per civilian per day.

Basing this roughly on the military MRE. (Meal-Ready to Eat). The Militarily recommended daily allowance is 3, and they roughly all sit at about 1250 calories each(probably more if you were like me and traded to get more peanut butter:P) So that's roughly 3750 calories a day. Your average civilian is recommended 1700-2000 calories per day, So roughly half that. You'd imagine your average Kerbonaut would be doing alot of strenuous activities, similar to a solider, so thus is my logic.

Given the USI numbers , Ill grab the consumption of TAC-LS resources per day/per kerbal. And half that for each civilian, to make things easy.

Production on the Biospheres and bio-dome will be patched to their requisite size housing (small to small, etc ), with the housed Kerbonauts and cilvians, along with a small excess.

All these will be popped into the next patch. Enjoy the excess production while you can

Feedback is welcome!

[Speadge]

New in this update:

Fixed issue with 6x6 Core Girder, Core length is now proper.

Thank you VERY much :)

edit:

little hint:

u turned the model 90° around, so everyone using it already will have ships that look... awfull :-(

those cores were horizontal aligned before updating

just for me to know: will you change it again or shall i live with the new orientation?

ahh.. and the nodes are inverted

name = truss18x18NoCore
node_stack_bottom = 6, -9, 0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 3
node_stack_right = -9,6,0,1,0,0,3

that does not fit well

should be (i think, not sure):

name = truss18x18NoCore
node_stack_bottom = 6, -9, 0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 3
node_stack_right = -9,6,0,-1,0,0,3

the nodes of this girder were inverted in last version as well. i did a "private fix" back then

Edited July 10, 2015 by Speadge
screenshot

[rabidninjawombat]

Thank you VERY much :)

edit:

little hint:

u turned the model 90° around, so everyone using it already will have ships that look... awfull :-(

just for me to know: will you change it again or shall i live with the new orientation?

ahh.. and the nodes are inverted

Huh.. they shouldnt have..didnt make any changes to the config/or model of the single core one(other than reduce the size of the core. post up a screen shot so i can see whats going on and ill put up a hotfix.

[micr0wave]

My Biodome shrinked

the dome is the rootpart (i think) which seems to be the common issue (had that in 0.9 too and also with the MKS Kontainers)

[rabidninjawombat]

My Biodome shrinked

http://i.imgur.com/DK1Fiev.jpg

the dome is the rootpart (i think) which seems to be the common issue (had that in 0.9 too and also with the MKS Kontainers)

Hrmm. What version did you update from microwave? There was a small change to the biodome, but that was a couple patchs ago. Was not touched in this patch.

And yes. Yea ive had the same issue with MKS Kontainers.... it seems to be either a stock bug or one associated with tweakscale (and its the rootpart that shrinks )

Thank you VERY much :)

edit:

little hint:

u turned the model 90° around, so everyone using it already will have ships that look... awfull :-(

http://i.imgur.com/1JiPcOW.png

those cores were horizontal aligned before updating

just for me to know: will you change it again or shall i live with the new orientation?

ahh.. and the nodes are inverted

name = truss18x18NoCore
node_stack_bottom = 6, -9, 0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 3
node_stack_right = -9,6,0,1,0,0,3

that does not fit well

should be:

name = truss18x18NoCore
node_stack_bottom = 6, -9, 0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 3
node_stack_right = -9,6,0,-1,0,0,3

the nodes of this girder were inverted in last version as well. i did a "private fix" back then

Will re-orientate the 6x6 girders in a hotfix in a few minutes. putting together a patch right now

Thanks for pointing out the 18x18 girder.. Will put that in as well. Didnt touch it last patch.. but looks like it was an over-site.

Thats one heck of a Construct by the way! would love to see a screen shot when its finished

Edited July 10, 2015 by rabidninjawombat

[Speadge]

My Biodome shrinked

the dome is the rootpart (i think) which seems to be the common issue (had that in 0.9 too and also with the MKS Kontainers)

then its the tweakscale-thing. its "just" camera issue on quickloads