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what makes people use 64bit (and how can we avoid it)


Mulbin

why do you use 64 bit  

128 members have voted

  1. 1. why do you use 64 bit

    • opengl 32 still isnt enough for all my mods
      34
    • I havent tried opengl 32
      3
    • opengl doesnt work with my post processing (gemfx etc.)
      9
    • opengl doesnt work for me at all
      3
    • opengl 32 has bugs
      14
    • 64 bit runs better than 32
      43
    • other
      24


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OpenGL makes me cry tears of blood, purely due to the dire performance. I only use it if I have to because it halves my framerate, and it doesn't render shadows properly. I really need to setup a Linux install.

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OpenGL makes me cry tears of blood, purely due to the dire performance. I only use it if I have to because it halves my framerate, and it doesn't render shadows properly. I really need to setup a Linux install.

There are a lot of guides, take the plunge and you won't regret it!

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I use it because I want to, plain and simple. The current edition of the x64 player works one hell of a lot better than any prior versions we got fed by Squad, and when one uses mods as RAM-hungry as I do, it's a very good option, better than that OpenGL hack.

It's not going to be avoided; everyone wants it, but most had problems with the official versions and that's shaken their trust in the ability of Unity 4's x64 build (even though, as I said, it's much better now), instead leaving them to wait and hope for Unity 5 to save the day.

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I can testify that the unofficial windows 64 bit release works better than ever before; I haven't had a single CTD or game breaking bug unrelated to mods. Compare that to previous official releases, where I couldn't get past the space center menu without a CTD. The unofficial hack is not hard to implement at all and you get much better performance than OpenGL.

So, If you don't want to go through the hassle of installing linux or using openGL, give the windows 64 bit hack a try. I highly recommend it. :D

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On the "problem for modders" bit... won't that likely go away with the Unity 5 release, and properly-supported x64?

IF unity 5 supports 64bit properly and IF SQUAD decides to officially support 64bit then of course. But 64bit as far as I know is not officially confirmed with Unity 5. I get the impression that it will work, but they don't want to give out any guarantees one way or the other.

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If the 64bit build works without issues not apparent in the 32bit version, Squad will support it, absolutely, and with the U5 64bit editor any 64bit oddness can be tracked down.

64bit already mostly works, but breaks career, and Squad can't have that.

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Can someone please clarify the statement that x64 KSP looks prettier?

AFAIK 32 and 64 look the same.

Stock KSP looks the same on either, however you are very limited to which graphics mods you can use on standard 32bit as it runs out of memory. 64bit has plenty of memory to use so you can pile on loads of enhancements to make it look really nice. Another option is to run 32bit in opengl which frees up a lot of memory to add more graphics enhancements, however some graphics wrappers (like GEMFX) do not work with opengl.

It's all changed fairly recently though as programs like sweetfx now support opengl which means you can make 32bit look just as pretty as 64bit. The downside is that you will have a crappy frame rate with 32bit.

To illustrate what an external wrapper does...

Before

h0jd1yM.png

After

OeyvsJU.jpg

You can adjust every effect and parameter to suit your taste... I like things a bit glowy :)

May I ask how?

Set up to run in opengl (search the forums for this)

add all the usual graphics mods..

Environmental visual enhancements

planetshine

distant object

texture replacer (and choose a nice skybox)

engine light

etc, etc... lost of other mods to look at on the forum

Then Install these two wrappers

This one first

http://reshade.me/ (install the one with sweetfx)

Then this one

http://reshade.me/forum/shaderpack-mastereffect/161-mastereffect-reborn-official-thread

Once they are set up use the mastereffect config to alter settings, all fairly simple if you read the readmes!

EDIT - once you have it running feel free to pm me for my config file if you cant get it looking right!

Edited by Mulbin
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So here is a poll to find out what it is that makes 64bit necessary for users.

Welcome to the year 2003, where we finally now have 64-bit processors. No more memory limits, and games can use the 64-bit throughput to a full extend to speed up their code!

The question should be: who the hell releases a 32-bit game 13 years after 32-bit was outdated?

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Welcome to the year 2003, where we finally now have 64-bit processors. No more memory limits, and games can use the 64-bit throughput to a full extend to speed up their code!

The question should be: who the hell releases a 32-bit game 13 years after 32-bit was outdated?

