What am I going to do with all these plane parts?

[More Boosters]

Hey, so I've avoided the spaceplane half of the game for a good hundred hours before I decided I was getting into it. I play career mode exclusively so I had to devote some of my hard earned science points to a tree completely alien to me, and I did manage some nice flights within the atmosphere. Even landed on the north pole and was disappointed by how meager the science rewards were! I currently unlocked the 300 point node with the urbojet and the 160 point node with the Mk2 Bicoupler.

So after our honeymoon, I realized... I had no practical applications for any of this. I can't make an SSTO and I can't see a reason to try and make one, as rockets seem to do everything well enough. KSC isn't even marked on the map so I had to do my first few landings by trying to memorize its position.

So to cut to the chase, I see no obvious practical applications for spaceplanes or SSTOs of any kind and I fail to see why I can't just launch rockets. I'm playing on a customized Hard mode with the same income but with reverts and quicksaving, so maybe that trivializes the money aspect a bit, I don't know.

Please help me make my investment not a dead one.

[steve_v]

SSTO spaceplanes are a challenge, and challenges are fun?

Or because 100% recovery for landing on the runway without anything falling off?

I agree, a KSC map marker would be nice.

[Red Iron Crown]

I keep a small rover parked at the end of the runway to make KSC easier to find in map mode.

Some players like rockets better than planes, some like planes better than rockets, some like both. The game provides parts for both types of spacecraft, if you don't like one of them then those parts aren't all that useful. As for practical applications of spaceplanes, they're best used for ferrying stuff to and from LKO, their low operating cost and easier precision landing for high recovery rates makes them quite good for that.

(An aside, I was an all-rocket guy for a long, long time, figured I would never like planes. 1.0's new aero model changed that, they're much more interesting now.)

[Wanderfound]

You don't have to do anything you don't want to; it's Kerbal.

But if you want to, planes are good for survey contracts, test contracts and exploration contracts (see the Anomaly Surveyor contract pack...) on Kerbin, Duna and Laythe. None of those require SSTO building abilities; interplanetary aircraft can be lifted via rocket if necessary.

But if you can do SSTOs, they also allow delivery of low-bulk cargo (Kerbals, fuel, satellites, lightweight probes) to LKO for virtually no cost. And once you can lift fuel easily, using an orbital depot to top up your SSTOs in LKO gives them the range to head off interplanetary.

[percyPrune]

As above, the main reason for SSTO planes is economic. It is much cheaper to transport kerbals (especially tourists) to and from LKO by plane.

And the challenge is interesting

KSC isn't even marked on the map

Possible solution: Place plane on runway. F4 to mark it. Zoom out until large area of Kerbin is visible. Screenshot. Print.

=Map of KSC. (Did that with Mun to show the locations of the arches.)

[Nich]

HAHA ya I was super disappointed in the science returns at the poles. Imagine how pissed I was when I found out the south pole and north pole are the same biome :/

I used flags for a while just turn them on in the tracking station. Also you can use flags for an ILS system. Place 3 flags due west (1 km 10 km 30 km) at 270 degrees exactly from the runway. Then just follow those in and you should be pretty well lined up.

Spaceplanes are a lot of fun and dirt cheap but turbo jets and LOX engines just dont put enough payload in orbit to make it worth the time(30 minutes vs 5). Not to mention the 2 million kredits to upgrade the facility are a huge sink. Best you can hope for is crew transport so your experimental launches can go unmanned in case they fail and you dont lose any kerbals.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Nich

[keeper]

The only thing I go in the Space plane hanger for is to build rovers and station sub assemblies. Every time I try the plane i blow it up. Never managed to get into planes much myself though I do give it 20 mins once a blue mun. Never had a successful flight

[Sharpy]

SSTO rockets are far less hassle than SSTO planes; far better lift, much shorter launch phase, and vastly easier landing although scoring the perfect 100% recovery is very tricky. Still, recovery of order of 90% is very easy and that makes spaceplanes obsolete... although still fun. They are challenging, both in construction and in flying.

[Wanderfound]

Possible solution: Place plane on runway. F4 to mark it. Zoom out until large area of Kerbin is visible. Screenshot. Print.

=Map of KSC. (Did that with Mun to show the locations of the arches.)

Alternately: it's on the equator, about a third of the way up the east coast of the continent that looks a bit like Africa, east of some mountains and west of some islands.

[More Boosters]

HAHA ya I was super disappointed in the science returns at the poles. Imagine how pissed I was when I found out the south pole and north pole are the same biome :/

I used flags for a while just turn them on in the tracking station. Also you can use flags for an ILS system. Place 3 flags due west (1 km 10 km 30 km) at 270 degrees exactly from the runway. Then just follow those in and you should be pretty well lined up.

Spaceplanes are a lot of fun and dirt cheap but turbo jets and LOX engines just dont put enough payload in orbit to make it worth the time(30 minutes vs 5). Not to mention the 2 million kredits to upgrade the facility are a huge sink. Best you can hope for is crew transport so your experimental launches can go unmanned in case they fail and you dont lose any kerbals.

