Mod to change safe parachute speed to 300m/s

[Alshain]

I'm looking for mod to make early tech suborbital possible again. I tried looking for the safe speed of parachutes in the configs but I can't find it. Based on my tests, I think 250m/s is not possible without higher tech (or engines which is unrealistic at that tech level), but 300m/s is very possible.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Alshain

[NathanKell]

Uh...what kind of trajectory do you fly!?

Anyway, you can copy the parameters from the drogues into the mains. That'll give you probably 450-500m/s limits for mains.

[Alshain]

Uh...what kind of trajectory do you fly!?

Anyway, you can copy the parameters from the drogues into the mains. That'll give you probably 450-500m/s limits for mains.

Just a suborbital trajectory. Launch from the pad, get to 70k, and land in the ocean west of the Korean-like peninsula. You can't slow down without some other means (which I do not have unlocked). By the time you hit 250m/s you are too close to the ocean to stop, but it's just a little off, I hit 300m/s at an altitude that is reasonable for stopping.

As for copying data, it looks like this speed limit may be hard coded and would take a plugin. I don't see any configuration in the mains or the drogues for this speed.

I don't think Squad tested this at a very early career. 18 ton limit, tier 3 tech tree only, carrying a science jr and two goo containers to space (discard before landing). Seems reasonable enough but it is very hard to get a wide enough trajectory to land. You can't carry enough fuel in 18 tons and without launch clamps you can't upgrade the launchpad either because... BUGS.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Alshain

[mythic_fci]

Strange.... I just started a new save and successfully achieved orbital flight (100x100km; later boosted to 650kmx100km for a contract), with a Science Jr. and 2 goo containers (discarded the Science Jr. but not the goo containers). Although the margin was tight for the parachutes, I managed to land it in the desert without issues. Same for the past 3 suborbital test flights. I always manage to deploy my 'chutes successfully.

[Captain Sierra]

THe problem I have is I elected to slam the VAB and pad upgrades first so I could get to the Mun (once I get struts, I can build a Mun launcher, just not under 18 tons/30 parts) for the sweet sweet science of a Munar orbit and return. Because of that I have to haul the sci-jr down with me and that makes it downright friggin impossible. Without a heat shield which you dont need, you go in capsule first (because aerodynamics) which gives less drag and the chute cant slow me down in time (unless I use mods to cut down the full-deploy time).

[Alshain]

Strange.... I just started a new save and successfully achieved orbital flight (100x100km; later boosted to 650kmx100km for a contract), with a Science Jr. and 2 goo containers (discarded the Science Jr. but not the goo containers). Although the margin was tight for the parachutes, I managed to land it in the desert without issues. Same for the past 3 suborbital test flights. I always manage to deploy my 'chutes successfully.

On a tier 1 launchpad with tier 3 tech, I don't think so. There is no way you could get a 650x100km orbit on that carrying that mass.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Alshain

[Alshain]

I'm still looking for someone to help me with this. Or at least to point me in the right direction because I can't find this "speed limit" anywhere even in code.

[NathanKell]

As I said, compare the regular and drogue cfgs and copy the extra parameters (temp, skin mass, etc) over.

[nimaroth]

Sincerely, I've done a lot suborbital flight earlier in the game without any issue, and without anything to brake or whatever. Just a pod and a chute waiting to be at the right speed wich I obtain at about 5.000 ... high enough to deploy it.

And another good way if you really have trouble is to keep some fuel for the descent and start burning at ... say 30.000 (or earlier if you have a lot left) until you have nothing left, then decouple it.

[micha]

No problem with suborbital at the start of the game returning a Science Junior. Just put a heat-shield on for the counterweight so you re-enter "properly" - it's hardly surprising you don't slow down enough if you re-enter front-first.

Edit: You can adjust the amount of ablative on the heatshield to suit so you have enough weight but not so much that you can't make sub-orbit. Also remember to remove your RCS fuel from the pod.

