[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[Tonas1997]

A few weeks ago, I opened this issue on Kerbalism's GitHub page regarding a compatibility problem with that mod. It has since been reopened as it had allegedly been fixed on SSTU's latest update. Can someone confirm both mods are working correctly? If yes, would 0.11.48.160 work on KSP 1.6.1?

[GabeD416]

For me the F1B's exhaust comes out of the exhaust duct despite the throttle being at zero. I've had this issue in the past with both the F1B and the RS-68 but the RS-68 is working fine this time. Any idea how to fix? 

[Shadowmage]

Just now, GabeD416 said:

For me the F1B's exhaust comes out of the exhaust duct despite the throttle being at zero. I've had this issue in the past with both the F1B and the RS-68 but the RS-68 is working fine this time. Any idea how to fix? 

Using stock, or realplume?

And log files (specifically I'll need the KSP.log file)?

Likely there is some mod version conflict or out-of-date config file somewhere causing grief.

[lofty5555]

Hi, some of my parts arent loading in, like the fuel tanks and some other stuff, im in version 1.6.1 do you know what might cause it?

 

[Shadowmage]

1 hour ago, lofty5555 said:

Hi, some of my parts arent loading in, like the fuel tanks and some other stuff, im in version 1.6.1 do you know what might cause it?

 

Hi, and welcome to the forums

Parts failing to load can be caused for a number of reasons, the most common of which are missing dependencies, mod conflicts, or incorrect installation.  I'll be glad to help track down the problem and find a solution, but I'll need a little bit more data to know what is going on.

To start, please upload a copy of your KSP.log file to a file-sharing site or cloud-host (DropBox, OneDrive, pasteBin?, etc), and post a link to that file here.  The log file should contain enough information to identify the problem, or at least where to look next.

[GabeD416]

7 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Using stock, or realplume?

And log files (specifically I'll need the KSP.log file)?

Likely there is some mod version conflict or out-of-date config file somewhere causing grief.

Stock I believe, unless realplume comes automatically with 1.7.1 SSTU. I actually partly identified the issue, for some reason it only happens when I use Cormorant Aeronology which I would love to use but it isn't too big of a loss. I can still post my log but I gotta warn you it's massive 

Edited July 20, 2019 by GabeD416

[Shadowmage]

2 hours ago, GabeD416 said:

Stock I believe, unless realplume comes automatically with 1.7.1 SSTU. I actually partly identified the issue, for some reason it only happens when I use Cormorant Aeronology which I would love to use but it isn't too big of a loss. I can still post my log but I gotta warn you it's massive 

Sure; just drop a link to it on dropbox/etc.  Huge logs are what 'find' features are for

[Teslamax]

Is it possible to use the station part endcaps independently?

I'd like to use the SSTU's semi-proc adapters with other parts I use. ("3:1" on the end of SSPXr's 3.75m station parts for example.)

[Shadowmage]

2 hours ago, Teslamax said:

Is it possible to use the station part endcaps independently?

Not as separate or stand-alone 'parts'.

The models and textures are freely available to use and reference if you have SSTU installed; you could write part-configs for them to make them available in the parts menu.  You could also adapt your favorite mod parts to use the SSTUModularPart system, but that is far more work and requires a good understanding of KSP modding, configs, and the ModularPart system itself, and has a potential to break existing craft/vessels using the part.

[GabeD416]

15 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Sure; just drop a link to it on dropbox/etc.  Huge logs are what 'find' features are for

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=KSP.log Thanks for checking it out. Since my initial post the RS-68 has continued doing it as well

[vossiewulf]

You probably aren't, but if you're looking for part ideas, one I haven't found and think would be nice is deployable heat shields that expand from a stowed state, that aren't those inflatable ones. What I was thinking was a heat shield in iris form, and it can expand and a circular surface drops in from above to close the center hole once deployed.

I would like to recover some of these very expensive large vehicles I am building at 2.5x, and the only way I've found that works is to have a heat shield that is bigger than the diameter of the tank, tanks seem to blow if any significant heat reaches them.