Wow, thanks for saving 30 minutes of my life. That's ridiculous!

And I'll definetely try setting up a flag landing system once I unlock rover wheels, thanks!

[Johnny Wishbone]

You can add me to the "prefers rockets to planes" crowd. I've never got the appeal of spaceplanes. I'm not passing judgement on those that do; I just find spaceplanes boring. I've built a few SSTO planes and always found myself either bored flying them to orbit, or frustrated by them because I didnt hit the ascent profile EXACTLY right and now I wont make it or will waste a lot more fuel and time correcting it. It's just tedious to me. And I dont get the appeal of flying all over Kerbin when you have all these other worlds to explore and spaceplanes are essentially useless (as planes) on all of them except Laythe and maybe Duna.

I'm glad there are plane parts in the game, and that you can build functional planes with them. But I pretty much ignore that part of the tech tree in a career game until I've unlocked everything else.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Johnny Wishbone

[cantab]

Atmospheric planes are mainly useful for survey contracts, which can yield some nice science and money. Some players use rockets for those, but I feel planes are better at hitting the target, especially if there's a landed site since a plane can simply taxi to it. A tip: once you complete a contract you can leave your plane landed out, it could be in a good place to take another contract and save you some flying time.

Spaceplanes are mainly useful for cheaply launching crew and small payloads.

And don't forget there are six bodies with atmosphere. Laythe in particular is an obvious target if you have trouble precision-landing a capsule.

[micha]

KSC isn't even marked on the map so I had to do my first few landings by trying to memorize its position.

Waypoint Manager mod FTW

And yeah, apart from the occasional fling I've never gotten into the planes aspect of KSP. About the only part I want out of the entire aero sub-tree are the airbrakes which are nice (but not essential) for building recoverable launch stages in the SpaceX style.

In my current career I haven't even bothered upgrading the SPH or Runway.

[imaspacestation]

Personally I find no use to planes other than SSTO space planes. I once went on a Kerbin biome science spree with a plane, and let me tell you all that long-distance flying at 4x physics warp is not really worth it - better just hop a rocket and be done with it. Contracts to survey or take temperature scans, etc, are even less worth the time and effort.

So for me, the only point of plane parts are Space Planes. They are much harder to build and pilot than a rocket, but it's an excellent change of pace for when you feel you're getting burned out on KSP. It's quite a challenge designing big ones that can carry a high payload to orbit.

[JetJaguar]

Alternately: it's on the equator, about a third of the way up the east coast of the continent that looks a bit like Africa, east of some mountains and west of some islands.

That's how I used to remember where it is: on the east coast of "Africa", on a bump on the Equator. Now I use Waypoint Manager, with a custom waypoint I placed about halfway between the VAB and launch pad. Once I'm in visual range, I can line myself up with the runway well enough.

Anyway, I don't play with airplanes much past the early game, but find them indispensable at the start of a new career because they are an excellent source of cash when funds are short. They are the most profitable type of early contract if you can land back at the space center, recovering 100% of the vehicle. Your costs are only the fuel burned during the flight.

[eddiew]

Wow, thanks for saving 30 minutes of my life. That's ridiculous!

Side note; it takes nothing like 30 minutes to get an SSTO into orbit, unless it's either massive (and laggy) or horrendously underpowered. Don't be discouraged by people who dislike spaceplanes because they dislike spaceplanes. They can be a rewarding and fun thing to do, and while they usually aren't the fastest route to getting your payload to orbit, they do tend to feel very satisfying when you get there.

Check out some of the big SSTO showcase threads for ideas ^^

[justidutch]

I don't use planes much either, but they are fun to build and fly just for kicks. I do, however, use wing parts on my rockets all the time as structural parts. They look much more spiffy than structural girders and are longer; I find them very useful. The various fuel tank adapters are also extremely useful, and I love the look of the crew cabins. As an example, here's my most recent ship I built just yesterday (I'm halfway into the 300 science level of my career), on its way to fulfil the Explore Jool contract.

[Pax Kerbana]

Fear not, my space plane challenged friend, for I have successfully SSTO'd, and you will too!

Keep working on it and you will prevail. Honestly just try to make a fast plane that has more lift then you think it needs and forget about trying to add oxidizer. Once you have something that will go fast at high altitude, redesign to add oxidizer and rockets. Keep your first SSTO limited to one kerbal and forget about trying to get cargo or anything extra like RCS up there.

It isn't all that hard to make an SSTO that will ferry one kerbal without payload up to orbit that can deorbit and return to KSC. Doing the same with RCS, payload, or multiple passengers is harder. But just a one or two kerbal plane is very useful for exchanging crew.

Besides, planes are just damn fun! Love the new engine fx!

[archnem]

Wow, thanks for saving 30 minutes of my life. That's ridiculous!

And I'll definetely try setting up a flag landing system once I unlock rover wheels, thanks!

30 minutes is malarkey. I embedded an imgur album, and you can see my basic spaceplane's MET from runway to orbit is 8:05. Typical rocket launch is between 4-5 minutes for me, so yes, it takes slightly longer but not that long! In earlier versions of KSP, yes spaceplanes took quite a bit longer, but with the new aero, it's even easier to be a plane jockey.

