The K Prize - 100% reusable spaceplane to orbit and back

[Stochasty]

The numbers shown in MechJeb for ihtoit's craft don't make sense for it to be an all LV-N craft; 320kN thrust and a TWR of 4.34? I only see that one engine, so either he's clipping parts (5 1/3 LV-Ns? That would put him over the 7.51t listed weight by itself, not to mention fractional engines being impossible. What else is in there for thrust?) or something else strange is going on.

The Nukjet spaceplane I made back in 0.18 was around 22 tons and had a TWR of 0.57 at takeoff and could only barely make orbit. It might not have been the most efficient possible craft, but I have difficulty believing a working nuclear-powered craft could be shrunk to this extent. I would love to see the craft file if I'm wrong about this.

[Fengist]

The numbers shown in MechJeb for ihtoit's craft don't make sense for it to be an all LV-N craft; 320kN thrust and a TWR of 4.34? I only see that one engine, so either he's clipping parts (5 1/3 LV-Ns? That would put him over the 7.51t listed weight by itself, not to mention fractional engines being impossible. What else is in there for thrust?) or something else strange is going on.

Oh come on man. It's a nuke. It can get anything to 35km in a minute and a half and not hardly use any fuel. The fact that I tried with a plane like his and it took me 5 1/2 minutes and ALL my fuel is because I'm a noob. And I screwed up. I couldn't find ANYTHING in stock parts that looks like what he has inside his wings.

I could be mistaken but doesn't Nova Punch have those really tiny SRB's?

[pa1983]

The numbers shown in MechJeb for ihtoit's craft don't make sense for it to be an all LV-N craft; 320kN thrust and a TWR of 4.34? I only see that one engine, so either he's clipping parts (5 1/3 LV-Ns? That would put him over the 7.51t listed weight by itself, not to mention fractional engines being impossible. What else is in there for thrust?) or something else strange is going on.

The Nukjet spaceplane I made back in 0.18 was around 22 tons and had a TWR of 0.57 at takeoff and could only barely make orbit. It might not have been the most efficient possible craft, but I have difficulty believing a working nuclear-powered craft could be shrunk to this extent. I would love to see the craft file if I'm wrong about this.

With a single engine NV-1 I hit 31Km+ and 550ms so a single nuke cant do it. As you say some boosters maybe. Would explain how the solar panels are mounted radially sense you cant do that to RCS tanks that I first though they where. Also it seems that RCS is used as propulsion not just maneuvering sens theres no other reason for so many RSC thrusters.

You can use mods I think but the rules say stock wings, stock engines so if he has boosters that are not stock its not valid for k-prize.

Any way not complaining. Just nice if people post more then one low res picture and maybe a short description of the craft so people can understand how it works,

Edited August 15, 2013 by pa1983

[glacierre]

If those are boosters and they are solid, then it would not be even completely refuellable. SSTO for flight number 1, and over. Title of the K prize says 100% reusable...

[pa1983]

You can reuse solid boosters. Hard yes but they are reusable.

[boolybooly]

Yes solid boosters can be used as long as they remain part of the craft and are not jettisoned. The assumption would be that you can replace the solid core.

[SpaceK531]

If I made a gantry capable of flipping a spaceplane on its end, could I do a vthl vehicle?

[boolybooly]

You could but it would be a gate crasher if it started the take off vertically. HTVL is within the rules though.

[Psycix]

Or a simple rocket thruster under the nose that flips it up.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Psycix

[ihtoit]

The numbers shown in MechJeb for ihtoit's craft don't make sense for it to be an all LV-N craft; 320kN thrust and a TWR of 4.34? I only see that one engine, so either he's clipping parts (5 1/3 LV-Ns? That would put him over the 7.51t listed weight by itself, not to mention fractional engines being impossible. What else is in there for thrust?) or something else strange is going on.

The Nukjet spaceplane I made back in 0.18 was around 22 tons and had a TWR of 0.57 at takeoff and could only barely make orbit. It might not have been the most efficient possible craft, but I have difficulty believing a working nuclear-powered craft could be shrunk to this extent. I would love to see the craft file if I'm wrong about this.

The only propulsion on that craft is that Super Atomic stapled to the back. The RCS tanks are there a: for balance and b: to force the nose up on takeoff. THERE IS NO OTHER MEANS OF PROPULSION.

