[1.12.x] Heat Control - More radiators! (August 18, 2024)

[Hoddd9000]

Any tips on preventing heat buildup during timewarp? I can run a 800kW heat output reactor and a Charon thruster at full pelt until I run out of lithium without issues but time-warp causes the rads (VF-150, 900kW cap total) to heat up to 100% spontaneously, even with the reactor at 8% and engine off.

 

E: After further travel, it seems like the rad heat is just plain unpredictable at warp.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Hoddd9000

[Gilph]

Hi,

I just installed Heat Control in a 1.7 version and noticed the three surface radiators (YF-25, YF-75, YF-150) are installed into the Specialized Electrics CTT node. Can I assume they belong in the Advanced Heat Management node?

 

Edit1: Found the issue. The HeatControlCommunityTechTree.cfg overrides the stock values in the part cfg files. Under the Surface Radiator section:

@PART[radiator-surface-2]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree] should be: @PART[radiator-surface-25-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]

@PART[radiator-surface-3]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree] should be: @PART[radiator-surface-375-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]

@PART[radiator-surface-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree] should be: @PART[radiator-surface-125-1]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]

and they go into the Heat Management Systems node.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Gilph
found issue

[Nertea]

8 hours ago, Hoddd9000 said:

Any tips on preventing heat buildup during timewarp? I can run a 800kW heat output reactor and a Charon thruster at full pelt until I run out of lithium without issues but time-warp causes the rads (VF-150, 900kW cap total) to heat up to 100% spontaneously, even with the reactor at 8% and engine off.

 

E: After further travel, it seems like the rad heat is just plain unpredictable at warp.

What you're seeing is the reactor heat slowly bleeding out of the core plus the residual heat from the engine burn. When you go into higher timewarps, KSP can't understand large temperature gradients very well and starts doing stupid things. Radiators will pull more heat than exists, parts will spontaneously heat up to millions of degrees, heat will conduct in unpredictable ways, etc.

As long as the core heat system is working fine (which is mostly stable at high timewarps) everything should be ok with the reactor. That's what I mainly care about.

7 hours ago, Gilph said:

I just installed Heat Control in a 1.7 version and noticed the three surface radiators (YF-25, YF-75, YF-150) are installed into the Specialized Electrics CTT node. Can I assume they belong in the Advanced Heat Management node?

Uh sure it's be really nice if you could put this issue on GH so it doesn't get lost, I'm in the middle of some restock stuff and I don't want to lose my groove.

[Gilph]

36 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Uh sure it's be really nice if you could put this issue on GH so it doesn't get lost, I'm in the middle of some restock stuff and I don't want to lose my groove.

Done. Also included how to fix.

[Nertea]

Heat Control 0.4.12

•  Fixed wraparound surface radiators being in the wrong CTT node

[Kerbal101]

@Nertea Yay Heat Control for 1.8.1 is present on Space Dock, thank you for release!!

[Nertea]

Updated for KSP 1.9. Changes: 

• KSP 1.8
• Updated ModuleManager to 4.1.3
• Added Simplified Chinese localization (YoumuKon)

[Laie]

On 6/5/2015 at 6:37 AM, Nertea said:

This part pack [...] is designed primarily to dissipate and control heat from nuclear reactors

I hope you forgive me for saying so, but I'm a little underwhelmed in that regard. When it comes to core heat, the radiators from this pack are about three times as massive as stock items.

I find myself trading off vessel performance (dry mass) against game performance (part count) and more often than not, vessel performance wins: sticking lots of stock static radiators to the reactor itelf is by far the most mass-efficient solution.

[Nertea]

5 hours ago, Laie said:

I hope you forgive me for saying so, but I'm a little underwhelmed in that regard. When it comes to core heat, the radiators from this pack are about three times as massive as stock items.

I find myself trading off vessel performance (dry mass) against game performance (part count) and more often than not, vessel performance wins: sticking lots of stock static radiators to the reactor itelf is by far the most mass-efficient solution.