Also decided to mention it since it would at least be an interesting part to model and animate.

[JD2017]

I'm kind of a newbie at KSP but I downloaded the mod and most of the parts appear but a few dozen just show empty squares and almost all of the add-on engines are doing the same thing, showing up without an image and when you select them the part doesn't appear. looking through here I've seen people with similar problems. Is there a quick to this on my end at all ?

here's a link to the log files if you want it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l5bzofojmcusuyv/KSP.log?dl=0

Edited July 21, 2019 by JD2017

[Shadowmage]

30 minutes ago, JD2017 said:

I'm kind of a newbie at KSP but I downloaded the mod and most of the parts appear but a few dozen just show empty squares and almost all of the add-on engines are doing the same thing, showing up without an image and when you select them the part doesn't appear. looking through here I've seen people with similar problems. Is there a quick to this on my end at all ?

here's a link to the log files if you want it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l5bzofojmcusuyv/KSP.log?dl=0

Hi, and welcome to the forums

Thanks for including your log file; should help us track down what the problem is.

 

 

From reading through the log, you've got something messed up with your installation; duplicate folders, incorrect paths...  really bad stuff (but probably easy to fix)

1.) It is finding duplicate resource definitions.

[WRN 11:42:28.168] PartResourceDefinition list already contains definition for 'Metals'
[LOG 11:42:28.168] Resource Metals added to database

2.) it is finding duplicate part-upgrade definitions:

[ERR 11:42:28.125] [Upgrades]: Error! PARTUPGRADE named SSTU-MFT-D6already added! Skipping.

3.) Umm... this path is incorrect (likely causing the other issues):

Squad/SSTU-0.11.47.159/GameData/SSTU/Data/ModelData/ModelData-MFT-Adapters-Cone/Adapter-3-2-Long

 

The correct installation path for mods is:

<KSPFolder>/GameData/<ModFoldersHere>

So, for SSTU that is:

<KSPFolder>/GameData/SSTU

 

I believe the path/installation errors are causing all of the other issues.  If the above is not enough to help you sort it out, please let me know and we'll dig into further instructions.

[Starwaster]

17 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

You probably aren't, but if you're looking for part ideas, one I haven't found and think would be nice is deployable heat shields that expand from a stowed state, that aren't those inflatable ones. What I was thinking was a heat shield in iris form, and it can expand and a circular surface drops in from above to close the center hole once deployed.

I would like to recover some of these very expensive large vehicles I am building at 2.5x, and the only way I've found that works is to have a heat shield that is bigger than the diameter of the tank, tanks seem to blow if any significant heat reaches them.

Also decided to mention it since it would at least be an interesting part to model and animate.

I think the Duna Direct parts have something like that?

I'm still holding onto the hope that someone will make this:

Edited July 21, 2019 by Starwaster

[vossiewulf]

11 hours ago, Starwaster said:

I think the Duna Direct parts have something like that?

I'm still holding onto the hope that someone will make this:

 

I've seen one set of parts that were expanding heat shields, but I don't remember where and I don't have them anymore. Although they did the job, I didn't like them much as they were very bulky and looked like they were made of of repurposed canvas sails.

I'm hoping someone would make something more sophisticated, like the iris idea above, or maybe at least ablative petals that fold flush for launch and fold down for reentry.

[Starwaster]

9 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

I've seen one set of parts that were expanding heat shields, but I don't remember where and I don't have them anymore. Although they did the job, I didn't like them much as they were very bulky and looked like they were made of of repurposed canvas sails.

Did they have a bunch of spiky things on the outer edge of some of them? And weird emblems painted on the bottoms of some of them? I have something like that somewhere and I don't much like them either.

[vossiewulf]

10 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

Did they have a bunch of spiky things on the outer edge of some of them? And weird emblems painted on the bottoms of some of them? I have something like that somewhere and I don't much like them either.

As I recall, yes, sounds like the ones. Maybe we should have a thread on parts we still wish we had; apparently, most modders left to their own devices will produce an infinite number of magnetometer booms.

