Please help my whole space team

[Pinchy]

So I was really happy with myself having built a monster rocket equipped with a lab, a zoology bay and creature comforts. Delighted to have completed the mission and on return to Kerbin...

This is where my problems now are. I have 8 Kerbs on a suborbital trajectory back into Kerbin. Set a nice Peri so I am slowing down in the atmosphere. Heat shield doing its job nicely, but the problem is what I have left is a huge hulk of a ship returning to Kerbin which is too darn heavy and its just falling to earth like a brick!! I didn't pack drogue chutes or airbrakes so am just reliant on the atmosphere to slow me down.

I have F9'd several times to the sub-orbital trajectory and have a bunch of mono that I can adjust my peri and tried various different heights but I either blow up as I am coming in to steep or I skip several orbits slowing and bringing the apo down nicely with each orbit, but even then just can't get below 250M/s to pop my main chutes before I smash into the ground.

I can't revert the mission to the beginning as too much time has passed so that option is not available.

Can anyone suggest anything to save my 8 kerbals and ideally my creature comforts experiment and return it safely to Kerbin. Even if I have to (ideally not) cheat temporarily just to get them all back so I can continue my career!!

Lessons learnt... On a large hulk pack drogue chutes and Airbrakes!!

Edited July 21, 2015 by Pinchy

[Sharpy]

"SavingKlaw."

Something like this:

Possibly without the parachutes if the ship has its own. Just a Klaw with a bunch of airbrakes and bare necessities to dock it to the vessel (RCS, reaction wheel). You may add drogues for a good measure.

[ClF3]

I once saved a heavy load like that by docking up a small unit with a whole load of drogues. Requirements: obviously a docking port at the correct position and enough time to do a rendezvous and dock.

[Pinchy]

yes the ship has 16 chutes - 8 on each lab. I will have to get it back into a stable orbit then after a few passes after bringing the apo down.

[Evanitis]

If you have mono (and kerbals), you should be able to establish a stable orbit - PE higher than 70, AP as low as possible (while still above 70). If you run out of RCS, a kerbal can EVA out and push the craft in the required direction. Than it stays here.

Now you can send a rescue-craft to bring the crew home for their xp. Decide if you want to land the craft - though unless a contract asks for it, there is not much point in doing so. The lab can generate more science up there. And you can refuel it to send it on another expedition. If it has no docking ports, you can still load it up with the klaw. If you really want to land it, the klaw is the solution again - just build something that has it and a lot of parachutes, and some fuel for deorbiting if needed.

EDIT: ninja'd... by a few guys.

EDIT2: I think you don't need to be as slow as 250m/s to open those chutes. Did you know that if you right-click them it shows when it's safe to deploy? I have the feeling that 16 chutes can bring down -anything-.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Evanitis

[Sharpy]

You need to be 250m/s on Kerbin to safely open chutes and they will work always. Above that there's a margin where it's "risky", I'm not sure exactly how wide - I think something up to 500, with different level of risk associated with the speed, a chance of losing the chutes. If you have excess chutes you can sacrifice a couple by deploying them early - unless you're in the 1000+ speed range they *will* slow you down a little before being torn off.

[Pinchy]

Yeah Evantis - It is <250M/S - Yes I have been right clicking - I can't even get it as slow to make them "risky" - I am hitting the ground about 280 - 300M/S

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Hmmm Sharpy - I have been trying at anything around 300M/S and they have been ripped off before doing anything - literally get the message "chute destroyed by aerodynamics and heat" (whatever it says) - as soon as I activate them through staging

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Yeah Evantis - It is <250M/S - Yes I have been right clicking - I can't even get it as slow to make them "risky" - I am hitting the ground about 280 - 300M/S - I don't need to save the whole craft but ideally I need to save the Creature comforts experiment as a unit - the science is no good - it wants the pod. I have no way to detach it as it is embedded under the Probodyne.

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Hmmm Sharpy - I have been trying at anything around 300M/S and they have been ripped off before doing anything - literally get the message "chute destroyed by aerodynamics and heat" (whatever it says) - as soon as I activate them through staging

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CIF3 - No docking port - but the claw seems a good option. I should be able to stabilise the orbit as I think I have enough Mono

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sorry about the duplicate post - it seems edit is not working properly.

[Wanderfound]

If you want the cheap and cheerful option: reenter over the ocean, get as slow and low as you can, bail out. Kerbals are remarkably splash-resistant these days.

[Pinchy]

yeah - was considering that wanderfound - in my sleep last night as I had the mission going over and over in my head....

[Evanitis]

I am hitting the ground about 280 - 300M/S

Just another thing came to my mind - aerodynamics are realistic enough these days that drag profile matters much. Since you said you have RCS, you could try locking your least aerodynamic side to face prograde with SAS. That's most likely the side of the labs. I'm pretty sure that combined with a high as possible entry PE (like 60k) should slow you down enough.

[Nansuchao]

Can't you stabilize your orbit and return the crew back with another ship?

[Sharpy]

Don't fear the Kraken. After a landing with the Klaw save, quit the game (to desktop) and load again. The krakenization damages Klaw does to the game state hardly ever carry over to the next game start.