I don't think that's correct. All stock radiators have a base mass ratio of 1000 kW/t radiated energy. HC basic radiators have 1750 kW/t, and the large black ones have 2250 kW/t. Stock statics are even worse and don't even hit 1000 kW/t.
 

Part	Mass (t)	Heat Transfer (kW)	Ratio (kW/t)
Radiator Panel (large)	0.280	200	714
VR-270 'Tau' Heat Radiator	0.120	150	1250
XR-1800 High Temperature Heat Radiator	0.571	1000	1751

 

If you're seeing something else please go into detail. It's possible the balance spreadsheet I'm looking at is not up to date with ingame but that seems a little unlikely...

[Laie]

23 minutes ago, Nertea said:

If you're seeing something else please go into detail.

Hold on, I'm checking the Squad .cfg files, on the off chance that one of my favorite mods may have been patching the parts for years without me knowing it....
...nope. MM cache and Squad files show the same numbers:

part	mass	maxEnergyTransfer (cfg)	CoreHeatxFer (in-game, kW)	Core kW/mass
radPanelSm	0.02	2500	50	2500
radPanelEdge	0.03	7500	150	5000
radPanelLg	0.05	10000	200	4000
foldingRadSmall	0.05	2500	50	1000
foldingRadMed	0.25	12500	250	1000
foldingRadLarge	1	50000	1000	1000

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first three columns are lifted directly from the cfg. "Core Heat xFer" as reported in the game seems to be the configured "maxEnergyTransfer" divided by 50.

The "Max Cooling" number as reported in the game appears to be something entirely different... could it perhaps be calculated from the actual surface area and max. part temp? I don't know, but looks like it.

Anyway, your 280kg for the large radiator panel are off: it's only 50kg.

[Nertea]

13 minutes ago, Laie said:

The first three columns are lifted directly from the cfg. "Core Heat xFer" as reported in the game seems to be the configured "maxEnergyTransfer" divided by 50.

 

Yep. For some reason CoreHeat configuration is in kW*50. 

15 minutes ago, Laie said:

The "Max Cooling" number as reported in the game appears to be something entirely different... could it perhaps be calculated from the actual surface area and max. part temp? I don't know, but looks like it.

 

You're correct, max cooling is drag cube calculated surface area*Stefan-Boltzmann constant* T^4. It's effectively unused ingame.

19 minutes ago, Laie said:

Anyway, your 280kg for the large radiator panel are off: it's only 50kg.

Oof they're actually all off (the static ones). Apologies for that, but that's utterly ridiculous. The fixed radiators have 5x the mass ratio of the deployable ones. There's functionally no reason to ever use another radiator. - even with the localized cooling only, you can just spam them all over whatever unit you need with no penalty at all! 

Well, if you want to min/max to that degree, I can't really stop you. I'd have to bring all the things below 5000 kW/t, which would probably have the side effect of making all electric engines and nuclear power generation massively, massively OP from the current baseline.

Yet another example of awesome Squad balance....

[Laie]

5 minutes ago, Nertea said:

I'd have to bring all the things below 5000 kW/t,

Well, I was about to offer that I might provide a pull request if you gave me some guidance re: target values, but...

6 minutes ago, Nertea said:

which would probably have the side effect of making all electric engines and nuclear power generation massively, massively OP

...well yes, there's that.

[Nertea]

Updated for 1.10. Very pedestrian, no fixes needed. 

 

[Nicky21]

I'm getting some errors (no crash, just log spam) regarding the survace curved radiators in ksp 1.9.1 . I used tweakscale on them.

log:

https://easyupload.io/iqc1ut

 

[Nertea]

6 hours ago, Nicky21 said:

I'm getting some errors (no crash, just log spam) regarding the survace curved radiators in ksp 1.9.1 . I used tweakscale on them.

log:

https://easyupload.io/iqc1ut

 

I don't really support tweakscale, but these are all very basic parts, shouldn't be issues. 

Your log has a huge amount of junk in it, I'm not sure what I'm looking for here. I'd suggest posting on the TS thread if this was generated in response to a scaling effect or something.

