Private ownership of mineable asteroids moved into Earth orbit

[Findthepin1]

I was reading an article about asteroid mining. It said some large asteroids could contain as much worth in materials as the GDP of a superpower, not to mention its importance as a future economic hub.

If some non-governmental organization installed a base on an asteroid, does that organization have the right to exploit the rock's resources and tax others for the use of it and its resources? IIRC the Outer Space Treaty doesn't apply to private organizations.

[Kryten]

They would have the right to exploit the resources (as would governments), but would be unable to meaningfully claim ownership.

[AngelLestat]

Yeah it can not claim ownership, but lets said that a company capture an asteroid and waste a lot of resources to place that asteroid in earth low orbit (just for this example), then it should be laws to have into account all the resources that this company spent and charge a tax for other companies in case they also want to mine this asteroid.

There is nothing like that in the law right now, so it may be added once the first case emerge.

[vger]

Yeah it can not claim ownership, but lets said that a company capture an asteroid and waste a lot of resources to place that asteroid in earth low orbit (just for this example), then it should be laws to have into account all the resources that this company spent and charge a tax for other companies in case they also want to mine this asteroid.

There is nothing like that in the law right now, so it may be added once the first case emerge.

Oh, the governments of the world would have so much fun with that though. I could easily see corporations lobbying to have objects that have been 'grabbed' by the space craft as a post-launch element of craft assembly, thereby making the asteroid "part of the craft" and claimable as property.

[Camacha]

Yeah it can not claim ownership, but lets said that a company capture an asteroid and waste a lot of resources to place that asteroid in earth low orbit (just for this example), then it should be laws to have into account all the resources that this company spent and charge a tax for other companies in case they also want to mine this asteroid.

What if two countries compete to capture the asteroid or even simultaneously capture the same asteroid? Who gets first dibs on captured asteroids or one that are just spotted? Who gets ownership or exploitation rights?

We are going to relive to whole childish affairs we have seen with oil all over again - and we are not even done with those yet.

[vger]

What if two countries compete to capture the asteroid or even simultaneously capture the same asteroid? Who gets first dibs on captured asteroids or one that are just spotted? Who gets ownership or exploitation rights?

We are going to relive to whole childish affairs we have seen with oil all over again - and we are not even done with those yet.

Taking it to its likely conclusion, since we already have corporations with "people rights," might as well go a step further and make it possible for them to be classified as countries as well, in order to make it legal to declare war on them.

[LordFerret]

The UN got in early on this one. Any and all such ideas would, supposedly, fall under the guidelines of The Outer Space Treaty and other such like the Moon Treaty.

http://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/introouterspacetreaty.html

[Camacha]

Taking it to its likely conclusion, since we already have corporations with "people rights," might as well go a step further and make it possible for them to be classified as countries as well, in order to make it legal to declare war on them.

The thing with that is that US law is not world law, chances are someone else is in power when this becomes relevant. I gather China has different views on property, as do other countries. In a lot of countries, western ones included, mineable resources automatically belong to society and thus the state, not to the person who's land it is on or under. The views and exact laws of the dominant power in question will have major implications for the course of the discussion, though it will invariably lead to people hurting other people to get Moar Stuffsâ„¢.

The UN got in early on this one. Any and all such ideas would, supposedly, fall under the guidelines of The Outer Space Treaty and other such like the Moon Treaty.

http://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/introouterspacetreaty.html

You mean like those other treaties that have been signed and subsequently ignored by nations when they see fit to do so? One infamous case was the US stance on the Kyoto Treaty. You just need a different political wind and someone saying it is for the good of [...] nation and you can go about your business as you please.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Camacha

[Frozen_Heart]

At the moment companies will have to go by the 'dibbs' method.

[cantab]

Possible considerations:

The Outer Space Treaty refers to "celestial bodies" without defining what that means. A company could argue that a rock small enough to tow around does not qualify as such.

While the Outer Space Treaty applies to nations, Article VI states that nations are responsible for actions carried out by non-governmental entities. I would take that as meaning for example that if the United Kingdom permitted a British company to test a weapon in space then the UK would be considered to have breached the Outer Space Treaty.

Article VIII states that

A State Party to the Treaty on whose registry an object launched into outer space is carried shall retain jurisdiction and control over such object, and over any personnel thereof, while in outer space or on a celestial body. Ownership of objects launched into outer space, including objects landed or constructed on a celestial body, and of their component parts, is not affected by their presence in outer space or on a celestial body or by their return to the Earth.

This will I think be key. The likely argument is that a chunk of ore mined from an asteroid counts as an "object constructed on a celestial body", and will thus be owned in accordance with the laws of the country with jurisdiction. The closest precedent for this are the missions that have returned rock samples from the Moon. In 1993 samples from the Soviet Luna 16 were sold at auction with no legal objections from anybody. Though on a tiny scale, that strengthens the case that mining other worlds for profit is lawful.

Article XVI permits states to withdraw from the treaty in any case.

[magnemoe]

Yeah it can not claim ownership, but lets said that a company capture an asteroid and waste a lot of resources to place that asteroid in earth low orbit (just for this example), then it should be laws to have into account all the resources that this company spent and charge a tax for other companies in case they also want to mine this asteroid.

There is nothing like that in the law right now, so it may be added once the first case emerge.

It would work as international water, however better behaved as space is more expensive so you would only get nations and large companies.

Company pay taxes to where its registered. its accounting rules making it harder to obviously bleed off an daughter company in your country.

No reason to start fighting over it, just capture another.

[AngelLestat]

Cantab already explain some points.