[Pinchy]

That didn't work Evantis - I tried that and came into atmo (70K) facing radial (so was side on) and pretty quickly blew the Probodyne, Nose cone and creature comforts lab before aerodynamics forced me retrograde and still hadn't slowed enough before I hit the ground....

[FancyMouse]

You shouldn't be returning that damn heavy zoo lab at the first place - I just move that around across different stations. Moreover, I didn't launch it myself - it was gotten from a rescue mission where apparently KSP randomly picks a container and that can be StaSciLab/ZooLab.

[eddiew]

Is it possibly easier to leave the station in space (labs aren't really meant to come home...) and take up another creature comforts module to dock and run the experiment again? One F-RRY bay will run unlimited CC experiments.

[Pinchy]

yeah - another hindsight (lesson learnt eddie/FancyMouse) - I didn't plan long term but this would have been far more sensible As I say I can't revert the mission otherwise I would and do it properly..... I am going to try the rescue klaw as Sharpy says after stabilising orbit and docking with it and bring it back with Drogue chutes and Airbrakes. If all else fails "start a new career"

[Godot]

Did you try to bring your Apoapsis to 70 km before the final reentry?

(and then doing the reentry with a Peri at 40-45 km)

[Pinchy]

yes Godot - In one of the attempts I set the peri to 29K from deep space - got boomed out the other side twice more after slowing down a lot - then Apo was just over 70K for the "final" orbit and thought this is the one, bounced along nicely with nothing blowing and then still hit the ground too fast.

I think the combination of Heat Shield/Zoology Lab/NHKR Science Lab/8 crew/Large RCS Tank + 8 thrusters/batteries/Solar panels/Food/Water/Oxygen/Waste (for TACLS)/Reaction Wheel/Rockomax 2.5-1.25 reducer/creature experiment/ 1.25 reducer/probodyne Octo and a nose cone is too much

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yes Godot - In one of the attempts I set the peri to 29K from deep space - got boomed out the other side twice more after slowing down a lot - then Apo was just over 70K for the "final" orbit and thought this is the one, bounced along nicely with nothing blowing and then still hit the ground close to 300M/S with no chance to open chutes.

I think the combination of Heat Shield/Zoology Lab/NHKR Science Lab/8 crew/Large RCS Tank + 8 thrusters/batteries/Solar panels/Food/Water/Oxygen/Waste (for TACLS)/Reaction Wheel/Rockomax 2.5-1.25 reducer/creature experiment/ 1.25 reducer/probodyne Octo and a nose cone is too much

[Sharpy]

...yes - here the problem is not the entry speed as Pinchy apparently slows down to "not-blowing-up" speeds just fine on reentry. Simply the vessel is so streamlined that its terminal velocity is higher than 250m/s. No matter what the reentry profile, and how soon he manages to shed the orbital speed and slow down to some 500m/s, the vessel won't slow down below the 250. (if he started at 0m/s on 15km altitude, he'd still hit the ground with >250m/s)

The only way to slow it down is braking.

ps. how much fuel do you have left? Can you refuel your craft a little maybe? At 10km your vacuum engines still work at 90% efficiency, and a good braking burn right then should get you under 250m/s.

[Pinchy]

Sharpy - I have already dumped the last engine stage before my last quick save - I only have RCS prop left and 8 RCS thrusters which slow me down oooh about 0.1M/S when coming through the atmosphere

[Nich]

Have you found the perfect entry? From the Mun with a PE about 33-34sh this will reduce you AP to 45ish assuming you dont explode from the heat. Once you pass PE use monoprop until 45ish and you may slow enough to pop chutes. Otherwise just go with the claw.

[Godot]

Then, probably, your team is lost ...

maybe as a last measure you could let Jeb do an EVA and try to push the ship upwards (as long as it is still in space) in order to raise its Peri above 70 km

(at least I heard about people in the past using the "push spaceship in EVA"-method in order to get stranded spaceships in orbit to reenter ... therefore the pushing power of a Jetpack seems to be something one should not underestimate )

[Yemo]

Get your PE as high as possible, EVA the kerbals and bring them on an orbit using their EVA fuel.

Then send a rescue ship and pick them up.

[Sharpy]

If your periapsis is above - IIRC, 22km, as long as you switch away to a different vehicle (other physics bubble) or KSC, your ship will keep orbiting as if there was no atmosphere. Of course outside your current physics bubble.

That should enable you to create an encounter with a SavingKlaw or some other rescue mission in a reasonable time. Of course the switch must happen while you're still outside the atmosphere.

[ajburges]

Pics would help, but I'm guessing you lack the reaction wheels and RCS for low altitude attitude control. Rescue mission sounds like the only way to recover vessel if terminal velocity is transonic and you have no options to lower that value or thrust upwards.

This is why almost all my missions establish low orbit before reentry. Allows you easy rescue windows. I once forgot to include a pilot on a satilite launch mission with a space plane. The rescue mission was in planning as soon as I saw the "no SAS" message. No way was I going for manual reentry!