Base-In-A-Box. Expandable modular surface base!

[AaronLS]

What is the reason for using shielded docking ports on the modules, which are already hidden within the container? Not challenging the choice, I'm sure there's a good reason.

[Leveller]

How the .... do i breakup the base in a box? I got it docked to a station around Minmus. And its just small dockingports everywhere. Do you use some kind of special tug to drop em off to the surface?

Edited September 6, 2015 by Leveller
King ~ Kind

[Rune]

Ok, It's time I finally tried one of your craft Rune. Well, second actually. I had a peek at your old drop-ship with the rear stock ramp a while ago. Remember that?

Anywhoo, once I release the thing I'm working on I will give the base-in-a-box a go.

That sounds interesting. Keep us posted! Which deployment method are you going to use, simple or complicated?

How do you keep the Trident from burning up on reentry?

As Selfish_meme points out, even if they don't have airbrakes they have enough control authority that you can use the whole wing as an airbrake. When you see the first temperature spike, pull back like there is no tomorrow and watch the G's pile up.

What is the reason for using shielded docking ports on the modules, which are already hidden within the container? Not challenging the choice, I'm sure there's a good reason.

Sure! First and foremost, that way the ones that I don't use look better, that's the main reason. But also, any unused ports stay closed, meaning they are not using physics to check if another docking port is nearby. Should give a fractional performance increase.

How the .... do i breakup the base in a box? I got it docked to a station around Minmus. And its just small dockingports everywhere. Do you use some kind of special tug to drop em off to the surface?

I'll have you know, you picked the most complicated deployment method. As you have guessed (and is written in the OP), you need to use another vehicle to drop them. Originally I was using a simple rocketcrane, which is linked in the OP, but now you can also grab the very good-looking Trident, which you can see in the above pictures. But if you are having issues with complexity, the Base-In-Several-Boxes version comes with integrated lading systems, for the lazy out there.

Also, I am about to update all files, so you guys might want to hold on if you are about to use these. I've been retouching things, and I have managed to shave about 20-30% of the parts of a finished base. Most changes are invisible (and excess of lights and such), except a new, much more part-efficient node (down to 14 parts form almost 30), and I have also managed to put the control electronics for the corridors in such a way that you can drop them with the landing gear, so once installed it goes down to a mere three parts and nothing clipping ruining the looks.

Rune. I can't leave good enough alone.

[Rune]

Yeah, all done. Enjoy the mini update! It brings the basic pack down to 135 parts when deployed, rover included, form 165 previously, or in other words 18% easier on the physics. It's the small things that save your computer from melting!

Edited September 6, 2015 by Rune

[Majorjim!]

Yeah, all done. Enjoy the mini update! It brings the basic pack down to 135 parts when deployed, rover included, form 165 previously, or in other words a 18% easier on the physics. It's the small things that save you computer from melting!

Nothing can melt my PC! I have excellent cooling. ;-)

Anywhoo, I will most likely not fly a mission in them Rune. I am very keen to see if I can improve the deployment of the parts though.

[Rune]

Nothing can melt my PC! I have excellent cooling. ;-)

Anywhoo, I will most likely not fly a mission in them Rune. I am very keen to see if I can improve the deployment of the parts though.

That sounds like you have an idea to do this better than mine... and you know what? I'll be happy if that pans out. Besides, when 1.1 hits I will have to look into bay doors myself, and see it I can slide a module inside that way... wouldn't that be just awesome? You could relocate bases!

But you have been teasing your next build for so long, you'd better finish it first. Come on, get cracking!

Rune. Is it still the Constellation pack?

[Majorjim!]

That sounds like you have an idea to do this better than mine... and you know what? I'll be happy if that pans out. Besides, when 1.1 hits I will have to look into bay doors myself, and see it I can slide a module inside that way... wouldn't that be just awesome? You could relocate bases!

But you have been teasing your next build for so long, you'd better finish it first. Come on, get cracking!

Rune. Is it still the Constellation pack?

Ooh have I? I was trying to keep teases to a minimum. Nope not the constellation rebuild. That's like climbing everest..

This was supposed to be easier! Man was I wrong. The game does not currently like complex craft.

Anywhoo, I remembered you saying there were issue with the cargo release, so I thought I would take a peek.

New thing should be out this week. Just a few things to clean up.

[Rune]

Ooh have I? I was trying to keep teases to a minimum. Nope not the constellation rebuild. That's like climbing everest..

This was supposed to be easier! Man was I wrong. The game does not currently like complex craft.

Anywhoo, I remembered you saying there were issue with the cargo release, so I thought I would take a peek.

New thing should be out this week. Just a few things to clean up.