Oh, the governments of the world would have so much fun with that though. I could easily see corporations lobbying to have objects that have been 'grabbed' by the space craft as a post-launch element of craft assembly, thereby making the asteroid "part of the craft" and claimable as property.

Not sure if I undestand your point. I cant imagine any example to this to happen. Lets said that the asteroid is so small that you can carry with you to the surface.. It will be ok.. you can do that.

But meanwhile is not complety mined, someone else can go and mined.

What if two countries compete to capture the asteroid or even simultaneously capture the same asteroid? Who gets first dibs on captured asteroids or one that are just spotted? Who gets ownership or exploitation rights?

We are going to relive to whole childish affairs we have seen with oil all over again - and we are not even done with those yet.

Nobody can own celestial bodies in space. No matter how powerfull is the country in question.

Lets said that China goes to an asteroid and start to mined, then I from my house, I can go to that asteroid with a cubesat and start to mined too.

Of course I will need to respect all the space transit and procedures laws to not damage the chinese spacecraft. (not needed because they are very good destroying their own stuff)

But all the loopholes that the Space Treaty may have, it will be modify and updated to benefic space exploitation. And this does not mean ownership, just fair rules and licensing in case a company move or waste a lot of resources to allow the exploit of such body.

[Shpaget]

Outer Space Treaty applies only to the companies registered in the countries that are part of the Outer Space Treaty. So a company registered and launching from a country which is not part of it has the freedom from the treaty.

A company from Switzerland has some plans to do space stuff from Croatia (who has not signed OST).

http://www.s-3.ch/en/home/2015/02/16/official-inauguration-of-swiss-space-systems-croatia

That would give a Swiss company a possible loophole.

I would also like to point out that since asteroids are not part of any country, no present laws apply to them. The first entity that arrives on an asteroid can claim it as property and just shoot any newcomer under the charge of piracy, just like cargo ships are protected by private security companies which shoot at Somalian pirates on sight.

[AngelLestat]

can claim it as property

It can not... you can not own celestial bodies. You can do wherever you want to it.. but not owned.

If is small enoght and you mined it all.. is ok. But meanwhile a piece remains in space.. anyone can go and take it.

[shynung]

It can not... you can not own celestial bodies. You can do wherever you want to it.. but not owned.

If is small enoght and you mined it all.. is ok. But meanwhile a piece remains in space.. anyone can go and take it.

There are no laws regarding ownership of asteroids, so yes, people or corporations would be allowed to claim it as property or, more likely, territory.

Think of it like old-time British colonists finding a new unoccupied island somewhere in the Atlantic ocean, on which they proceed to fly the British flag and declare that 'this island is now territory of the Great Britain'. Similar stuff would happen when large-scale space colonization efforts begins.

Edited July 27, 2015 by shynung

[AngelLestat]

There are laws regarding celestial bodies, and asteroids are included in the definition of celestial bodies.

[Shpaget]

There are laws regarding celestial bodies, and asteroids are included in the definition of celestial bodies.

What laws?

[AngelLestat]

These laws:

http://www.unoosa.org/pdf/publications/STSPACE11E.pdf

Call your lawyer, see you in court.

[Shpaget]

That's a treaty.

It applies only to those that signed it.

[vger]

Not sure if I undestand your point. I cant imagine any example to this to happen. Lets said that the asteroid is so small that you can carry with you to the surface.. It will be ok.. you can do that. But meanwhile is not complety mined, someone else can go and mined.

Stranger bills have been passed to appease corporations.

[AngelLestat]

That's a treaty.

It applies only to those that signed it.

Those who did not sign are not even close to start a space program or space activity. Those countries had other internal problems to be worry about first, instead go to a reunion to talk and discuss things that are far of their concern.

But if in some point they are interested in space activity, then they will be forced to signed or pay other kind of consequences.. We are talking about the 97% of the world including the most powerfull countries, you will not find other law with such international support like this one.

They will need to develope their own space launcher before.. because nobody will carry nothing about that country to the space until they dont sign..

Stranger bills have been passed to appease corporations.

The treaty will be in constant change adding or solving things that was not mention before. The only pressure that corporations might do, is put some pressure to encourage space exploration which might be good for any country in the world. To encourage that as I mention, it will be the case of waste a lot of resources and energy in capturing an asteroid and keeping it close to the earth. So it will be fair if some laws will provide certain benefics to defend those resources waste.

But I guess ownership or property will never be accept it.

That is the new way to deal with things in the future, and it will be more efficient for all companies or countries involve. There is nothing efficient in own stuffs anymore.

[Shpaget]

I'll refer you to my previous post

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/129847-Private-ownership-of-mineable-asteroids-moved-into-Earth-orbit?p=2103954&viewfull=1#post2103954

A foreign company that already has space capability (SpaceX, VirginGalactic, whatever) sets up a daughter company in a country that hasn't signed the treaty.

[AngelLestat]

You dont understand.. it does not matter if some country dint sign the treaty, that is the world law and they will force to anybody in one way or another to comply it.

Or you are saying that a country out of the UN will be able to invade other country from the UN without any consequence?

Also if they dont sign the treaty, then anyone can destroy their stuff in space without consequences.

[vger]

You dont understand.. it does not matter if some country dint sign the treaty, that is the world law and they will force to anybody in one way or another to comply it.

There is no such thing as "world law."

And going to war over something isn't as cut and dry as you think. There's the question of whether or not the war is cost-effective, or even feasible.

[AngelLestat]

ok think as you want... keep imagine that any guy in an island will be able to screw the plans of all world powers and the rest of the world with total freedom...

I am out of this discussion.