What do you think about Metamizole or Pyralgine as we call it in Poland

[peadar1987]

The big problem with that is that if it works, it is called actual medicine and not homoeopathy.

Yes, if it has enough of an active ingredient to cause an effect, it's not homeopathic. If it has less than that, it doesn't work.

[LordFerret]

The big problem with that is that if it works, it is called actual medicine and not homoeopathy.

Well, if you're wondering what's going to break and when - CNBC and Patent Watch.

I would think because some manner of extraction (patented process) is required, maybe made concentrate, or chemically/genetically enhanced ... yes, they would call it a 'medicine', and, yes, likely regulate it because it has been 'processed'.

[vger]

Probably because someone seriously suggested it as an alternative. You cannot let those things slide without thoroughly emphasizing why that is bad advice I think we made out point, though

That doesn't even make sense from the perspective of homeopathic medicine. What are you going to do, drink a can of rhinovirus?

[Camacha]

That doesn't even make sense from the perspective of homeopathic medicine. What are you going to do, drink a can of rhinovirus?

I am not sure I get your point.

[vger]

I am not sure I get your point.

Just going by the basis of how homeopathy is supposed to work, I can't even fathom how that would be applied to fighting a virus. Oh well. Not really relevant. But then, this thread got derailed 2 pages ago.

[andrewas]

Homeopathy is about finding poisons that cause the same symptoms as the disease, so it can be applied to fighting a virus as well as anything else. Have a fever? Take a poison that causes fevers and repeatedly dilute it till there are no molecules of it left in the water, use that water to make sugar pills. You have a homeopathic fever cure.

And if you do it on an industrial scale, you make millions.

[Shpaget]

This is where you are wrong. In fact, the complete opposite is coming to life. Doctors and hospitals are more-so using the web for data sharing and remote diagnosis - even surgeries. I suggest you do a little research on this, as you're going to be seeing more and more of it in the future... I spent 12 years working in the industry related to just such a thing.

I am aware of this trend, however that is clearly not what I'm talking about. Comparing a surgery where one of the doctors is remotely present via an Internet link, so he can offer assistance is not even remotely similar to someone coming on a game forum and starting a discussion about taking drugs and self-medication.

Data sharing between two doctors or medical institutions is also not what we are talking about here.

As for diagnosis, how does the doctor obtain a blood sample to have a lab analyze it? Or does he just takes the patient's word "It hurts here and here." and prescribes a drug? I don't think so.

I'll also add that, despite all the humbug and downfalls of many homeopathic treatments, there are also a large number which the door has been re-opened to and further research is underway about. To totally discount all of it is foolish... just don't walk into it blindly, do the homework.

If you would dilute a single drop of active substance to a homeopathic solution of 30C (100^30, or 10^60 factor of dilution which is rather "mild" solution by some homeopaths) you would need quite a bit of water. So much in fact, that it would make a sphere of more than 22 000 lightyears across (discounting gravitational pull that would collapse it into a supermassive black hole). Chances of finding a single molecule of active substance in that vastness of water is astronomical.

Taking some water from a toilet would most likely give you more of the active substance (of any active substance found in nature) than a homeopathic solution prepared with pure water.

Some homeopathic stuff is diluted much further than that. For example, Oscillococcinum is diluted to 200C, or 10^400, meaning that in order to be reasonably sure you'll find a single molecule of the original ingredient, you'd need to have about 10^300 entire observable universes filled with the "remedy".

Therefore, if it's homeopathic, it's water.

There have been some studies and none of them showed any effect of homeopathic remedies beyond statistical noise and placebo.

Also, none of them showed any sign that "water memory" has any healing properties.

If you have some newer data, please don't just use weasel words like "opened doors", share a link to the study published in a peer reviewed article.

[Signo]

To be back on topic, that stuff definetely works (and it works a lot better than what you could get as an alternative - like paracetamol or ibuprofen).

The States banned it and UK did not even want to start a trial for it. It is commonly used in Japan and other major EU countries. Where I am living it needs a prescription and they are however limiting its use to very high temperature cases.

Known side effects range from ipotension to light immunodeficiency.

I would skip it for a common cold, saving it for the worst moment of a bad flu. I'd rather take acetylsalicylic acid + vitamin C.

[lajoswinkler]

Pawel, using metamizole for headache is really foolish. What's wrong with acetylsalicylic acid AKA Aspirine?