Oh, that issue with the C.R.A.D.L.E.s was fixed like, two versions ago. I have tinkered so much with this, it's becoming real hard to find anything to upgrade/fix. Maybe I'll take a stab at a deluxe version again for the truly lazy.

Rune. Which is great, of course.

[Majorjim!]

Maybe I'll take a stab at a deluxe version again for the truly lazy.

Rune. Which is great, of course.

Also, when building a craft we test it and test it and as a consiquence we become adept at using it. This, more than anything else puts people off I believe.

It is a tricky situation.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Majorjim

[Rune]

Also, when building a craft we test it and test it and as a consiquence we become adept at using it. This, more than anything else puts people off I believe.

It is a tricky situation.

Yup, that happens. Fortunately this was never intended to be an easy build (come on! it's a modular surface base!), more of a "experts players only", so with time, I think it has become more accessible, not less. In fact, the CRADLE version is dumb easy, with the only caveat of having to land all CRADLES relatively close to each other. I have a tentative blueprint for the Deluxe version that is intended to be dumb-proof, BTW, but landing this horizontally in relatively one piece without pilot input ain't going to be easy to engineer, I'm telling you that. I'm tempted to just add a stupid-er number of chutes, but that would hurt dV for airless moons.

Rune. Besides, I think it looks a tad ridiculous.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Rune

[slaintemaith]

I might drop some reaction wheels in the base components so I can control their wayward movements on very low grav bodies.

[Rune]

I might drop some reaction wheels in the base components so I can control their wayward movements on very low grav bodies.

Hehe, actually, they already have them. I'm not above "cheating", if it'll make the job easier! Pretty much every module can right itself on low-grav bodies, except the horizontal modules, which you might have to roll over with the rover so you can extend their legs.

But on Kerbin and likewise high-grav bodies, such shenanigans are much harder to do. The lab module, in particular, is tricky to handle, and as such it comes with a righting mechanism: don't get rid of that until you have it securely in place. The corridor can actually "walk" jumping/rolling around even on kerbin.

Rune. Eve will be the real test of those things, actually. But that'll take some time for me to get to.

[CrashTestDanny]

Rune - I love your Heinlein VSSTO. Flying the Mark IV right now and it is a blast to run around Kerbin in. I do need to set up some proper mining/refueling operations I guess... and maybe learn how to transfer directly from Mun/Minimus to other planets...

Anyhow, I digress. I downloaded your base in several boxes here and I'm trying to figure out what I've done wrong. TBH, I probably need that dumbed down version you're working on... I launched B1 and flew the ascent ok even without MechJeb (attached but I flew it manually). Had a beautiful ascent right along the planned path, but ended on orbit with about 600 delta-V left in the stage before the box. Is that expected? I kinda expected to be making Minimus orbit before dropping the booster... I like fat margins.

[selfish_meme]

I created a base in the box inspired version for the Ares V in The Dunatian, I have to put 14 of the things in the crater on Duna. The major change I made was to the deployment, since it's not supposed to be reusable I simply pop the endcaps off with separatons. I have not not fully tweaked that and it is a bit violent at the moment but it's still beta.

[Rune]

Rune - I love your Heinlein VSSTO. Flying the Mark IV right now and it is a blast to run around Kerbin in. I do need to set up some proper mining/refueling operations I guess... and maybe learn how to transfer directly from Mun/Minimus to other planets...

Anyhow, I digress. I downloaded your base in several boxes here and I'm trying to figure out what I've done wrong. TBH, I probably need that dumbed down version you're working on... I launched B1 and flew the ascent ok even without MechJeb (attached but I flew it manually). Had a beautiful ascent right along the planned path, but ended on orbit with about 600 delta-V left in the stage before the box. Is that expected? I kinda expected to be making Minimus orbit before dropping the booster... I like fat margins.

Actually, you did nothing wrong, you are doing perfectly okay. Consider that the "box" (C.R.A.D.L.E.) has a bit more than 1km/s in the tanks. So actually, you could probably put it on Minmus even if you didn't use the upper stage. You still have fat margins! You will just have to ditch the upper stage halfway through the Minmus burn, and turn around to keep thrusting with the C.R.A.D.L.E.

And I'm glad you like the Heinlein, too! She is a nice little rocketship. Oh, and departing the kerbin system from one of the moons is actually rather easy: just leave the moon like you would do if you wanted to come back to Kerbin, but keep the periapsis out of the atmosphere. The idea is that very elliptic orbit retains most of the energy you picked up to go the moon, but letting you take full advantage of the Oberth effect by burning the last m/s when you are going very fast. Then, if you picked the right time to do so, you will just need a few hundred m/s burn at periapsis to complete your transfer. The only tricky thing, is to find the time to leave so you end up with the right ejection angle, it's very important to get that close to the right value. That is why I like Mun better as a staging orbit, actually: since it goes around Kerbin much faster than Minmus, you get opportunities to hit your transfer angle much more often.

