Squadcast Summary 6/26/15

[FlowerChild]

I do not know where this idea that 1.0 is 'a finished product' came from.

From 50+ years of software development making it a standard, and whatever redefinitions we are trying to be convinced of, likely a standard that Squad knows of and understands full well as people thinking that lead to the potential for some extra coin coming in when they declared themselves to be 1.0.

If you toy with people's perceptions in a way that's essentially counting on them thinking they're getting a product in a finished state, is it reasonable to act confused when they actually think that's the case?

Give me one 'fundamental rule of n play' that has changed post 1.0.

Aero has changed radically no less than 4 times over the past month or so where vehicles behave in a completely different manner depending on whether you're playing 0.9, 1.0, 1.02, or 1.04. Aero represents how the first few minutes play out in every single mission launched, both for new players and old. One of the first questions a new player tends to ask is "how do I build and fly a rocket to get to orbit?", and depending which of those 4 versions you're playing, the answer is going to be very different. If that doesn't represent a fundamental rule of play then I'm not certain what would qualify.

And finally, your mod is in the 'Releases' section of the forums. Evidently, you think it is ready for release. The other points are null and void - Squad has no obligation to do what you want just because that's how you feel it should be done because 'they are producing it commercially' or because 'they have a professional staff'.

Man, again, I think this whole line of argument trying to draw comparisons between my hobbyist mod creation and commercial game development is just silly, and a non-starter. It's not something I'm willing to engage in further as the only thing it's serving to do is tick me off.

Edited June 29, 2015 by FlowerChild

[DuoDex]

I fail to see how any of the patches post 1.0 made the game significantly different. Aero 'tweaks' are not 'radical change'.

Finally, you're now involving marketing in Squad's decision to go 1.0. That's irrelevant. Squad have stated repeatedly that '1.0 is not what you're thinking it is'. Anyone who believes otherwise is misinformed, despite whatever 'connotations' 1.0 has for them personally.

[Ignath]

Squad have stated repeatedly that '1.0 is not what you're thinking it is'. Anyone who believes otherwise is misinformed, despite whatever 'connotations' 1.0 has for them personally.

Again though, just because SQUAD says that, does not change the definition of what almost every gamer in the history of video games has thought 1.0 to mean. They are not misinformed at all; they expect 1.0 to mean what 1.0 means traditionally which is a 'feature complete' and primarily 'bug free' game.

[FlowerChild]

I fail to see how any of the patches post 1.0 made the game significantly different. Aero 'tweaks' are not 'radical change'.

And I fail to see how you wouldn't recognize them as such. Guess there's not much room for reaching a consensus there.

Finally, you're now involving marketing in Squad's decision to go 1.0. That's irrelevant. Squad have stated repeatedly that '1.0 is not what you're thinking it is'. Anyone who believes otherwise is misinformed, despite whatever 'connotations' 1.0 has for them personally.

Or it could be said that anyone who does believe it may be gullible, as none of the explanations for what has been going on recently that Squad has offered up are particularly believable.

Either way, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this point as we're obviously of very different opinions on the matter, and all we seem to be achieving is aggravating each other rather than coming to any kind of understanding.

You say tomato, I say tomato and all that.

Edited June 30, 2015 by FlowerChild

[rkman]

*Squad releases few patches*

- The forum: "OMG Squad start fixing the game already!"

*Squad releases lots of patches*

- The forum: "OMG Squad stop breaking the game already!"

This, folks, is the reason why game developers throttle back community interaction as the community grows and the game ages.

It also why it is good practice to not release software in an unfinished state.

If Squad knows what's good for them, they'll ignore this noise to the best of their ability.

It's not like they can undo the premature release so they can't do much different than what they are doing, regardless of paying attention to the criticism: fix the issues in the official release.

Squad have stated repeatedly that '1.0 is not what you're thinking it is'.

And what do we think 1.0 is - a designation that implies 'done, minus a few bugs that crept into the final release'?

And a developer should be able to redefine that designation without them being criticized for it?

Edited June 30, 2015 by rkman

[Melfice]

And a developer should be able to redefine that designation without them being criticized for it?

Why not? We redefine things all the time.

And let's be honest.

1.0 hasn't meant "finished" for quite a while now. Why are you blaming Squad for something that has changed quite a long time ago. "Day one patch", anyone?

[r4pt0r]

1.0 hasn't meant "finished" for quite a while now. Why are you blaming Squad for something that has changed quite a long time ago. "Day one patch", anyone?

not KSP related, but that doesnt mean we have to accept it. That terrible batman pc port was garbage, and enough people spoke up or got refunds so now its getting fixed.

day 1 patches are terrible. some games in 20 years will be unplayable on consoles if the servers arent up for the needed patches.

[Melfice]

day 1 patches are terrible.

I agree.

My point is, people in here seem to be under the delusion (intentionally, I would say in some cases. You know who you are. Cut that out, or get out. Seriously.) that Squad is the one who decided that 1.0 doesn't mean finished.

[Superfluous J]

I agree.

My point is, people in here seem to be under the delusion (intentionally, I would say in some cases. You know who you are. Cut that out, or get out. Seriously.) that Squad is the one who decided that 1.0 doesn't mean finished.

Seeing as you agree that the practice is terrible (and, I presume, that we should be admonishing Squad for partaking in it) I'll happily agree that they aren't the first to do it by a long shot.

I'm not sure why it needed specifying, though. The important part isn't that every software company sucks for doing it, it's that Squad is sucking for doing it.

[r4pt0r]

Seeing as you agree that the practice is terrible (and, I presume, that we should be admonishing Squad for partaking in it) I'll happily agree that they aren't the first to do it by a long shot.

I'm not sure why it needed specifying, though. The important part isn't that every software company sucks for doing it, it's that Squad is sucking for doing it.

and thats just about it. moving the goal posts doesnt help anyone. when its marketed to the masses as a finished product leaving early access, i mean come on.

but whats done is done, no point in debating it now.

Edited June 30, 2015 by r4pt0r

[Melfice]

and thats just about it. moving the goal posts doesnt help anyone. when its marketed to the masses as a finished product leaving early access, i mean come on.

Early access doesn't have the best of reputation these days.

I don't blame Squad for wanting to rush out of there.

[John FX]

Wow, some people got out of bed on the wrong side this morning.

A basic tenet of existence is you have to accept things that are in the past as they cannot be changed.

KSP moving from early access to release is one of those.

You can only affect events that are in the future, a DV readout is one of those.

It is generally accepted reasonable behaviour to not object to others having something you yourself do not want. Also not to force on others things they do not want.

You are not forced to use a DV readout if it exists. You still have the option of using self control and ignoring it. Like the prograde SAS, it is there but you do not have to use that 'autopilot feature', you can just ignore it.

You always have the option to completely control your craft manually as flower child has demonstrated, they also have totally adapted the game experience to be only just possible, requiring much thought to build successful designs. I'm sure that for players that wish to experience the game in that way their mod is a blessing.

After trying their conversion I decided I wanted less frustration and more fun in my game than them. They seem to be at one extreme of the player base and IMHO are not representative of the majority of players, most of whom are much more casual.

I think for the majority of players a remaining DV readout would increase their enjoyment of the game.