[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[JoseEduardo]

Will likely have the update available here in a few hours. Technically it is 'ready' now, but I'm trying to sneak in a last minute new toy, and it needs some texture work before it is ready.

ooooh, shiny

[davidy12]

Oh and another issue with the F-1. The ISP is more efficient at SL!

[Shadowmage]

Oh and another issue with the F-1. The ISP is more efficient at SL!

Lol... Yes, they F1s have some odd stuff going on with them.

Like I have said a few times; those engines are not intended to be actually used. They are there to test the engine cluster plugin with. As such, they are temporary parts. No effort has gone into balancing them or making them work beyond the scope of testing of the engine cluster plugin functionality.

In fact, both the F1 and RS-68 will be removed from today's release, as they have fulfilled their intended purpose and still need considerable work done before they can return as usable parts.

[Shadowmage]

Updated test release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.2.16-beta

Lots of changes, bugfixes, and several new features. Custom sized engine fairings may revert to default size on existing craft... See the link for the change-log for the exact details and the full list of changes.

[blowfish]

Nice work

Couple of bug reports on the latest version:

The service module adapter doesn't seem to be working properly. It comes to a point inside the SM's engine.

The decoupler seems to loose its top node when you adjust the height.

[falken]

@falken: I'd like to see an Aeroshell for a mars lander, however I think right now Shadow is working on the (what I like to call) blocky non-atmospheric landers. So we probably won't be seeing an DAV or KRV any time soon.

PS: how'd you get on pg 45 RealPlume support?

- - - Updated - - -

Still really excited for the surprise in a couple hours

Though I will say one more thing, I still think the F1s are a bit over powered and I hope you'll downgrade them to KSP system standards.

Hi,

The engines used in the lander are all stock engines (albiet ven's revamp) using the realplume stock plugin: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/129119

I am however dabbling in making realplume configs for SSTU engines. So far I've managed to get the realplume SRB effects to work on the SRBs... I've also paired it with the engine thrust control mod (which makes a thrust profile for all SRBs), and edited the SSTU SRBs to 100thrust min, so they can throttle down and stay lit during sep without them overtaking the main stack.

[Shadowmage]

Nice work

Couple of bug reports on the latest version:

The service module adapter doesn't seem to be working properly. It comes to a point inside the SM's engine.

The decoupler seems to loose its top node when you adjust the height.

Thanks

Think I've got the majority of the hard work done for the engines cluster stuff; from here on out it should just be creation of new mounts and engines. Which, I guess, is also hard work...but far less of a chance to break stuff than doing plugin work.

Decoupler - noted, verified, and fixed. Thanks for the report

SM -- Not seeing anything out of place with it? Which adapter are you using? There should no longer be any adapters necessary for the SM, and I thought I removed all of those pieces several releases ago, having replaced them all with procedural fairing modules.

And... today I'm going to play around with something new (to me at least); skinned meshes / armatures / bone rigged models. I have a few intended features (and existing ones), that could greatly benefit from using skinned meshes as opposed to traditional animations (the fuel line stuff on the engines comes to mind). There are also a few other 'interesting' uses for these, if I can get them implemented / figured out in KSP.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Shadowmage

[davidy12]

Are you going to rename the engine clusters to RS-25 from ST-25? TBH, I think I'd rather have the engines with their own names. Gives it a more stock-alike feel.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, Falken, I'd Love to see RP configs for SSTU!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and apparently the Decouplers, aren't the most rigid. I don't always fit struts and I think they need to be less flexible.

[blowfish]

SM -- Not seeing anything out of place with it? Which adapter are you using? There should no longer be any adapters necessary for the SM, and I thought I removed all of those pieces several releases ago, having replaced them all with procedural fairing modules.

I meant the part that connects the bottom of the SM to the thing below it. But upon restarting, I can't replicate, so hopefully it was just a one-time bug.

[riocrokite]

Oh and apparently the Decouplers, aren't the most rigid. I don't always fit struts and I think they need to be less flexible.

Rigidity of a part is proportional to mass so you cannot have light decouplers that are rigid. This is a stock mechanic and cannot be easily overriden. If you want more rigid parts use Kerbal Joint Reinforcement mod.

[davidy12]

I do but they keep wobbling around when I ignite. Shadow did you have to attach struts to the side of the rocket?

[blowfish]

I spoke too soon on the adapter issue. It came back in flight:

EDIT: Reproduced it in the editor too. It seems to be somewhat intermittent.

