Discussion thread - BD Armory AI tournaments

[QuesoExplosivo]

Yeah, the planes had a hard time hitting each other.

In other news, the Hornet beat the CK-141A (5-0). Those Vulcans are brutal.

The Mosquito beat the DAZ-1 Mk. 2 (3-2). The video, yet to upload, features some crazy ramming.

Video of the K4G vs. DAZ-1 Mk. 2:

Edited July 29, 2015 by QuesoExplosivo

[RocketTurtle]

Yeah, the planes had a hard time hitting each other.

In other news, the Hornet beat the CK-141A (5-0). Those Vulcans are brutal.

The Mosquito beat the DAZ-1 Mk. 2 (3-2). The video, yet to upload, features some crazy ramming.

Video of the K4G vs. DAZ-1 Mk. 2:

You got my updated craft right?

[QuesoExplosivo]

Yes.

X-Viper vs. Hornet video:

https://youtu.be/MoFh0VSrsA0

The Blizzards beat the MIGs 3-2. In one of the matches, the MIGs won because the Blizzards ran out of fuel.

Next Round:

Hellion vs. Blizzard

Hornet vs. Mosquito

[RocketTurtle]

Yes.

X-Viper vs. Hornet video:

https://youtu.be/MoFh0VSrsA0

The Blizzards beat the MIGs 3-2. In one of the matches, the MIGs won because the Blizzards ran out of fuel.

Next Round:

Hellion vs. Blizzard

Hornet vs. Mosquito

I assume it's too late for me to add a bit of fuel? Lol

[QuesoExplosivo]

Yes, it is.

The Hellions beat the Blizzards 4-1. Ramming was involved in one of the matches (must be a n00b AI, right?)

The Hornet vs. CK-141A video just uploaded:

Edited July 29, 2015 by QuesoExplosivo

[RocketTurtle]

Yes, it is.

The Hellions beat the Blizzards 4-1. Ramming was involved in one of the matches (must be a n00b AI, right?)

The Hornet vs. CK-141A video just uploaded:

Damm.

Not sure what to change.

[QuesoExplosivo]

The Blizzards' missiles weren't very effective. I would replace the AMRAAMs with Sidewinders. Also, changing the guard range to 5km would help.

The Hornet beat the Mosquito 5-0. The Hornets got in the air a lot faster than the Mosquitoes, giving them a big advantage. On the last two matches, I set the Mosquitoes' minimum altitude to 150 m instead of 900 m, which made it more fair, but they still lost.

FINALS: Hellion vs. Hornet

Mosquito vs. DAZ video: https://youtu.be/p2oquB4aCfg

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The final is done, but I'll wait to post the results until all the videos have uploaded.

[RocketTurtle]

The Blizzards' missiles weren't very effective. I would replace the AMRAAMs with Sidewinders. Also, changing the guard range to 5km would help.

The Hornet beat the Mosquito 5-0. The Hornets got in the air a lot faster than the Mosquitoes, giving them a big advantage. On the last two matches, I set the Mosquitoes' minimum altitude to 150 m instead of 900 m, which made it more fair, but they still lost.

FINALS: Hellion vs. Hornet

Mosquito vs. DAZ video: https://youtu.be/p2oquB4aCfg

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The final is done, but I'll wait to post the results until all the videos have uploaded.

Okay. Do you have the video of my loss?

I thought AMRAAMS were more effective. And I Ali thought guard range was up to the tournament host, because it always resets itself to default.

Or do I just have to change it in the hangar?

Thanks though. I would have hoped my plane would be maneuverable enough to get in guns range. But the roll rate is horrible. I don't know how to fix it

[colmo]

I'm on the way home and it looks like I have to bring out my best plane!

It looks like the WW2ers have found a new home and normal jet dogfighting can resume.

There's still a few things we need to tweak - reproducible starting positions, and some weapon costing.

I've mentioned Kerbal Konstructs as a means of building custom arenas. I haven't yet had a chance to have a go at it.

It looks like guns are the ticket, so they need to be valued accordingly. Missiles seem utterly ineffective in the majority of contests - is that a fair assessment?

If so, either increase countermeasure values or have a hard cap on them.

[RocketTurtle]

I'm on the way home and it looks like I have to bring out my best plane!

It looks like the WW2ers have found a new home and normal jet dogfighting can resume.

There's still a few things we need to tweak - reproducible starting positions, and some weapon costing.

I've mentioned Kerbal Konstructs as a means of building custom arenas. I haven't yet had a chance to have a go at it.

