KSP Caveman Challenge!

[merendel]

All,

I have instituted a new rule: No using mods in another session to help you complete your "caveman challenge". This falls under the "Wheaton rule".

Best,

-Slashy

and now I'm glad I did the Dv calc's the hard way, punching in dry/full mass and ISP for each stage into the equasions several of my final craft files have notes with weights and dV estimates in the craft description area. Still contemplating a bonus round aiming for the rest of the tree if I ever have the time.

[2001kraft]

A TRUE CAVEMAN DOES NOT LEAVE HIS HOME WORLD!

I will visit the Kerbal biomes and get science from there, because why the Kraken not?

I am not sure if it's possible or not, but who cares, for a true caveman does not need the tasty wiki page to satisfy his hunger for science!

Edited July 11, 2015 by 2001kraft
spacebar lol

[Moesly_Armlis]

Here It Is Done

Javascript is disabled. View full album

The waypoint mod was never used. I was using that mod for another challenge for a stock game.

There is a good chance I would do this again.

[GoSlash27]

MoeslyArmlis,

Congratulations and welcome to the clan! I'm not going to sweat the waypoint manager because even if you did use it, it wouldn't have made this achievement any easier.

Best,

-Slashy

[Laie]

Managed to meet Minmus.

Start early (before day 10), then the encounter will happen near the descending node. That means you don't have to worry about matching planes very much. Burn prograde as it comes over the horizon, or ever-so-slightly before (angling the camera helps). Fine-tune AP to be pretty exactly that of Minmus. Timewarp.

I got lucky and arrived slightly ahead of Minmus. It then was a question of doing slight radial burns in order to keep "hovering" at the right altitude until Minmus caught up. I don't think that cost me more than 100m/s.

Udate: finished it!

Click for a short gallery.

• not shown: altitude and speed records, also crew reports
  
• not shown: some non-launch missions on launchpad and runway to unlock the barometer
  
• not shown: sounding rockets, the last of which already looked much like the Mun/Minmus probe, to gather science up to and including from space high around Kerbin
  
• shown: a jet-powered scooter to survey KSC
  
• shown: a probe launcher to get data from the moons
  
• shown: five pics of how I made a minmus encounter
  

In the end, it only required data from low around the Mun, plus low&high around Minmus. I didn't need to do any missions for cash, but I signed up for every milestone contract that also yielded science. Like, "orbit the Mun". According to my archive, I received 87 points from contracts.

I think it mattered a lot that I collected all Science Jr. and Goo reports in duplicate.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Laie

[MadChris48]

Finally completed this challenge. Phew, after a couple not-thought-out tech tree choices I created quite a hump I needed to get over. However, once I designed the right ship, a Munbomb, it was just a matter of hitting X-number biomes to finish out the tree.

It got a hair grindy for me, but I know I was uber inefficient about it, but that's the caveman way.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

PS; I apologize for the lack of full mission documentation. Been doing this over the course of a few many days and I'm terrible about taking screens.

Edited July 11, 2015 by MadChris48

[GoSlash27]

Wow, you folks have been busy!

Congrats to Laie (Is there anything you can't do?) and MadChris48 (you documented more than enough to earn it). Time to party like a neanderthal!

Best,

-Slashy

[Superfluous J]

I've finished my 2nd video, which includes my "Kill Me" craft which - no spoilers - may be appropriately named.

[Moesly_Armlis]

The kerbal idea of docking together several vehicles using the Docking Port Jr. at the KSC that would bypass the launchpad and VAB limits.

Even though the idea is kerbal it should not be supported. Bypassing the limits laid out in the challenge seems uncavemanlike.

What do you cavemen thiNk?

@5thHorseman

The explanation on how to line up Minmus started off great. Credit for saving the intercept but revoked for what happened to Val.

[GoSlash27]

5thHorseman,

I don't want to give out any spoilers. That's pretty darned impressive even though it didn't work out quite the way you had expected.

Good job on getting Val to orbit. It looks bleak now, but once you have completed the challenge and spend a little cash you will be able to return her home to a hero's welcome.

Also, I didn't know that I could reset the experiments like that. I thought I had to clean them out before I could reuse them.

That would've saved me all sorts of time. Each biome was a separate launch for me.

Best,

-Slashy

- - - Updated - - -

The kerbal idea of docking together several vehicles using the Docking Port Jr. at the KSC that would bypass the launchpad and VAB limits.

Even though the idea is kerbal it should not be supported. Bypassing the limits laid out in the challenge seems uncavemanlike.

What do you cavemen thiNk?

Actually, I think it's *very* caveman. There's not a whole lot you can do with it since you can't transfer resources (found that out the hard way), but you could use one assembly to push another *if* you can manage to get them docked without patched conics, maneuver nodes, or targeting.

I made use of this technique in my mission, so I won't tell anyone else not to do it. It's making use of what's available.