I created a base in the box inspired version for the Ares V in The Dunatian, I have to put 14 of the things in the crater on Duna. The major change I made was to the deployment, since it's not supposed to be reusable I simply pop the endcaps off with separatons. I have not not fully tweaked that and it is a bit violent at the moment but it's still beta.

I gotta check the pack at some point, it's been a while since I did so and I'm sure you will have made much progress! And actually, C.R.A.D.L.E.S. are also meant to be expendable, so I guess if I had been smart I would have equipped them with a similar disassembly system. As it stands, I just send them away with separatrons on one end after the cargo is dropped, to "disassemble" quite effectively when they hit the ground.

And I'm going to leave with a final pic: a Base-In-A-Shroud pack, prepared to self-deploy to Moho, by ditching the usual upper stage and fairing, and instead installing a nuclear drive system where most of the reaction mass is kept in the form of dense Ore:

I thought it was a smart idea (which is why I'm telling you guys about it), 200 parts to make the biggest transfer in the game. The lander, a Trident, is flying similarly on its own by filling its tanks with liquid fuel and grabbing a nuclear Drive Pod with the rear-facing Klaw.

Rune. Making bases never grows old!

[CrashTestDanny]

Actually, you did nothing wrong, you are doing perfectly okay. Consider that the "box" (C.R.A.D.L.E.) has a bit more than 1km/s in the tanks. So actually, you could probably put it on Minmus even if you didn't use the upper stage. You still have fat margins! You will just have to ditch the upper stage halfway through the Minmus burn, and turn around to keep thrusting with the C.R.A.D.L.E.

And I'm glad you like the Heinlein, too! She is a nice little rocketship. Oh, and departing the kerbin system from one of the moons is actually rather easy: just leave the moon like you would do if you wanted to come back to Kerbin, but keep the periapsis out of the atmosphere. The idea is that very elliptic orbit retains most of the energy you picked up to go the moon, but letting you take full advantage of the Oberth effect by burning the last m/s when you are going very fast. Then, if you picked the right time to do so, you will just need a few hundred m/s burn at periapsis to complete your transfer. The only tricky thing, is to find the time to leave so you end up with the right ejection angle, it's very important to get that close to the right value. That is why I like Mun better as a staging orbit, actually: since it goes around Kerbin much faster than Minmus, you get opportunities to hit your transfer angle much more often.

I gotta check the pack at some point, it's been a while since I did so and I'm sure you will have made much progress! And actually, C.R.A.D.L.E.S. are also meant to be expendable, so I guess if I had been smart I would have equipped them with a similar disassembly system. As it stands, I just send them away with separatrons on one end after the cargo is dropped, to "disassemble" quite effectively when they hit the ground.

And I'm going to leave with a final pic: a Base-In-A-Shroud pack, prepared to self-deploy to Moho, by ditching the usual upper stage and fairing, and instead installing a nuclear drive system where most of the reaction mass is kept in the form of dense Ore:

http://i.imgur.com/LJKxkpn.png

I thought it was a smart idea (which is why I'm telling you guys about it), 200 parts to make the biggest transfer in the game. The lander, a Trident, is flying similarly on its own by filling its tanks with liquid fuel and grabbing a nuclear Drive Pod with the rear-facing Klaw.

Rune. Making bases never grows old!

Does that whole stack land vertical using the drive pods?

[Rune]

Does that whole stack land vertical using the drive pods?

No freaking way! Ok, maybe on Minmus. With empty ore tanks. I have a whole 1.2m/s² of acceleration in that stack! No, the way this is being lowered onto the surface of Moho (and one module at a time), when the time comes, is a Trident, which is making the trip on its own. Since it has a rear-facing Klaw, all I have to do is make it grab a drive pod with it, and use its own tanks to store the fuel. Well actually you also need a buffer tank and/or KAS, because the Klaw has no crossfeed. But hey, you can fiddle with the pivot to get rid of any offset torque, and control form the forward port of the drive pod for maximum precision on the transfer. Here, a pic is worth a thousand words:

It is doubly convenient, because that tank is a repurposed adaptor I was going to use for something else and never got around to it, and the pod came up with the station. The Trident, of course, SSTO'ed itself with some spare corridors and stuff for the base.

Rune. Free Moho transfer tug FTW!

Edited September 29, 2015 by Rune

[CrashTestDanny]

I see! Thanks again! Answers more questions!

[CrashTestDanny]

Wait a sec? Klaw has no crossfeed? I transfer fuel between Klaw-attached vessels all the time! I even transfer crew via the Klaw - even before I had KAS. Are we playing two different games?