[caboose684]

I don't think Squad tested this at a very early career. 18 ton limit, tier 3 tech tree only, carrying a science jr and two goo containers to space (discard before landing). Seems reasonable enough but it is very hard to get a wide enough trajectory to land. You can't carry enough fuel in 18 tons

Tier 3 tech, no upgrades: https://youtu.be/qd9CjGHnl00

BONUS: Tier 2 tech, no upgrades: https://youtu.be/W8bmsVSsAkY

Incidentally, if you stick a Thumper on the bottom of the T3 design and do a careful gravity turn, you can get into a 100km stable orbit and back again, but just barely. There are probably more efficient designs.

[Alshain]

Tier 3 tech, no upgrades: https://youtu.be/qd9CjGHnl00

BONUS: Tier 2 tech, no upgrades: https://youtu.be/W8bmsVSsAkY

Incidentally, if you stick a Thumper on the bottom of the T3 design and do a careful gravity turn, you can get into a 100km stable orbit and back again, but just barely. There are probably more efficient designs.

There is something different about that game because on mine it doesn't slow down in time. I didn't put the goo containers on the Pod, I discarded those too. I wouldn't think that would make a big enough difference but you slowed down much faster than mine does. It's close enough to the same trajectory I was using but mine doesn't hit 250 m/s till I'm less than 1000m. By then the parachutes won't slow it down quick enough.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Alshain

[caboose684]

doesn't hit 250 m/s till I'm less than 1000m

That almost sounds like something's a little broken with your install. Aside from KER, which doesn't modify anything, I'm totally stock. Try uninstall/reinstall? Maybe there's some leftover something from a previous version (where the atmosphere was totally different) or a mod.

[Guest]

That almost sounds like something's a little broken with your install. Aside from KER, which doesn't modify anything, I'm totally stock. Try uninstall/reinstall? Maybe there's some leftover something from a previous version (where the atmosphere was totally different) or a mod.

I have to second this. My capsules are still typically 3.5~5km up when they slow to 250m/s, sometime as high as 8km. I don't use FAR, DRE, or any other atmosphere-altering mods.

[Alshain]

Well I thought I had found the answer. There is a "safeMult" variable in ModuleParachute, however it only multiplied the indicator (which made it incorrect), the parachutes still rip off at higher speeds despite the indicator saying it was safe.

Still looking for a way to change that max speed.

[Kaezan]

Well I thought I had found the answer. There is a "safeMult" variable in ModuleParachute, however it only multiplied the indicator (which made it incorrect), the parachutes still rip off at higher speeds despite the indicator saying it was safe.

Still looking for a way to change that max speed.

Can you post your physics.cfg content so we compare with ours?

[Alshain]

Can you post your physics.cfg content so we compare with ours?

I haven't changed anything in physics.cfg. You think the parachute speed is in there?

[Kaezan]

I haven't changed anything in physics.cfg. You think the parachute speed is in there?

I think that it is being calculated based on aero values on-the-go.

I believe you havent changed anything but i did change and i want to check with both yours and mine.

This way ill be certain if its being calculated on-the-go and ill be helping you

[Alshain]

Not sure I understand what you mean but this is what I have in the file, it should be stock.