This is an good question, note that it was not much need for 64 bit back in 2003 outside of servers. windows 2003 server had an 64 version and we got 64 bit xp who was basically 2003 server without the server features and an xp profile. Vista was popular as 32 bit as most only had 2 GB.

Windows 7 has 64 as default, win 8.1 is 64 bit only so is any later OS.

Most programs are still 32 bit as its no need for them to use more than 2 GB memory. Memory hungry programs today is always 64 bit.

Most games has been 32 bit, this is simply as most games the last 10 years has been made for PC/360/PS3, the last to only has 512 mb including graphic memory. The pc version usaly get better textures and shaders but still don't use 8 time more memory so 32 bit is enough, it also work for the 15% on xp / vista 32.

This is changing now PC/PS4/One games is typical 64 bit, they typically use more than 4 gb if needed. The game developers had memory as they number one wish for PS4/ One.

Now even programs who are 32 bit can often not run on an 32 bit OS. The program like KSP is limited to 3.7 GB, however 32 bit windows is limited to 4GB including memory on the graphic card and the memory used by windows and other programs so you are lucky if you get 2 GB to program. If it want 2.5 GB it will not get it.

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64-bit isn't really even the issue. A lot of it comes from the utterly ridiculous memory management policy KSP has of "Load all the assets at startup, and keep them loaded even when they're not in use." If I'm building a station in the VAB I don't need the IVA textures loaded. If I'm flying a space station around Minmus I still don't need the IVA until I actually hit the IVA button. And I certainly don't need Eeloo's textures to be loaded. Or the inside of the VAB for that matter.

If things were loaded as needed and unloaded when not in use most people would never notice any issues with running out of memory, even with lots of mods. It's very rare to use every single part on a single vessel.

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Because KSP for Win 64 is an unstable ball of crap that some rare people have had good luck with. The problem is that almost all errors a mod may have under Win 64 can be traced back to Win 64 (unless they were already identified as errors under other versions). Long story short, no modder wants to support a black box oozing the stench of dung because it's pointless and stinks.

If you'd read the rest of my post you'd see that I say no modder should be held accountable for problems with their mods on Win 64. Modders do an incredible job with KSP and for that I am eternally grateful to them, I'm sure that Kerbal wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as it is without the vast and varied quantity of mods available so that we can all alter the game and make it more like what we as individuals want.

By that same logic though, why prevent someone running the Win64 version of the game if they want to, it's a single player game and doesn't affect anyone else (provided of-course that they don't moan to the modder or Squad about any problems they may encounter, they are after all running an unsupported version of the game).

I say let them try it if they want, at their own risk and with no comeback at all to modders. Who knows they might even find that they are one of the "rare people who have had good luck" and it works fine for them.

Edit: I run 32 bit KSP by the way.

Edited by gmiddlemass
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64-bit isn't really even the issue. A lot of it comes from the utterly ridiculous memory management policy KSP has of "Load all the assets at startup, and keep them loaded even when they're not in use." If I'm building a station in the VAB I don't need the IVA textures loaded. If I'm flying a space station around Minmus I still don't need the IVA until I actually hit the IVA button. And I certainly don't need Eeloo's textures to be loaded. Or the inside of the VAB for that matter.

If things were loaded as needed and unloaded when not in use most people would never notice any issues with running out of memory, even with lots of mods. It's very rare to use every single part on a single vessel.

Why does KSP do this? I assume unity has support for memory management who is better than this.

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Why does KSP do this? I assume unity has support for memory management who is better than this.

There is a very simple answer to this: The devs actually don't know how to do it properly.

If you compare KSP to other Unity games (and all the bugs), it clearly shows that actual coding is not the primary strength of this company.

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There is a very simple answer to this: The devs actually don't know how to do it properly.

If you compare KSP to other Unity games (and all the bugs), it clearly shows that actual coding is not the primary strength of this company.

Squad is a viral marketing / web design company. HarvesteR worked there, and wanted to create a game. He went to management to resign so he could start his own game company, but they liked the idea of making a game so they made it an official Squad project instead. Some other people have been hired since the early days, but the initial design was done by people without much experience doing this sort of software development. It's now somewhat "baked in" to the system and difficult to change, though it can be done.

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