Pan Am Grip Shoes, A Cheap Substitute to Centrifuges?

[HoloYolo]

So, after thinking about 2001 for a bit, I remembered the grip shoes. I've wondered if they were a great alternative to centrifuges. I mean, think about it. Sticky surfaces on the bottom of the shoe hold you down, and you walk like you would on Earth. Making sticky shoes would be a ton cheaper then centrifuges, as you don't have a spin mechanism and the centrifuge and millions of dollars spent on 1 thing. With these shoes, you could have almost no problems with low or micro gravity, as they feel like you're walking on Earth. They could be mass produced for colonies on the Moon or Mars, and even space. They can be used anywhere, including Earth. Think about this. Even with NASA's shoestring budget, this thing could be used as a future substitute for a centrifuge. So what do you think?

Here's a Picture: https://www.flickr.com/photos/blile59/4911288105

[_Augustus_]

Great idea!

[AngelLestat]

?? you know that those shoes does not remplace the need for centrifuges, right??

Centrifuges are not just to keep your feets on the ground..

[HoloYolo]

?? you know that those shoes does not remplace the need for centrifuges, right??

Centrifuges are not just to keep your feets on the ground..

They are for gravity, I know that. But the shoes still make you use your bones and muscles in your legs because they are sticky. You still have to pull your feet up, place them down, and repeat with these.

[CalculusWarrior]

I feel that the health benefits of Earth gravity still necessitate centrifuges for long-term orbital habitation.

[Starwhip]

If they actually have a "sticky substance" on the bottom, in my experience, that stuff doesn't last very long. Especially if you'd be walking on dust all day long. In fact, if you were walking on dust, I'm fairly certain that they wouldn't hold you down at all.

I also don't see how they would feel like walking on Earth if the local gravity is still less. It would feel more like you had really clingy feet.

[HoloYolo]

If they actually have a "sticky substance" on the bottom, in my experience, that stuff doesn't last very long. Especially if you'd be walking on dust all day long. In fact, if you were walking on dust, I'm fairly certain that they wouldn't hold you down at all.

I also don't see how they would feel like walking on Earth if the local gravity is still less. It would feel more like you had really clingy feet.

They could be used on Earth for excersize, as you stick to the ground more and it's harder to get off of it. For the dust part, they are mass producing them, so that isn't really a problem.

[KSK]

If they actually have a "sticky substance" on the bottom, in my experience, that stuff doesn't last very long. Especially if you'd be walking on dust all day long. In fact, if you were walking on dust, I'm fairly certain that they wouldn't hold you down at all.

I also don't see how they would feel like walking on Earth if the local gravity is still less. It would feel more like you had really clingy feet.

Velcro would probably get around the 'sticky stuff losing its stick' problem. Maybe not everywhere in your spacecraft but the PanAm shuttle appeared to be carpeted so it should work in-film. They didn't lend themselves to natural walking though, even in the film.

I don't think they would be a replacement for a centrifuge. Not enough resistance (without making them almost impossible to work in) and not providing resistance to enough muscle groups.

[pincushionman]

The only thing this would accomplish would be you stick to the floor. It would not feel like walking on Earth, any more than trying to walk up a vertical pool wall while underwater does. Perhaps even less. It would also not alleviate any of the real problems of microgravity, in particular unsecured objects and the changed behavior of fluids.

[Karriz]

Using these would only put a little bit of extra stress on your legs as you have to lift them off the carpet, other parts of your body wouldn't do any work.

It'd feel pretty awkward to have sticky feet I suppose, people would just rather take the shoes off and float around.

Centrifuges are needed to make all the muscles work as if they were under gravity, that's the only way to keep them healthy. Or daily exercise.

[lajoswinkler]

It would barely help with anything at all. Not only would it not solve the problem of total musculoskeletal atrophy, but also would strain some muscles too hard.

You want to walk forwards - torso resists and wants to stay where it was.

You want to stop, torso keeps going. Imagine all the cumulative stress in the feet. Grab a long pole (5 m at least), hold it vertically and try to translate it without tilting. Your hands will suffer a lot.

Gravity coupled with friction force helps us with that by shedding our kinetic energy while we're walking, and when you want to start walking, you lean forward a bit, shift the center of mass and your legs follow the movement of your body that's "trying" to fall down.

Walking is a complex thing and our brain does it "in the background".

[Dkmdlb]

With these shoes, you could have almost no problems with low or micro gravity

What? No. No.

Most problems related to microgravity aren't solved by having velcro shoes. How do these shoes prevent one's eyeballs from deforming, for instance?

[HoloYolo]

What? No. No.