Not knowing quite how to attach a .craft file, here's the text from the file:

http://justpaste.it/41gf

Edited August 20, 2013 by ihtoit
moved big block of text offsite per request

[ihtoit]

it does work, it's in mass production and is currently being considered for the next generation Royal Naval Supercarrier strike aircraft.

[ihtoit]

if I can find some decent screencap software I'll do a video from the runway to orbit.

[ihtoit]

As promised,

, from game start to confirmation of orbit. You'll probably notice that there are fewer solarpanels and they've moved to the wingtips. Purely a weight-saving measure, nothing else has changed. Edited August 18, 2013 by ihtoit

[vidboi]

As promised,

, from game start to confirmation of orbit.

Rules

1. The craft may not lose any parts in flight, no decoupling allowed.

2. The craft must lift off horizontally, reach orbit (PE > 70,000m) and land intact ready for 'refuelling'.

3. All fuel tanks, wings (lift generators) and engine parts must be stock, for fairness.

Congratulations, you managed to fail at failing the challenge...

p.s. Are you even using the current version of the game? (v0.21.1)

[ihtoit]

Congratulations, you managed to fail at failing the challenge...

p.s. Are you even using the current version of the game? (v0.21.1)

wait, which parts am I using that are not stock?

And if you'd actually looked at the video, you'd see that I'm using v0.20.

[Poppins]

I'm not particularly good at forums but here goes, my entry is the Wolfbullet:

And the 'flight in photos' and craft file are here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dwjtg9fdk8cf9xh/HwMruYfJWV

Nothing that special about it, just a nice all-purpose vehicle that I don't have to worry about sticking a rocket on. My initial aim was making it horizontal and vertical take-off and land capable with an orange tank (and atomic engines). It's got a few boosters to aid landing and on the non-challenge version I stick on those extra couple of atomics for space maneuvers. As long as you can get it to the end of the runway, it's not too bad to fly either. I'm thinking of draining the oxidizer on the runway and seeing how it far it can go round the planet

Still, kudos to all those clever chaps and chapettes who come up with all these other truly beautiful designs, it is nice to be astounded at least once every other page of this thread.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Poppins
Correction of photo address format

[pa1983]

RCS tanks are not stock that I can see. I dont have any that looks like that. They should count as fuel but not sure. They do contain fuel. There is no NV-1 with 320Kn trust, stock NV-1 has 60KN. I dont know what ISP that engine of yours have but stock is 800 in vacuum and 290 I think at sea level.

Landing gears are not stock but that should not count according to the rules but its safer to go all stock.

So yea its a fail. I tried your design with stock parts and it was a no go. Didn't come close to get in to orbit. Used to much fuel.

[glacierre]

wait, which parts am I using that are not stock?

And if you'd actually looked at the video, you'd see that I'm using v0.20.

I suggest you a clean reinstall, maybe you have changed parts and you don't even remember it. But the nuclear engine is blatantly non-stock, if you think that is the stock thrust you are going to discover a new (and quite harder) game.

[ihtoit]

I suggest you a clean reinstall, maybe you have changed parts and you don't even remember it. But the nuclear engine is blatantly non-stock, if you think that is the stock thrust you are going to discover a new (and quite harder) game.

that's entirely possible, I really don't remember what I've added (except Kethane and Mechjeb, and some structural stuff like the HOME pack). I've not adjusted anything I've added though to cheat my way into a single-engine single-tank SSTO, I wouldn't know how.

So.... Gatecrasher entry? I'll be happy with that.

Incidentally, I think I broke KSP when I did that capture with Camstudio, it keeps crashing now so I might well have to reinstall it. But not before I try and get a capture of my armed Spitfire spaceplane blowing the pogees out of a ground target and back up to orbit for a satellite kill

PS: the RCS tanks are the Parom singles, each hold 250u monoprop. They're from the Kosmos mod (as is the LED mounted on the port side of the nose).

Edited August 19, 2013 by ihtoit

[boolybooly]

ihtoit thanks for your entry and video, I have to agree with the others that I think you have inadvertantly used a mod nuclear engine and RCS fuel tanks, though the mod undercarriage and mechjeb are within the rules. I have linked you as a gate crasher as requested. If you try again with stock and succeed you have the option to remove the gate crasher entry or keep it in addition to joining the guest list. I only hope it doesnt confuse the bouncers

Could you do me a favour and edit your craft file post above by copying the text to http://justpaste.it/ submitting it and replacing the text with the link provided, all free, no cookies. Just makes the thread a bit neater, thanks.