Best,

-Slashy

Edited July 12, 2015 by GoSlash27

[Moesly_Armlis]

since you can't transfer resources (found that out the hard way)

I am referring to docking the craft at the launchpad. Bringing the parts over from the runway or launch pad. Then the parts are assembled.

This is covered by the launch pad weight limit rule.

Attaching probes or fuel/engines to a larger craft might get crazy especially since the dock Port Jr. is quite flimsy.

Docking in orbit would be totally legit and cool.

Honestly I would enjoy seeing some crazy stuff.

[GoSlash27]

I am referring to docking the craft at the launchpad. Bringing the parts over from the runway or launch pad. Then the parts are assembled.

This is covered by the launch pad weight limit rule.

Attaching probes or fuel/engines to a larger craft might get crazy especially since the dock Port Jr. is quite flimsy.

Docking in orbit would be totally legit and cool.

Honestly I would enjoy seeing some crazy stuff.

MoeslyArmlis,

Honestly, that had never occurred to me. If I did assemble an overweight ship off the pad to skirt the weight limit, I don't know how I would be able to get the pointy end up. And even if I did... no resource transfer. If anyone can pull that off and make it worth their time, I say more power to 'em. It's an ingenious way to get the job done.

Best,

-Slashy

[Superfluous J]

I briefly considered making two 18-ton things that can somehow Voltron themselves together on the runway, but there are so many technical limitations and problems that I just don't think it's worth it.

I've finished episode 3 which is (as always) ripe with both failure and triumph. I probably won't post it until Monday, though.

[Sqwazare]

This is one of the most difficult challenges I have attempted, I can't remember a time that I have built or flown without KER, and the lack of patched conics got me on the first couple of probes I sent to the Mun as it didn't show an encounter... Still three more (successful) flights and I will be there.

[Laie]

Thanks Slashy, that was a nice challenge. The interesting part is trying to make do without maneuver nodes (or even SOI predictions, for that matter). I expected that it would eventually become too grindy for me to finish, but as it turned out that didn't happen. That was fun! Btw, Minmus really is easy to meet, just try it.

MoeslyArmlis, rendezvous without upgrades to tracking station or mission control will be a tough nut to crack. You can't select targets and hence lack all the usual indicators. Thinking about the issue, I can't even come up with a good enough reason to justify the effort.

[GoSlash27]

Thanks Slashy, that was a nice challenge. The interesting part is trying to make do without maneuver nodes (or even SOI predictions, for that matter). I expected that it would eventually become too grindy for me to finish, but as it turned out that didn't happen. That was fun! Btw, Minmus really is easy to meet, just try it.

MoeslyArmlis, rendezvous without upgrades to tracking station or mission control will be a tough nut to crack. You can't select targets and hence lack all the usual indicators. Thinking about the issue, I can't even come up with a good enough reason to justify the effort.

Laie,

It's tough, but not prohibitively so. I used the technique during my munar probe missions to get the science home. You just have to eyeball the intercept. If you do it close enough, you can pick up a track on the target visually and rendezvous as you normally would.

My original plan was to dock with the probe in Munar orbit, transfer fuel, and send the probe home. Of course, you can't transfer fuel at this tech level, so I just shut down the probe's engine and gave it a shove out of the Mun's SoI.

*edit* I also noticed that while you can't transfer resources, you *can* still use them (and you will if you don't disable the tank).

This would open up the possibility of building large ships in orbit for whatever purpose, but they would be extremely flimsy.

Best,

-Slashy

Edited July 12, 2015 by GoSlash27

[Superfluous J]

I've been thinking about ways to expand this challenge after you complete it. To just toss a spitball at the wall, what do you think about - after you've completed the challenge - allowing a certain number of building upgrades (I think 3 or 4 total), one of them must be R&D and the others (2 or 3 of them) can be any you so choose. Then, you have to complete the tech tree (Up to the 500 cost nodes) without upgrading anything else.

3 (in addition to R&D)is an interesting number. Do you want maneuver nodes? Then you can't have >30 parts AND >18 tons. Do you want decent ships? Then no maneuver nodes for you!

You could call it the ... I don't know ... Bronze Age Challenge. Or the Hunter Gatherer Challenge. Or something.

As I said, just spitballing.

Oh, and the sub-title to episode 3 is "Space Is Hard."

[GoSlash27]

I've been thinking about ways to expand this challenge after you complete it. To just toss a spitball at the wall, what do you think about - after you've completed the challenge - allowing a certain number of building upgrades (I think 3 or 4 total), one of them must be R&D and the others (2 or 3 of them) can be any you so choose. Then, you have to complete the tech tree (Up to the 500 cost nodes) without upgrading anything else.

3 (in addition to R&D)is an interesting number. Do you want maneuver nodes? Then you can't have >30 parts AND >18 tons. Do you want decent ships? Then no maneuver nodes for you!