I live by the personal rule that medication intake of any form should be minimized. For example, if I get a cold, the only "medication" I take are tissues and maybe a bit of vitamin C dissolved in water (which does not cure colds, but a shortage can cause colds, so I like to ensure that I don't have a shortage). My colds usually last 2-3 days, and I get maybe 3 or so per year (at least half of which I pick up from inconsiderate jerks at work who won't freaking stay home when sick). In case of a sore throat accompanying the cold, we have some really low-impact, homepathic pills that you can pop hourly, and which work (I suspect) mostly by ensuring a lot of saliva flow or something. But it definitely does help.

A quality cough syrup is also in stock, because believe me, a deep-sitting cough is absolutely not something you should ever leave unmedicated! I made the mistake once, ended up with pneumonia and four weeks bedrest on hard antibiotics. Not fun. Not making that mistake again. Still, treating a cough with painkillers is not somethin I'd do.

For fever-reduction, we have paracetamol at home (which is also a basic painkiller), but I can't recall when I last took one. Maybe during that pneumonia episode. But it's been at least 15 years since, maybe more.

*does a facepalm so hard and gets a concussion*

Homeopathy is a scam with pseudoscientific foundation and this forum is not for such things.

[Pawelk198604]

I would skip it for a common cold, saving it for the worst moment of a bad flu. I'd rather take acetylsalicylic acid + vitamin C.

That exactly is the problem I am allergic to acetylsalicylic acid, when I was a little kid and I was cold, I polopiryna (Polish generic of aspirin) and ended up visit in hospital

The worst part is that cold reduce my IQ so i cannot do anything that required complex thinking like playing KSP

[lajoswinkler]

Have you tried ibuprofen?

[grawl]

Aspirin has been the cure for all my colds in the last 10 years or so.

However I noticed I had a significant nosebleed increase when I was taking it - a quite common side-effect, as aspirin is fluidifying (..err??) the blood.

But I stopped taking it, and switched to paracetamol. Treats headache, and flowing nose.

I think aspirin has an antiviral effect as well, so when I feel like I'm going towards a flu I still take some.

Ibuprofen is harder stuff, I take it when my leg is in pain (I have a recurrent pain in one of my upper-legs). Works like a charm. I just try to be careful and not eat it like candy. The resulting stomach-ache helps though lol

On the homeopathic side, I think it's purely a placebo. But the placebo effect is a proven thing. If you really believe that what you are taking is going to cure you, then it might probably work as well as expected. Auto-persuasion is powerfull.

Hear me well, homeopathy isn't plant medicine. Plant medicine can be rather tough, and even kill you if not taken carefully. That's not placebo.

[Shpaget]

But the placebo effect is a proven thing. If you really believe that what you are taking is going to cure you, then it might probably work as well as expected. Auto-persuasion is powerfull.

Only when dealing with subjective effects.

A placebo will not help much with blood pressure regulation, fighting bacterial or viral infections, cancer or anything actually measurable.

[LordFerret]

I am aware of this trend, however that is clearly not what I'm talking about. Comparing a surgery where one of the doctors is remotely present via an Internet link, so he can offer assistance is not even remotely similar to someone coming on a game forum and starting a discussion about taking drugs and self-medication.

Data sharing between two doctors or medical institutions is also not what we are talking about here.

As for diagnosis, how does the doctor obtain a blood sample to have a lab analyze it? Or does he just takes the patient's word "It hurts here and here." and prescribes a drug? I don't think so.

If you would dilute a single drop of active substance to a homeopathic solution of 30C (100^30, or 10^60 factor of dilution which is rather "mild" solution by some homeopaths) you would need quite a bit of water. So much in fact, that it would make a sphere of more than 22 000 lightyears across (discounting gravitational pull that would collapse it into a supermassive black hole). Chances of finding a single molecule of active substance in that vastness of water is astronomical.

Taking some water from a toilet would most likely give you more of the active substance (of any active substance found in nature) than a homeopathic solution prepared with pure water.

Some homeopathic stuff is diluted much further than that. For example, Oscillococcinum is diluted to 200C, or 10^400, meaning that in order to be reasonably sure you'll find a single molecule of the original ingredient, you'd need to have about 10^300 entire observable universes filled with the "remedy".

Therefore, if it's homeopathic, it's water.

There have been some studies and none of them showed any effect of homeopathic remedies beyond statistical noise and placebo.

Also, none of them showed any sign that "water memory" has any healing properties.

If you have some newer data, please don't just use weasel words like "opened doors", share a link to the study published in a peer reviewed article.

Interestingly enough, I have a friend who swears by Oscillococcinum every time the flu comes around... same guy has a tendency to put drops of hydrogen peroxide in his ears when he feels a cold coming on. Yet, as the saying goes, he's as healthy as a horse and I've never seen him 'sick'. Further study required.

I'm afraid I have no 'newer data' any more than what you yourself could scour off the web. However, I do believe part of the reason there aren't more prominent publications is this.