[CrashTestDanny]

ok, I flew B3 again with the payload full of fuel and you're right - I had just enough in the lower stages to make 80k LKO and then by using the payload fuel I have enough to land on minimus with some left over - guess I shoulda thought of that first...

Would still like to see the turn to move to the final stage eliminated...

Danny

[Jakalth]

Yeah, the claw has no crossfeed other then for manual fuel transfers. Fuel can't be pulled form tanks on opposite sides of the claw, passively, by engines.

So THIS is the design you were showing me, suggesting the puller engines. Nice! Your ability to make your craft so compact does make me jealous. I can't seem to find the right balance between size and minimal fuel load. Especially for spaceplanes...

btw: ingenious reuse of the Nerv drive section on your ssto. That is a very useful trick to use in space, where your choices are limited.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Jakalth

[Rune]

Wait a sec? Klaw has no crossfeed? I transfer fuel between Klaw-attached vessels all the time! I even transfer crew via the Klaw - even before I had KAS. Are we playing two different games?

Yup, as Kakalth says, you can move fuel around manually, but he engines won't see a path to draw fuel by themselves. Short of like the I-Beams and such.

ok, I flew B3 again with the payload full of fuel and you're right - I had just enough in the lower stages to make 80k LKO and then by using the payload fuel I have enough to land on minimus with some left over - guess I shoulda thought of that first...

Would still like to see the turn to move to the final stage eliminated...

Danny

Yeah, that would put the engines on top, and make the fairing a bit bigger and less pointy. But, I see where you are coming from, might be something for the next version, and I can perfectly well attach to the bottom of the heatsield.

Yeah, the claw has no crossfeed other then for manual fuel transfers. Fuel can't be pulled form tanks on opposite sides of the claw, passively, by engines.

So THIS is the design you were showing me, suggesting the puller engines. Nice! Your ability to make your craft so compact does make me jealous. I can't seem to find the right balance between size and minimal fuel load. Especially for spaceplanes...

btw: ingenious reuse of the Nerv drive section on your ssto. That is a very useful trick to use in space, where your choices are limited.

Thanks! It was a completely improvised solution because I didn't want to overload the rest of the stacks headed to Moho part-wise, but once I thought of it, I immediately decided it would be the standard method for delivering these guys around the system. And about my building-fu... I've been at it a long time. And I've stolen from the best around these parts!

Also, if you want to see a really good example of puller configuration... here!

This is the third ship making the trip to Moho, the manned one. A VB ring with four nukes around it, pulling with it humongous amount of fuel and assorted modules (lab, refinery, a sensor sat, couple of Klaw Pods...), and the crew SSTO, at the end of a very flimsy string of connections. I still have to bring up more ore to fuel it so it gets to Moho with enough fuel to kickstart the base deployment... mass injected to Moho orbit should be upwards of 70mT, so I need at least as much propellant to do that, even with nukes.

Rune. I have no doubt you'll improve the same way!

Edited October 3, 2015 by Rune

[CrashTestDanny]

Rune, what is that thing with the green stuff at the top of the center stack? Also, is that SSTO at the bottom something you have available for download?

Thanks for all the work you've done on this, BTW! I love it! Did you see my post in the other thread with the two rings joined together?

Danny

[Rune]

Rune, what is that thing with the green stuff at the top of the center stack? Also, is that SSTO at the bottom something you have available for download?

Thanks for all the work you've done on this, BTW! I love it! Did you see my post in the other thread with the two rings joined together?

Danny

Ok, by parts. The SSTO is not available (yet), but I think I will eventually post it up... Consider it an in-testing model. It is a bit too tight on dV for Kerbin with the payload I want it to have (2.5mT on the bay), so maybe a short of advanced Heinlein. But that would short of take the Heinlein's spot...

The green thing on the top is a USI-Life Suport 2.5m greenhouse to handle the crew's need once the base is deployed. I also have a KIS/USI-LF module there to stay on the ring to handle things in orbit. In the meantime, redundancy or something.

And yeah, I saw them on the phone while I was out. Nice! Reminded my of my 0.90 save, when I started tinkering with ring stations. Pic for nostalgia's sake, and so you can see that you did pretty much the same thing I did:

Rune. Great minds think alike or something.

[CrashTestDanny]

Not released yet? But I want!!!

j/k - take your time...

So I tried to land (or rather have MechJeb land) B1 on Minimus in the dark this morning... it didn't work out so well... not sure what I did wrong, but four times MJ plowed it into the ground at 175 m/s... It waited for under 1km before it started burning too... will try it again later on and see if I can get some useful feedback, but it was probably something dumb on my part. In the meantime I just stacked them all in a 35km orbit at about 30 minute intervals.