dragMultiplier = 8

dragCubeMultiplier = 0.1

angularDragMultiplier = 2

liftMultiplier = 0.036

liftDragMultiplier = 0.015

bodyLiftMultiplier = 18

aeroFXScalar = 1

aeroFXDensityExponent = 0.75

aeroFXStartThermalFX = 2

aeroFXFullThermalFX = 3.5

aeroFXExponent = 3.0

thermalMaxIntegrationWarp = 100

spaceTemperature = 4

solarLuminosityAtHome = 1360

solarInsolationAtHome = 0.15

convectionDensityExponent = 0.5

convectionVelocityExponent = 3.0

convectionFactorSplashed = 5000

fullConvectionAreaMin = -0.2

fullToCrossSectionLerpStart = 0.8

fullToCrossSectionLerpEnd = 1.5

machConvectionStart = 2

machConvectionEnd = 4.0

machConvectionExponent = 3

turbulentConvectionStart = 100

turbulentConvectionEnd = 200

turbulentConvectionMult = 100

machTemperatureScalar = 21

machTemperatureVelocityExponent = 0.75

partEmissivityExponent = 4

radiationFactor = 1

convectionFactor = 6

newtonianConvectionFactorBase = 8.14

newtonianConvectionFactorTotal = 4.0

newtonianDensityExponent = 0.5

newtonianVelocityExponent = 1.0

conductionFactor = 20

internalHeatProductionFactor = 0.025

aerodynamicHeatProductionFactor = 1.0

standardSpecificHeatCapacity = 800

skinSkinConductionFactor = 0.06

skinInteralConductionFactor = 0.4

shieldedConductionFactor = 0.01

DRAG_TIP

{

key = 0 1 0 0

key = 25 1 0 0

}

DRAG_SURFACE

{

key = 0 0.02 0 0

key = 0.85 0.02 0 0

key = 0.9 0.0152439 -0.07942077 -0.07942077

key = 1.1 0.0025 -0.005279571 -0.001936768

key = 2 0.002083333 -2.314833E-05 -2.314833E-05

key = 5 0.003333333 -0.000180556 -0.000180556

key = 25 0.001428571 -7.14286E-05 0

}

DRAG_TAIL

{

key = 0 1 0 0

key = 0.85 1 0 0

key = 1.1 0.25 -0.02215106 -0.02487721

key = 1.4 0.22 -0.03391732 -0.03391732

key = 5 0.15 -0.001198566 -0.001198566

key = 25 0.14 0 0

}

DRAG_MULTIPLIER

{

key = 0 0.5 0 0

key = 0.85 0.5 0 0

key = 1.1 1.3 0 -0.008100224

key = 2 0.7 -0.1104858 -0.1104858

key = 5 0.6 0 0

key = 10 0.85 0.02198264 0.02198264

key = 14 0.9 0.007694946 0.007694946

key = 25 0.95 0 0

}

DRAG_CD

{

key = 0.05 0.0025 0.15 0.15

key = 0.15 0.0225 0.3 0.3

key = 0.25 0.0625 0.5 0.5

key = 0.35 0.1225 0.7 0.7

key = 0.45 0.2025 0.9 0.9

key = 0.55 0.3025 1.1 1.1

key = 0.65 0.4225 1.3 1.3

key = 0.75 0.5625 1.5 1.5

key = 0.8 0.66 2.3775 2.3775

key = 0.85 0.8 2.733777 2.733777

key = 0.9 0.89 1.1 1.1

key = 1 1 1 1

}

LIFTING_SURFACE_CURVES

{

LIFTING_SURFACE

{

name = Default

lift

{

key = 0 0 0 1.965926

key = 0.258819 0.5114774 1.990092 1.905806

key = 0.5 0.9026583 0.7074468 -0.7074468

key = 0.7071068 0.5926583 -2.087948 -1.990095

key = 1 0 -2.014386 -2.014386

}

liftMach

{

key = 0 1 0 0

key = 0.3 0.5 -1.671345 -0.8273422

key = 1 0.125 -0.0005291355 -0.02625772

key = 5 0.0625 0 0

key = 25 0.05 0 0

}

drag

{

key = 0 0.01 0 0

key = 0.3420201 0.06 0.1750731 0.1750731

key = 0.5 0.24 2.60928 2.60928

key = 0.7071068 1.7 3.349777 3.349777

key = 1 2.4 1.387938 0

}

dragMach

{

key = 0 0.35 0 -0.8463008

key = 0.15 0.125 0 0

key = 0.9 0.275 0.541598 0.541598

key = 1.1 0.75 0 0

key = 1.4 0.4 -0.3626955 -0.3626955

key = 1.6 0.35 -0.1545923 -0.1545923

key = 2 0.3 -0.09013031 -0.09013031

key = 5 0.22 0 0

key = 25 0.3 0.0006807274 0

}

}

LIFTING_SURFACE

{

name = BodyLift

lift

{

key = 0 0 0 1.975376

key = 0.309017 0.5877852 1.565065 1.565065

key = 0.5877852 0.9510565 0.735902 0.735902

key = 0.7071068 1 0 0

key = 0.8910065 0.809017 -2.70827 -2.70827

key = 1 0 -11.06124 0