You could call it the ... I don't know ... Bronze Age Challenge. Or the Hunter Gatherer Challenge. Or something.

As I said, just spitballing.

Oh, and the sub-title to episode 3 is "Space Is Hard."

5thHorseman,

That's a good idea, but I've already progressed my stock career beyond the point where I could participate. I don't want to post a challenge without proof that it can be done. Perhaps you should host it?

I think I could "name that tune" in 2 notes instead of 3. 1 is do-able but would suck (too grindy), and zero may be technically possible, but I'm not sure.

Best,

-Slashy

Edited July 12, 2015 by GoSlash27

[micha]

Hey Slashy,

Thanks a lot for this Challenge - it's the first Forum Challenge I've attempted

Quite challenging with the weight as well as parts count limits! (I won't even mention the lack of KER, patched conics, and maneuvre nodes; argh!) I thought once I unlocked the Rockomax parts I could get Kerbals to the Mun but no, they're all too heavy. So most of the Science was collected by probes, although Jeb did manage to sneak a Mun Flyby in.

I even got a probe to Minmus - although that took over 100 days. If that probe had gone to the Mun as originally planned I would have completed the challenge in 50 days instead of 160-ish.

So herewith I'd like to submit my entry for the Caveman Challenge:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Cheers,

- Micha.

[GoSlash27]

Micha,

Congratulations and welcome to the clan! I like how you biome-hopped instead of going with the Science Jr. I went the other way, and (as you noted) there ain't enough DV to go hopping when you bring one.

Also, an LV-T30 *and* passive fins?? I bet that was a treat to get to orbit!

Lookit that caveman go!

Best,

-Slashy

[Sqwazare]

Hi Slashy

Well I got there, I had doubted I would have the patience to design and fly blind like this, but the challenge got the better of me.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I think I did it a lot harder than entirely necessary, I don't know how many flights I ended up making but it was quite a few, picked up every decently paying (science wise) test contract and did those, lost a probe to solar orbit when it was misdirected from the sun on Mun transfer so ran out of power, still science from high above the sun.

In the album I say 3 landings as I haven't counted where I impacted too hard to call it a landing...

I didn't take pictures of many of the craft, they were all leading up to the standard lander, and nothing very interesting.

Thanks for a great challenge

Edited July 13, 2015 by Sqwazare

[GoSlash27]

Sqwazare,

Congratulations on completing the Caveman Challenge and welcome to the clan!

I'm amazed that you were able to construct a munar probe with a reentry shield. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't do it within the part count limit. I had to do my reentry to Kerbin very, very carefully.

Best,

-Slashy

[micha]

Micha,

Congratulations and welcome to the clan! I like how you biome-hopped instead of going with the Science Jr. I went the other way, and (as you noted) there ain't enough DV to go hopping when you bring one.

Thanks! The biome-hopping was purely luck - firstly I managed to land in an area which had 3 biomes close together, and then I wasn't really expecting to have enough dV to hop once, let alone twice! (I didn't really calculate dV, just built and prayed!)

Mind you, there was quite a lot of F5/F9'ing going on!

Also, an LV-T30 *and* passive fins?? I bet that was a treat to get to orbit!

Eh, not all that difficult - but only with the tiny fins. The bigger fins are way too stable and shoot the rocket straight up. This design -almost- gravity-turns itself into space; turn a couple of degrees east after reaching ~50m/s, careful throttling, and a little bit of tweaking on the way up was all it needed. If I can figure out a way to record video on Linux I'll make a launch vid

[Moesly_Armlis]

I'm amazed that you were able to construct a munar probe with a reentry shield. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't do it within the part count limit.

-Slashy

Yes that part count is a tad bit annoying and remember to reduce ablator to 20 units for reduced mass (should try with zero units and see if that works at least the vessel won't go in head first when out of electric). Had to take a few passes through the atmosphere in order to return safely.

Quest For Fire sure was an awesome movie. Funny I don't remember that scene. Seen through the eyes of a twelve year old maybe that is why.

So that's a "poultice".

@micha

here have at it

https://obsproject.com/download

- - - Updated - - -

Edited July 13, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[GoSlash27]

Eh, not all that difficult - but only with the tiny fins. The bigger fins are way too stable and shoot the rocket straight up. This design -almost- gravity-turns itself into space; turn a couple of degrees east after reaching ~50m/s, careful throttling, and a little bit of tweaking on the way up was all it needed. If I can figure out a way to record video on Linux I'll make a launch vid

Micha,

I think that would be a very helpful instructional video.

I've been following a different process and it's been hit-or-miss. I run vertical to 80-100 m/sec (depending on t/w ratio) and then kick over 10° east and turn off SAS. After that, I taper the t/w ratio with the pitch angle.

Sometimes it drops me right in, but other times it's way off. I'll try it your way; I'd love to have a better process for this.

/cavemen know their KSP

-Slashy

Edited July 13, 2015 by GoSlash27