It looks like guns are the ticket, so they need to be valued accordingly. Missiles seem utterly ineffective in the majority of contests - is that a fair assessment?

If so, either increase countermeasure values or have a hard cap on them.

A hidden Vulcan is already 9 points. I'd say reduce missile cost to 2 and up countermeasures to 6. Something like that.

[QuesoExplosivo]

Videos:

Blizzard vs. MIG: https://youtu.be/ZXPE8MhnzPQ

Blizzard vs. Hellion: https://youtu.be/JsDceEIBawY

Hornet vs. Mosquito: https://youtu.be/batlITwKDtg

Hellion vs. Hornet (finals): https://youtu.be/WoZSucGoQhI

The Hornet won in a close 3 to 2 victory. The two planes are pretty evenly matched; the Hellion is a bit faster but a bit less maneuverable than the Hornet.

[RocketTurtle]

Videos:

Blizzard vs. MIG: https://youtu.be/ZXPE8MhnzPQ

Blizzard vs. Hellion: https://youtu.be/JsDceEIBawY

Hornet vs. Mosquito: https://youtu.be/batlITwKDtg

Hellion vs. Hornet (finals): https://youtu.be/WoZSucGoQhI

The Hornet won in a close 3 to 2 victory. The two planes are pretty evenly matched; the Hellion is a bit faster but a bit less maneuverable than the Hornet.

Hm.

I watched the Blizzard vs Hellion one, it would have been nice if you activate the pilots, and then quickly switched though them pressing the stage button. By the time you got my Blizzards going the Hellions were already in the air. At least for the first one.

[colmo]

A few other things to ban in the context of a fighter challenge:

- oxidiser (I do want to allow RAPIER in air breathing mode - tempting to have a little oxy to get a rapid takeoff, but not very fair!)

- unmannable planes (not having to pack a cockpit is a 1T weight advantage).

[RocketTurtle]

A few other things to ban in the context of a fighter challenge:

- oxidiser (I do want to allow RAPIER in air breathing mode - tempting to have a little oxy to get a rapid takeoff, but not very fair!)

- unmannable planes (not having to pack a cockpit is a 1T weight advantage).

I think cockpits should be required.

And, we need to work on executing the actual fights. I'll be frank, QuesoExplosivo's fights weren't exactly fair. There was too much of a delay between each plane starting. What we need to do is activate all the AI pilots, but not the engines, and then quickly switch through them all while hitting space.

[colmo]

Once Kerbal Konstructs is sorted, I'm thinking about a JSF AI challenge. It would pit planes, not against each other, but against a number of scenarios, a triathlon of:

- Scramble to engage in air to air against a numerically superior fleet of incoming planes, perhaps three or more.

- Scramble to stop bombers before they destroy the KSC (need to figure out how to persuade bombers not to go chasing after interceptors!)

- Attack a force of ground vessels (there may even be helicopters!)

The principal purpose is to test the ability of the same fighter airframe to perform different roles (not just slow, fast turning gunboats as the dogfights favour).

It's also a design challenge to make the scenarios work, which will be fun.

Lastly it's a showcase for KSP and BD Armory AI.

Scoring would be along the lines of degree of cumulative success or failure in each round.

[Darren9]

Both planes destroyed in the first missile volley, don't see that very often. I'll be seeing about some more upgrades, I should of put a sidewinder on, I had 5 points spare , thanks for running it QuesoExplosivo.

[RocketTurtle]

Guys, how do I make my roll rate better? My plane is 12 tons and I don't want to add much weight, and I already ran out of fuel in one round...

[PixelStory]

I just finished my latest craft! The Viper X4!

http://kerbalx.com/PixelStory/The-Viper-X4

Javascript is disabled. View full album

This will be the LAST of the "Viper" series.

Note: The pics are slightly out dated. It has a GAU 8 30mm instead of a Vulcan turret.

[t3hJimmer]

Matched up with the Shark in the first round

Ohh well, at least the Goblin put up a good fight and got some kills against that monster!

Once Kerbal Konstructs is sorted, I'm thinking about a JSF AI challenge. It would pit planes, not against each other, but against a number of scenarios, a triathlon of:

- Scramble to engage in air to air against a numerically superior fleet of incoming planes, perhaps three or more.

- Scramble to stop bombers before they destroy the KSC (need to figure out how to persuade bombers not to go chasing after interceptors!)

- Attack a force of ground vessels (there may even be helicopters!)