[Camacha]

Interestingly enough, I have a friend who swears by Oscillococcinum every time the flu comes around... same guy has a tendency to put drops of hydrogen peroxide in his ears when he feels a cold coming on. Yet, as the saying goes, he's as healthy as a horse and I've never seen him 'sick'. Further study required.

How does that compare to all those people that never used oscillococcinum and did not get sick either? Or people that neglected to put hydrogen peroxide in their ears, yet never even felt a cold coming on?

You know as well as we do that this type of anecdotal evidence is worthless. You cannot wave away the dilution story above with something that limited.

However, I do believe part of the reason there aren't more prominent publications is this.

Is what? A random link will not suffice, an extract and your own vision on things is at least required.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Camacha

[LordFerret]

Random link? Did you read it? Apparently not.

Ok, an extract -

"Conclusion

A considerable difference exists between the number of clinical trials showing positive results published in CAM journals compared with traditional journals. We found only 30% of those articles published in CAM journals presented negative findings, whereas over twice that amount were published in traditional journals. These results suggest a publication bias against homeopathy exists in mainstream journals. Conversely, the same type of publication bias does not appear to exist between review and meta-analysis articles published in the two types of journals."

My own view was already stated... more study is required.

"CONCLUSIONS:

There is some evidence that homeopathic treatments are more effective than placebo; however, the strength of this evidence is low because of the low methodological quality of the trials. Studies of high methodological quality were more likely to be negative than the lower quality studies. Further high quality studies are needed to confirm these results." - Evidence of clinical efficacy of homeopathy. A meta-analysis of clinical trials. HMRAG. Homeopathic Medicines Research Advisory Group.

...and counter to that view, from the Australian study...

"CONCLUSIONS:

The findings of currently available Cochrane reviews of studies of homeopathy do not show that homeopathic medicines have effects beyond placebo." - Homeopathy: what does the "best" evidence tell us?

[smjjames]

Theres a bunch of cold remedy teas around if you don't mind drinking tea. I think Chamomile tea is one of them. Just look around in your local stores.

It won't CURE you, but it should help you feel better, and probably help along the way.

Also, before anybody declares that as being homeopathic, theres a difference between using natural remedies and using things that are just saline water and don't even have a molecule in them or so few that it doesn't have any effect.

Edit: Wait, nobody mentioned Tylenol. @OP, I know you said that you're allergic to asprin, but is tylenol okay for you?

Edited June 25, 2015 by smjjames

[Shpaget]

I'm afraid I have no 'newer data' any more than what you yourself could scour off the web. However, I do believe part of the reason there aren't more prominent publications is this.

More articles praising the homeopathy can be found in alternative medicine journals than in mainstream? What a shock.

Would it be a long shot to guess that peers working for CAM journals are significantly more receptive to alternative medicine and that those peers themselves are introducing the bias?

[grawl]

Only when dealing with subjective effects.

A placebo will not help much with blood pressure regulation, fighting bacterial or viral infections, cancer or anything actually measurable.

True, but we are talking about common cold here.

About cancer, some spectacular remissions have been seen.

[edit]

Well, nothing has ever came good of sitting and eating popcorn ^^

Let me rephrase, the common cold can be cured by a little boost of the immune system. This boost can be obtained in numerous ways. Placebo effect is one of this ways.

There have been spectacular cancer remissions, but I admit this is anecdotic. Take this more as a wild argument to prove my point

My point is placebo effect won't cure in a scientific rational kind of way. It won't have a precise quantified effect as antibiotics or a chimio have. But it doesn't mean it has no effect at all. The mechanics of the human brain are a still mysterious and under-explored side of science.

I hope I defused the riot (please please please)

[/edit]

Edited June 25, 2015 by grawl

[Streetwind]

*sits and eats popcorn*

[Shpaget]

True, but we are talking about common cold here.

About cancer, some spectacular remissions have been seen.

[edit]

Well, nothing has ever came good of sitting and eating popcorn ^^

Let me rephrase, the common cold can be cured by a little boost of the immune system. This boost can be obtained in numerous ways. Placebo effect is one of this ways.

There have been spectacular cancer remissions, but I admit this is anecdotic. Take this more as a wild argument to prove my point

My point is placebo effect won't cure in a scientific rational kind of way. It won't have a precise quantified effect as antibiotics or a chimio have. But it doesn't mean it has no effect at all. The mechanics of the human brain are a still mysterious and under-explored side of science.

I hope I defused the riot (please please please)

[/edit]

Common cold is a viral infection.

If placebo works just as well as homeopathy, then than is another argument against homeopathy.