}

liftMach

{

key = 0.3 0.167 0 0

key = 0.8 0.167 0 -0.3904104

key = 1 0.125 -0.0005291355 -0.02625772

key = 5 0.0625 0 0

key = 25 0.05 0 0

}

drag

{

key = 0 0 0 0

}

dragMach

{

key = 0 0 0 0

}

}

LIFTING_SURFACE

{

name = SpeedBrake

lift

{

key = 0 0 0 0

}

liftMach

{

key = 0 0 0 0

}

drag

{

key = 0 0.01 0 0

key = 0.3420201 0.06 0.1750731 0.1750731

key = 0.5 0.24 2.60928 2.60928

key = 0.7071068 1.7 3.349777 3.349777

key = 1 2.4 1.387938 0

}

dragMach

{

key = 0 0.35 0 -0.8463008

key = 0.15 0.125 0 0

key = 0.9 0.275 0.541598 0.541598

key = 1.1 0.75 0 0

key = 1.4 0.4 -0.3626955 -0.3626955

key = 1.6 0.35 -0.1545923 -0.1545923

key = 2 0.3 -0.09013031 -0.09013031

key = 5 0.22 0 0

key = 25 0.3 0.0006807274 0

}

}

}

[NathanKell]

It's right at the bottom of the drogues' parachute modules.

chuteMaxTemp = 2500

chuteThermalMassPerArea = 0.09

increase as desired. Defaults are lower than that; those values let drogues open at ~450m/s.

[Kaezan]

It's right at the bottom of the drogues' parachute modules.

chuteMaxTemp = 2500

chuteThermalMassPerArea = 0.09

increase as desired. Defaults are lower than that; those values let drogues open at ~450m/s.

The main chutes dont have the "chuteThermalMassPerArea" variable. Does the game recognize it?

And my physics file was stock. i did mess up the values before but i must have made a fress install since then.

I reach 250m/s @5700-5900 meters altitude. http://prntscr.com/7z7apb

Im starting to think you really should make a fress install.

[Alshain]

The main chutes dont have the "chuteThermalMassPerArea" variable. Does the game recognize it?

Yes, they are all based on ModuleParachute, so they all have the same variables. The mains just use the default initialized value.

- - - Updated - - -

It's right at the bottom of the drogues' parachute modules.

chuteMaxTemp = 2500

chuteThermalMassPerArea = 0.09

increase as desired. Defaults are lower than that; those values let drogues open at ~450m/s.

I don't guess I understand that, I'm looking for the speed but the tags you listed seem to indicate it's heat tolerance. They rip off at 250 m/s regardless of how hot they are.

[NathanKell]

aero stress and convective flux are combined, and the "limit" for chutes is a temperature, yes. Just think of the max temperature as a max BADSTUFF variable.The higher it gets, the more badstuff.

(technically IIRC the module takes the input external temperature and then multiplies it [gives it a power?] as you approach and pass mach 1 to simulate stress as well as merely heat)

The temp line will increase the limit, the thermal mass line will increase how much heat/stress is required to reach that limit.

[Alshain]

aero stress and convective flux are combined, and the "limit" for chutes is a temperature, yes. Just think of the max temperature as a max BADSTUFF variable.The higher it gets, the more badstuff.

(technically IIRC the module takes the input external temperature and then multiplies it [gives it a power?] as you approach and pass mach 1 to simulate stress as well as merely heat)

The temp line will increase the limit, the thermal mass line will increase how much heat/stress is required to reach that limit.

Ok, that makes sense. I'll give it a try after the weekend.

[More Boosters]

In caase you haven't found help, you should try adding a decoupler to your Command Pod. It usually has enough drag to slow down safely on its own.