Edited November 1, 2015 by blowfish

[davidy12]

Yeah, that happens when I try to make an SLS Block IB. The Adapter for the EUS shrinks even when I extend it.

[Shadowmage]

Are you going to rename the engine clusters to RS-25 from ST-25? TBH, I think I'd rather have the engines with their own names. Gives it a more stock-alike feel.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, Falken, I'd Love to see RP configs for SSTU!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and apparently the Decouplers, aren't the most rigid. I don't always fit struts and I think they need to be less flexible.

Naming -- still deciding what I want to do for the engine naming / model numbers. Will likely keep it at least similar to the real model #'s, just for simplicity sake in keeping it all straight.

Decouplers -- nothing I can (reasonably) do about joint stiffness. As others had replied, use KJR if you have problems. I just tested it with KJR this morning, and had zero issues using the 5-segment SRBs; there was no flex or wobble.

I do but they keep wobbling around when I ignite. Shadow did you have to attach struts to the side of the rocket?

For my stock screenshots, yes, I used struts. As stated by others, joints are a stock mechanic and there is nothing that I can reasonably do to fix them - especially considering KJR already exists. Yes, those are pretty much your only options; more struts, or KJR.

I meant the part that connects the bottom of the SM to the thing below it. But upon restarting, I can't replicate, so hopefully it was just a one-time bug.

I spoke too soon on the adapter issue. It came back in flight:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj251/blowfishpro/screenshot24_zpslgucd72g.png

EDIT: Reproduced it in the editor too. It seems to be somewhat intermittent.

&&

Yeah, that happens when I try to make an SLS Block IB. The Adapter for the EUS shrinks even when I extend it.

Hmm.. that is definitely a new one. Likely related to the new method that I am using to store the persistent radius data and/or how it re-initializes from the persistence. If you can make a list of the steps needed to reliably trigger the problem, that would go a long ways towards helping me track down the cause and getting it fixed. I certainly did not see anything like that during my routine testing, though it is fairly limited to build, launch, revert to launch, revert to vab; build, launch, go to space center, return to vessel, revert to vab. These steps generally catch all of the KSP loading scenarios, but there may well be something that I'm missing.

Will open up an issue ticket and work on getting this one cleaned up for the next release.

[davidy12]

The wobbling SRBs happens even when I use KJR too BTW.

PS: What I mean is when I ignite the Rocket boosters, they flex forwards.

Edited November 2, 2015 by davidy12

[riocrokite]

The wobbling SRBs happens even when I use KJR too BTW.

PS: What I mean is when I ignite the Rocket boosters, they flex forwards.

As stated earlier this is stock behavior and even KJR cannot eliminate it entirely, you need more struts

If you think it's really weird try it again with a clean install. If the wobbling is the same, I guess there's unfortunately nothing that can be done at this moment.

[stratochief66]

The SSTU RO configurations are now in an official release, for anybody interested.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/releases/tag/v10.5.0

The landers are still WIP, but much progress has been made.

[falken]

stratochief, might just make a seperate install to try RO then...

[Shadowmage]

The wobbling SRBs happens even when I use KJR too BTW.

PS: What I mean is when I ignite the Rocket boosters, they flex forwards.

As stated earlier this is stock behavior and even KJR cannot eliminate it entirely, you need more struts

If you think it's really weird try it again with a clean install. If the wobbling is the same, I guess there's unfortunately nothing that can be done at this moment.

So, I did not notice any wobble or flex in my dev setup with KJR installed when I was testing it yesterday (yes, in stock/no KJR, they are really bad). It seemed to work exactly as I would expect given KJR... no flex, no wobble, even under thrust.

But, to be fair, I have received one other report of joint flex even with KJR installed, so I will be doing some investigation on that point throughout the week. There is likely either a difference in the KJR configs (as joint stiffness is configurable with KJR) or some other mod conflicting/causing KJR to not do its job properly.

To help out this cause, I will likely ask for some screenshots of a specific setup / craft file, along with logs + a dump of your current KJR configs; but, I need to do one more round of testing and prep before I will have the test-case/craft ready. Will hopefully get to this after I get home from work tonight.

The SSTU RO configurations are now in an official release, for anybody interested.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/releases/tag/v10.5.0

The landers are still WIP, but much progress has been made.

Awesome, thanks for your hard work and willingness to contribute .