Of course there have been remissions and there have probably been cases where some individual got better even though using only homeopathic stuff. That's not the question. The question is how reliably can homeopathic treatment deliver results. Unfortunately we can't rewind the time and check if that spectacular remission would happen even without homeopathy, but my guess is that it would.

[Jesrad]

As for treating a common cold, I suggest a big, one-shot dose of vitamin D3 (thousands of UI). The influx stimulates the immune system and usually the cold disappears in a day or two.

[lajoswinkler]

Aspirin has been the cure for all my colds in the last 10 years or so.

However I noticed I had a significant nosebleed increase when I was taking it - a quite common side-effect, as aspirin is fluidifying (..err??) the blood.

Yes, acetylsalicylic acid is an anticoagulant, specifically antiplatelet compound so it's even something recognized as a long term mediation of blood clots if taken daily in low doses. Of course, it should be taken with plenty of water because it's a solid acid. Not really for people with ulcers.

But I stopped taking it, and switched to paracetamol. Treats headache, and flowing nose.

I think aspirin has an antiviral effect as well, so when I feel like I'm going towards a flu I still take some.

Paracetamol is very safe if taken appropriately (and if you aren't a kid with Reye's syndrome), but less safe than acetylsalicylic acid.

Ibuprofen is harder stuff, I take it when my leg is in pain (I have a recurrent pain in one of my upper-legs). Works like a charm. I just try to be careful and not eat it like candy. The resulting stomach-ache helps though lol

Yes, ibuprofen is something best used for stuff like musculoskeletal pains, nerve inflammations, toothaches (when it's a lifesaver; praise ibuprofen oh lawdy!), etc.

As with all drugs, use the minimal dose. For example if I have a mild pain, I can deal with it. If it gets worse or horrible, I will take enough to attenuate it. There's no need to anaesthetize oneself.

On the homeopathic side, I think it's purely a placebo. But the placebo effect is a proven thing. If you really believe that what you are taking is going to cure you, then it might probably work as well as expected. Auto-persuasion is powerfull.

Hear me well, homeopathy isn't plant medicine. Plant medicine can be rather tough, and even kill you if not taken carefully. That's not placebo.

Placebos do not cure. They:

1) might

2) make you feel good

3) for a short amount of time

4) in certain cases.

So if you have a raging toothache or influenza or rhinitis or migraine, it will not help nor make you feel better. Placebo is something you need to be persuaded in by others and "therapeutic" index for taking expensive scammy sugar pills is extremely narrow.

Indeed, it is not plant medicine. Nothing to do with plants. It also isn't a medicine. It's not a drug. All those names are something that's earned by hard work and clinical evidence. There's nothing like that with chugga chugga sugary lies.

Theres a bunch of cold remedy teas around if you don't mind drinking tea. I think Chamomile tea is one of them. Just look around in your local stores.

It won't CURE you, but it should help you feel better, and probably help along the way.

Also, before anybody declares that as being homeopathic, theres a difference between using natural remedies and using things that are just saline water and don't even have a molecule in them or so few that it doesn't have any effect.

Matricaria chamomilla L. infusion is a very mild sedative and very mild antiinflammatory agent. It should not be consumed by pregnant females as it has a decent potential to induce labor.

Homeopathic preparations don't have to be that dilluted. For example there are preparations where the concentration of some agent is measurable. However, they're basically useless from any standpoint. They are to weak to induce any medical effect, and the homeopath quacks hold them to be useless, too, because "their dillution is too weak".

The point of homeopathic preparations is to dillute something that induces symptoms of the illness you want to treat, to the point where it's just water. For example if you want to treat tummy pain, their insane "logic" would recommend dilluting arsenic trioxide (because it induces tummy ache, but glass shards do it, too! ) until you get water with statistically insignificant chance of having one particle of the trioxide and then consuming it. But not before you're classified as one of their "types", which are the same hogwash as astrology.

It's a stupid cul de sac of early medicine. Worthless crap that spins a huge amount of money each year.

Edit: Wait, nobody mentioned Tylenol. @OP, I know you said that you're allergic to asprin, but is tylenol okay for you?

Tylenol is paracetamol.

Edited June 25, 2015 by lajoswinkler

[smjjames]

@lajoswinkler: Okay maybe it wasn't chamomile, but my mom gave me a tea often when I had a cold when I was younger. Wouldn't help much while the OP is at work though.

[Wesreidau]

I had a hell of a sinus infection and possibly acute bronchitis and got through it with two weeks of maintaining a buzz off tea with lemon wheels, cinnamon, brown sugar and sweet, sweet Sailor Jerry. It was the only thing that kept my caffeine headaches, sinus pressure and sore throat simultaneously suppressed. So take that, Western medicine!