I used to be like you, never messed with space planes or plane parts, but once I started fooling around with them they became an essential part of my space program. It started when I realized that my typical SCANSAT/Ore scanner satellite with all the bells and whistles cost ~22k funds, but launching it with a rocket cost ~34k. That meant fully 1/3 of my costs were being staged as junk all over Kerbin!

Also, in career, if you play with mods such as MKS or SCANSAT, there are times when you want to put something up like a scanner or station part or whatever, that you're not going to complete any contracts on to defer costs. My infrastructure usually lagged way behind my tech because I didn't want to waste all those funds. Spaceplanes and shuttles helped alot in this regard, lowering my costs for building.

Now typically, I don't use actual spaceplanes for much other than light payloads, tourism, and crew transfers. I do have a few "orange tank+ to orbit" designs, but for large payloads I do use rockets mostly. My "biggest" use for spaceplanes is leveling kerbals up. I hate wasting a bunch of funds just to send some kerbals into solar orbit to get that third star. I have a nuclear passenger spaceplane specifically for this purpose.

I have a series of "shuttles" that I use for medium payloads. You can see my smallest one in the gallery I embedded. I use these mostly for station construction and MKS/OKS deployment.

Basically it comes down to this:

Rockets

Pros:

- Power

- Easy

- Less tech tree investment

Cons:

- Lots of funds lost in staging

- Hard to do precise landings in capsules

- Can be boring!

Planes

Pros:

- 100% recovery on runway

- No staging losses

- Cool factor!

Cons:

- 100% loss if something goes wrong

- A bit more time to orbit

- Hard to design

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Sharpy]

Half the challenge with SSTO is to make it reach the orbit in a reasonable time. I had planes that would reach the orbit with a good thousand and a half m/s to spare but they climbed for like 15-20 minutes, what made them useless. These are the *skeleton* upon which you improve, increasing the payload and decreasing the time to orbit, and that process requires a lot of creativity. The "skeleton" is invariably nukes, whips or Rapiers, in any combination but you can only get so far with these. The real solution lies in the "intermediate engines" and there is really no simple recipe to that. Anything can be an intermediate engine and each has different demands. Well, almost. Ant won't be much help. But the ol'good Reliant? Poodle? Rhino? Recently I've built a very efficient proof-of-concept SSTO using a BACC, the medium SRB.

[archnem]

Oh I forgot to mention. If for no other reason, the aero tech nodes are worth the investment for one singular reason. Airbrakes!! Those magical devices make aerocapture when going interplanetary MUCH easier and safer!

[More Boosters]

Guys calm down, the 30 minute bit was about going to the south pole after flying to the north pole as well since he said that the two biomes are the same. Still, thanks for the related advice. ^^

[Nich]

I have never considered my time to be worth anything and have always tried to maximize my payload. I seen now it may be better to build a craft capable 20 degrees all the way to orbit at 5x time warp. If I could get to orbit in 5 real minutes it would might be worth it. Although the other problem is going past 60t payload as that is about what part count limits me to. They really need to add a 2.5 m variant of the rappier.

- - - Updated - - -

I had said it take 30 minutes to get to orbit in an SSTO which it does for an optimized one. And you cant warp it because it will blowup on physics warp. My more over powered designs take 15 (10 real) and warping 2x is risky.

[MaverickSawyer]

Hey, so I've avoided the spaceplane half of the game for a good hundred hours before I decided I was getting into it. I play career mode exclusively so I had to devote some of my hard earned science points to a tree completely alien to me, and I did manage some nice flights within the atmosphere. Even landed on the north pole and was disappointed by how meager the science rewards were! I currently unlocked the 300 point node with the urbojet and the 160 point node with the Mk2 Bicoupler.

So after our honeymoon, I realized... I had no practical applications for any of this. I can't make an SSTO and I can't see a reason to try and make one, as rockets seem to do everything well enough. KSC isn't even marked on the map so I had to do my first few landings by trying to memorize its position.

So to cut to the chase, I see no obvious practical applications for spaceplanes or SSTOs of any kind and I fail to see why I can't just launch rockets. I'm playing on a customized Hard mode with the same income but with reverts and quicksaving, so maybe that trivializes the money aspect a bit, I don't know.

Please help me make my investment not a dead one.

With the turbojet, you can perform mission all over Kerbin without having to make orbit first. A well designed plane can scoot along at near-orbital velocities for long distances, allowing you to finish contracts for crew reports below a certain altitude, or surface-based science experiments.

[lost_in_space]

KSC isn't even marked on the map so I had to do my first few landings by trying to memorize its position.

I planted a flag near the airstrip at KSC to find it. That way, you can set it as your target.

So to cut to the chase, I see no obvious practical applications for spaceplanes or SSTOs of any kind and I fail to see why I can't just launch rockets.

Completing contracts such as "take temperature/pressure readings at a specific area on the surface" are far easier with a plane than a rocket, plus cheaper. Planes are also useful for gathering science from KSC biomes. They are also fun to land.