The principal purpose is to test the ability of the same fighter airframe to perform different roles (not just slow, fast turning gunboats as the dogfights favour).

It's also a design challenge to make the scenarios work, which will be fun.

Lastly it's a showcase for KSP and BD Armory AI.

Scoring would be along the lines of degree of cumulative success or failure in each round.

I set up something kinda like that here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/129696-Assault-on-Pirate-Island%21-BD-Armory-required

2 SAM sites, 1 tank with a goalkeeper, and 2 interceptors

but it was meant to piloted, not run by the AI

For the bomber challenge, you could set up a "bomber" with guard mode switched off. Start the fighters 12 km away, and time how long it takes for them to down the bomber. The other two challenges shouldn't be that difficult to set up.

Overall I like the idea.

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Thats a long video xD

Yeah, the Goblin seems to make fights last a long time, I need to set it's top speed a little lower I think. It rarely drops below 150 m/s, so it's hard to hit, but it has a hard time landing shots itself.

In the tournament I ran, the match between the Goblin and the Helion was 35 minutes

- - - Updated - - -

Guys, how do I make my roll rate better? My plane is 12 tons and I don't want to add much weight, and I already ran out of fuel in one round...

I havent watched the video, but the best way to get a good roll rate is to have your ailerons as far out to the side as possible. The further away from the COM, the more leverage they have.

[RocketTurtle]

Matched up with the Shark in the first round

Ohh well, at least the Goblin put up a good fight and got some kills against that monster!

I set up something kinda like that here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/129696-Assault-on-Pirate-Island%21-BD-Armory-required

2 SAM sites, 1 tank with a goalkeeper, and 2 interceptors

but it was meant to piloted, not run by the AI

For the bomber challenge, you could set up a "bomber" with guard mode switched off. Start the fighters 12 km away, and time how long it takes for them to down the bomber. The other two challenges shouldn't be that difficult to set up.

Overall I like the idea.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, the Goblin seems to make fights last a long time, I need to set it's top speed a little lower I think. It rarely drops below 150 m/s, so it's hard to hit, but it has a hard time landing shots itself.

In the tournament I ran, the match between the Goblin and the Helion was 35 minutes

- - - Updated - - -

I havent watched the video, but the best way to get a good roll rate is to have your ailerons as far out to the side as possible. The further away from the COM, the more leverage they have.

I have pretty swept back wings, but they are covered in ailerons. I also have canards.

I'll try sweeping the wings back a bit less.

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It's still quite meh.

That looks like enough...

[colmo]

I'm thinking the interceptor challenge would have something like a pair of heavily armed bombers flying in over the mountains to the KSC. The fighters would scramble from the Island, and thus their launch speed and acceleration would be sorely tested, timed to be touch and go whether they can hit the bombers before the bombers level KSC.

This would need guard mode range increased to physics range. What's the distance from Island to KSC?

The KSC would be littered with bomb targets, probe cores with a weapon manager and a RTG. Put a few on the VAB and SPH, and a few elsewhere, anything destructible.

Currently bombs don't work with AI, but BD's development is coming along fast.

To avoid bombers getting sidetracked they could use guard mode (for defence) + pilot assistant (hold course, altitude, speed, heading) instead of AI.

Edited July 30, 2015 by colmo

[t3hJimmer]

Videos:

Blizzard vs. MIG: https://youtu.be/ZXPE8MhnzPQ

Blizzard vs. Hellion: https://youtu.be/JsDceEIBawY

Hornet vs. Mosquito: https://youtu.be/batlITwKDtg

Hellion vs. Hornet (finals): https://youtu.be/WoZSucGoQhI

The Hornet won in a close 3 to 2 victory. The two planes are pretty evenly matched; the Hellion is a bit faster but a bit less maneuverable than the Hornet.

A bit cheaty running an unmanned plane against a bunch of piloted craft dont you think?

Also LOL at the 5 sets of reaction wheels

Edited July 30, 2015 by t3hJimmer

[RocketTurtle]

A bit cheaty running an unmanned plane against a bunch of piloted craft dont you think?

That's why I'm saying pilots should be REQUIRED.

OR have a man and unmanned category.

Edited July 30, 2015 by RocketTurtle

[t3hJimmer]

Reaction wheels should be banned also. They're stupid OP.

Ohh well, lessons for the next tourney.

[RocketTurtle]

Reaction wheels should be banned also. They're stupid OP.

Ohh well, lessons for the next tourney.

Yeah. I was about to add reaction wheels, but then I realized I had dignity.

Jokes. But seriously.