With all the work you guys have put in, I'll probably be giving RO a try in the near future as well.

Shadowmage, do you have a patreon or paypal for donations? The scope of content you have made in such a short time is amazing and I want to give something back.

Thanks for the offer, it is much appreciated. I don't currently have anything publicly accessible/easily available to link. Will look into adding a Paypal link/button to the OP.

Though, I am kind of averse to the whole monetization of mods and modding, as that was a part of the cause of my exodus from Minecraft modding. I'm not doing it for the money, nor would it be realistic for that to be any part of my motivation or reason to continue modding. The problem I ran into with MC was mostly ending up with a feeling that I was obligated to do modding work... which is not where I want to be this time; it results in sub-par work being done lots of 'rushed' features, and general feelings of resentment for the entire deal.

But I have nothing against letting people buy me a drink or meal once in awhile, as it were. So if you (or anyone else) would like to send a small token my way, I would have no problem with that; it would be much appreciated.

Will get the Paypal button added to the OP sometime this week; please keep in mind though that you are in absolutely no way obligated to make donations, now or ever.

Spent a bit of time playing around with skinned mesh renderers yesterday. Powerful stuff, but I think it is likely overkill for my needs / the purposes I had intended, and would probably end up decreasing overall performance. I could likely get it implemented to be a good stand-in for the current fuel-line mechanics; but would need to implement nearly the full IK chain in order to get it looking good. Probably not worth the dev time to sort it all out and deal with the added complexities just for some minor visual improvement.

Will keep it in mind for the future though; it has some very interesting capabilities (and applications) that I might find myself needing elsewhere. At least it opens up new opportunities for solving some problems, and being a bit more familiar with it, I will likely run across some good uses for it before too long.

One decent alternative that I thought up for creating the fuel lines would be a custom procedural plugin that created each fuel line dynamically and managed updating its bones/geometry, but again it is probably not worth the work/effort to develop given how minor the feature is / how small the geometry is.

Will likely aim to get at least one more engine finished up this week (F1, J2, other?), along with perhaps a couple of mounts for the RS-25 (mk3/shuttle, new SLS style 2/3/4/5 engine mounts). From my initial look over things, most of the mounts will end up being at least slightly engine-specific. Many will be re-usable for other engines, but will be more 'optimal' for the engine they were designed for.

For example; the SLS style mounts won't work very well if scaled up to proper dimensions for the F1 engines (and actually have a different engine layout). Nor do the F1 style mounts scale down very well for use on an SLS inspired build (and in fact they look quite different).

So.. my initial list of mounting options will probably be fairly short, something like:

(stack size - preferred engine layout)

6.25m - 5 x F1

5m - 5 x RS-25

5m - Tapered, round, to be used for 2/3 engine mounts (and reusable/rescalable for other stack sizes and other engines).

3.75m - 2 x F1B (could possibly also be used for 3-inline engine configs where the outside engines slightly protrude).

Mk3 - 3x RS-25 (if I can find a good way to make it work/if it will all fit)

[davidy12]

The SSTU RO configurations are now in an official release, for anybody interested.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/releases/tag/v10.5.0

The landers are still WIP, but much progress has been made.

Can you make Real Plume configs for stock?

[JoseEduardo]

I could use a F1 mount on a SLS using RS-25, but it sure would mean moar (4x) boosters like the MLV projects

[Shadowmage]

A few previews of more mount geometry work; this stuff seems to be getting closer to final geometry.

Generic Engine Mount - 5m base size, but could be rescaled. Includes easy mounting points for procedural fairing.

SLS inspired 4/5 Engine Mount - Base of 5m, but could be rescaled for other sizes without too much problem.

Saturn-V inspired 4/5 Engine Mount - Base of 6.25m, but could be rescaled for other sizes. Would likely work fine for an alternate SLS engine mount as well (would require different engine layout and spacing from default SLS layout/spacing).

Unless I find major problems with the geometry on these, I will likely be including these mounts as the initial selection for the engine clusters (and one more, for the Pyrios boosters / 2x F1B on 3.75m; its an odd setup, and needs very special geometry for that configuration).

[davidy12]

You going to add fins to the SIC mount?

[VenomousRequiem]

What about fairing bases?

[blowfish]

Beautiful work as always Shadowmage

You going to add fins to the SIC mount?

Due to the way wings work in KSP, they need to be separate parts. And given the plethora of stock and modded wings already available, I don't think anything new is needed here.