 

[LUCINNDA]

Hi all. I have a problem and i think perhaps some one here could help me. im using a nuclear salt water engine, its produce 2Gw heat. My only chance is to use 8 Graphene clover radiators and upscalig it x 4, but my problem is that radiators deploy it self every time i load the vessel. So i cant undeploy it and land cos if a jump to other vessel, when i back to the NSW vessel, the radiators appear deployed and it crash with surface and destoy the entire vessel. 

However, perhaps you colud find me other way to cool this 2Gw using other cool sistem. 

[Nertea]

33 minutes ago, LUCINNDA said:

Hi all. I have a problem and i think perhaps some one here could help me. im using a nuclear salt water engine, its produce 2Gw heat. My only chance is to use 8 Graphene clover radiators and upscalig it x 4, but my problem is that radiators deploy it self every time i load the vessel. So i cant undeploy it and land cos if a jump to other vessel, when i back to the NSW vessel, the radiators appear deployed and it crash with surface and destoy the entire vessel. 

However, perhaps you colud find me other way to cool this 2Gw using other cool sistem. 

Some of the words there sound like KSPI-E, might want to ask there. I don't support tweakscale in any way shape or form.

[LUCINNDA]

Twekscale is not the fail reason, the fail persist without TwS. Graphene clover radiators auto deploy it self on original scale. 

[Nertea]

I don't have a part called graphene clover radiator though. 

[Nertea]

Super boring, marked for KSP 1.11

[KSPrynk]

5 hours ago, Nertea said:

Super boring, marked for KSP 1.11

@Nertea, I just downloaded this again to start playing with System Heat.  While picking through, I noticed the XR-150 High Temp Radiator (smallest in XR group) has a higher mass than the larger XR-1000 and XR-1500.  Given its size, relative to XR-1000, it looks like it's off by a factor of 10.  Was this just a decimal place typo?

[Nertea]

2 minutes ago, KSPrynk said:

@Nertea, I just downloaded this again to start playing with System Heat.  While picking through, I noticed the XR-150 High Temp Radiator (smallest in XR group) has a higher mass than the larger XR-1000 and XR-1500.  Given its size, relative to XR-1000, it looks like it's off by a factor of 10.  Was this just a decimal place typo?

Hmm, yes, looks like a problem - but it is only in the SystemHeat patch, so I will ensure it's fixed there.

[wreckreation]

Great mod, love it.  Thanks for keeping it going for so long,

Just FYI, KSP updated to 1.11, and now Tweakscale (v2.4.4.0) complains about Heat Control parts having duplicated properties:  E.G.:

Quote

[LOG 09:54:51.747] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-conformal-1 (GR-50 High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). 

etc.  Thought you'd like to know.

[Nik Power]

Dear Nertea,

I'm playing KSP 1.10.1 (because there's no MechJeb for KSP 1.11.x yet), I'm using  HeatControl 5.2.0 and TweakScale 2.4.4, in the spoiler below is the part of KSP. log I'm getting, could You do something to fix it?

Spoiler

[LOG 21:59:21.426] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-conformal-1 (GR-50 High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.426] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-conformal-2 (GR-150 High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.426] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-conformal-3 (GR-1500 High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.426] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-universal-1 (XR-150 High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.426] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-universal-2 (XR-1000 High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.427] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-universal-3 (XR-1250 High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.427] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-fixed-1 (VF-150 'Beta' High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.427] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-fixed-2 (VF-25 'Alpha' High Temperature Radiator Fin) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.427] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-fixed-3 (VF-600 'Gamma' High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.427] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-fixed-4 (VF-2000 'Delta' High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.427] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-surface-125-1 (YF-25 'Ezikiel' High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.428] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-surface-25-1 (YF-75 'Volta' High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0
[LOG 21:59:21.428] [TweakScale] ERROR: **FATAL** Part radiator-surface-375-1 (YF-150 'Amos' High Temperature Heat Radiator) has a fatal problem due having duplicated properties - see issue [#34]( https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/34 ). at error:0

 

Found the method to fix it in TweakScale branch Thank You

Edited December 27, 2020 by Nik Power
Solution found

[Nertea]

TweakScale support is TweakScale's business. I don't support it.