Congratulations Poppins for completing the K Prize mission with a powerful looking and evidently effective design, Wolfbullet. I have been wondering how to get an orange tank into orbit myself and that is definitely food for thought. Thanks for the screenies and dropbox collection link. Welcome to the guest list, enjoy the party!

[Poppins]

Cheers boolybooly, will do!

[ihtoit]

ihtoit thanks for your entry and video, I have to agree with the others that I think you have inadvertantly used a mod nuclear engine and RCS fuel tanks, though the mod undercarriage and mechjeb are within the rules. I have linked you as a gate crasher as requested. If you try again with stock and succeed you have the option to remove the gate crasher entry or keep it in addition to joining the guest list. I only hope it doesnt confuse the bouncers

Could you do me a favour and edit your craft file post above by copying the text to http://justpaste.it/ submitting it and replacing the text with the link provided, all free, no cookies. Just makes the thread a bit neater, thanks.

Congratulations Poppins for completing the K Prize mission with a powerful looking and evidently effective design, Wolfbullet. I have been wondering how to get an orange tank into orbit myself and that is definitely food for thought. Thanks for the screenies and dropbox collection link. Welcome to the guest list, enjoy the party!

no problem, the edit's done.

Incidentally, I've done another Gatecrasher entry, this one should be a little bit recognisable... it is entirely stock with the exception of the engines.

. Edited August 20, 2013 by ihtoit

[boolybooly]

Thanks ihtoit, thread looks much easier to read now. X wing linked with a suitable quip in the gate crashers list ! Hope you dont mind.

Here is a mission to the Mün I ran recently. I have to point out it used concealed air intakes, inside the body of the craft, quite a lot actually (about 48), it was an effective way to get the heavy stock nuclear engines close enough to orbit that their meager 120 KN thrust could get the craft the rest of the way there. I have always taken the line that if its stock its in, and that includes concealed clipping and intake stacking and any bugs which crop up. It works both ways, where bugs destroy craft that is tough luck and where balance issues permit outlandish craft its perfectly permissable, it is up to the game's designers to consider whether they want it that way or not and is not for me to impose any kind of subjective aesthetic standard on the play of others. Part of our job here is as play testers, bringing these things to the attention of the developers.

So for the record I am stacking intakes!

[drewscriver]

A brief update on the Chalice Mk4; I forgot to mention, it is stock and not particularly airhogged (I did use a lot of radials, and practically every forward-facing fuselage has an intake, but no truss or clipped intakes). The download link (in case anyone wants it) is here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3333645/Chalice%20Mk4r.craft

Thanks for the discussion and suggestion, I replumbed the Mk4q (my previous version) to make Mk4r, which automatically burns fuel rear-to-front, preserving the center of gravity. I didn't have to do any fuel transfers on my latest flight.

Speaking of which, in pursuit of the utilitarian commendation: a 20T payload to orbit - gallery updated appropriately.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Also a few other fun pics of my various other SSTO escapades.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I also recently learned the importance of wing orientation, and that some of my wings just add drag. I'm a bit worried about upside wings lurking somewhere and generating downforce - is there a way to tell by looking?

Edited August 20, 2013 by drewscriver

[pa1983]

Thanks ihtoit, thread looks much easier to read now. X wing linked with a suitable quip in the gate crashers list ! Hope you dont mind.

Here is a mission to the Mün I ran recently. I have to point out it used concealed air intakes, inside the body of the craft, quite a lot actually (about 48), it was an effective way to get the heavy stock nuclear engines close enough to orbit that their meager 120 KN thrust could get the craft the rest of the way there. I have always taken the line that if its stock its in, and that includes concealed clipping and intake stacking and any bugs which crop up. It works both ways, where bugs destroy craft that is tough luck and where balance issues permit outlandish craft its perfectly permissable, it is up to the game's designers to consider whether they want it that way or not and is not for me to impose any kind of subjective aesthetic standard on the play of others. Part of our job here is as play testers, bringing these things to the attention of the developers.

So for the record I am stacking intakes!

I could not have sad it better my self.

And so little fuel the fuselage and jet tanks hold in general (compared to LOX/Fuel tanks) theres definitely enough space for some components inside there