Most problems related to microgravity aren't solved by having velcro shoes. How do these shoes prevent one's eyeballs from deforming, for instance?

Can you elaborate please?

[SargeRho]

In microgravity, your eyeballs deform, your skeletal, muscular and circulatory systems decay, all because of the lack of constant downward force. Sticking to the walls doesn't solve any of that.

[Dkmdlb]

Can you elaborate please?

Look at the list of effects of weightlessness on the human body from Wikipedia:

• Motion Sickness
  
• Loss of bone and muscle mass
  
• Fluid redistribution
  
• Disruption of vision
  
• Disruption of taste
  

And then this delightful paragraph under "other effects"

After two months, calluses on the bottoms of feet molt and fall off from lack of use, leaving soft new skin. Tops of feet become, by contrast, raw and painfully sensitive. Tears cannot be shed while crying, as they stick together into a ball. In microgravity odors quickly permeate the environment, and NASA found in a test that the smell of cream sherry triggered the gag reflex. Various other physical discomforts such as back and abdominal pain are common because of the readjustment to gravity, where in space there was no gravity and these muscles could freely stretch. These may be part of the asthenization syndrome reported by cosmonauts living in space over an extended period of time, but regarded as anecdotal by astronauts. Fatigue, listlessness, and psychosomatic worries are also part of the syndrome. The data is inconclusive; however the syndrome does appear to exist as a manifestation of all the internal and external stress crews in space must face.

The only thing sticky shoes does is reduce slightly the loss of bone and muscle mass, and it introduces lots of other problems, which have already been mentioned in this thread.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Dkmdlb
a word

[YNM]

It's going to be uncomfortable I guess. I prefer either flying freely OR pulled down by an unknown forces, not just sticking around.

[tater]

Most of your blood pools in your lower extremities on earth. In space it equilibrates, which is why the first few days astronauts look really bloated, and pee a lot as their body gets rid of the fluid it feels is excess. The isometrics of velcro slippers wouldn't be remotely enough feedback to maintain bone mass, etc. That's not to mention the period of the day when you are not active. Some studies have suggested that even a moon base lacks enough gravity for long-term habitation.

[Motokid600]

Weren’t the Skylab astronauts actually able to improve their physical condition? Surely theres some crazy exercises one can do in space to offset some of the muscular loss. Its gotta get tiring moving your bodies weight around all day like that. Your just using muscles in ways they were never used before.

.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Motokid600

[Brotoro]

All these decades stuck in LEO, and I can't believe we haven't done the experiments to test how well humans tolerate centrifugal force 'gravity.'

[SargeRho]

No, not really. You can't improve your physical condition in space. It *will* decay due to the lack of gravity.

[ZetaX]

All these decades stuck in LEO, and I can't believe we haven't done the experiments to test how well humans tolerate centrifugal force 'gravity.'

If the centrifuge is really huge and at the right speeds, there is no difference at all. If it is too small, people will get motion sickness and such, and possible some worse long term effects. But to find the latter we would need to actually put such a thing in space (it would still be huge: minimum diameter would be ~10m) and find someone who can actually stand all that motion sickness for months or years.

[Beowolf]

Handy centrifuge gravity calculator here: http://www.artificial-gravity.com/sw/SpinCalc/

Motion sickness due to the rate of spin seems to be the biggest problem, and a fair amount of work's been done on that. Sadly, while some people may be able to adapt to 10 RPM, many will get sick at even 3 RPM.

Want 1G with a spin rate the general public can tolerate? At 2 RPM the centrifuge is an outlandish 450 meters diameter! Which is why most current research on this topic involves two spaceships connected by a tether. We can't afford to throw a kilometer-wide ANYTHING into orbit yet, even as inflatable modules.

[Bill Phil]

I'd say these shoes are useful, but not to replace centrifuges. They would make it easier to move about in the zero-g areas.

[Shpaget]

and find someone who can actually stand all that motion sickness for months or years.

And some very weird Coriolis effects when every time you sit down, stand up or make any vertical change in position.

Imagine having to fix a broken flux capacitor, you lift your hand, but it moves to the side all by itself.

[Nibb31]

All these decades stuck in LEO, and I can't believe we haven't done the experiments to test how well humans tolerate centrifugal force 'gravity.'

Because centrifuges aren't a good solution at all. They introduce vibrations, rotational torque that needs to be countered, and structural stress. They are also big, heavy, expensive, and because they need many moving parts with motors, seals, lubricants, etc... they also introduce failure modes that could be catastrophic. They are simply not practical for manned spaceflight at this stage.

Most of the negative effects of microgravity can be countered by medication and exercice, which is where most of the progress has been made over the last decades.