[Shadowmage]

On 7/20/2019 at 1:37 PM, GabeD416 said:

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=KSP.log Thanks for checking it out. Since my initial post the RS-68 has continued doing it as well

Thx for the link; apparently that is just taking me to the dropbox home page.  Not sure it uploaded properly?

 

On 7/20/2019 at 4:54 PM, vossiewulf said:

You probably aren't, but if you're looking for part ideas, one I haven't found and think would be nice is deployable heat shields that expand from a stowed state, that aren't those inflatable ones. What I was thinking was a heat shield in iris form, and it can expand and a circular surface drops in from above to close the center hole once deployed

Would have to find some method other than an iris; that is one of the least space-efficient mechanisms I can think of (and absolute PITA to model).  Interesting concept, but really not sure how to get expandable heatshields that aren't inflatables.  Would have to see some source/references, as nothing is coming to mind for me.

[vossiewulf]

3 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Would have to find some method other than an iris; that is one of the least space-efficient mechanisms I can think of (and absolute PITA to model).  Interesting concept, but really not sure how to get expandable heatshields that aren't inflatables.  Would have to see some source/references, as nothing is coming to mind for me.

Yeah problem is there aren't any real expanding circular mechanisms I'm aware of besides an iris. Only other option I've been thinking of is petals of a sort that fold against the rocket body, but they would have to overlap each other in some way in the stowed position, and would be visually much more obvious than something that could be stowed within the stack diameter.

The problem with inflatable is that I have a hard time believing I am reentering an atmosphere at mach 15 when my heat shield looks like a raft I rented at Myrtle Beach.

And at the same time I'm frustrated from the lack of options, just had to watch another 7.5m booster section with 7 RD-171s burn up as I have no way to recover them other by launching with oversized heat shields so the rocket looks like stacked mushrooms.

[Shadowmage]

31 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

Yeah problem is there aren't any real expanding circular mechanisms I'm aware of besides an iris. Only other option I've been thinking of is petals of a sort that fold against the rocket body, but they would have to overlap each other in some way in the stowed position, and would be visually much more obvious than something that could be stowed within the stack diameter.

Yep.  That was my thought as well; pentagon/hexagon shaped petals that folded down around a center piece, or even truncated wedge-shapes that folded down.  As you say though, it is hard to get them to all stack and fit while collapsed/stowed without clipping into eachother.

The issue with an iris shape is much the same for an iris that expands out from the center -- you can't stack all of the petals in the center without clipping (or literal stacking).  The standard iris design (closing from the outside) is obviously of no use for this kind of setup.

 

39 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

The problem with inflatable is that I have a hard time believing I am reentering an atmosphere at mach 15 when my heat shield looks like a raft I rented at Myrtle Beach.

True, to a point.

But mach 15 at 0.0001 atm is basically just a gentle breeze at 1atm, which is what these inflatable units are supposed to support.  Lots of heat, but not much actual air pressure, so minimal structure is needed.

Now, hitting mach 15 much lower in the atmo -- yeah, that'd crumple and crush an inflatable shield.  No doubt.  I don't think that is what they were intended for though (and KSPs indestructible inflatable heatshield is just poor gameplay).

 

35 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

And at the same time I'm frustrated from the lack of options, just had to watch another 7.5m booster section with 7 RD-171s burn up as I have no way to recover them other by launching

IMO you should be able to recover launchers and most boosters without heat-shields.  The engine itself should provide sufficient heat resistance for sub-orbital re-entry, which should work for most first and second stages.  I'm not even sure where or how a heat-shield would be placed on a lifter/booster that would aid in recovery.

Unless I'm not fully understanding what you are trying to accomplish?  (entirely possible... almost certain).

[vossiewulf]

1 minute ago, Shadowmage said:

IMO you should be able to recover launchers and most boosters without heat-shields.  The engine itself should provide sufficient heat resistance for sub-orbital re-entry, which should work for most first and second stages.  I'm not even sure where or how a heat-shield would be placed on a lifter/booster that would aid in recovery.

Unless I'm not fully understanding what you are trying to accomplish?  (entirely possible... almost certain).

I'm playing the JNSQ version, a modified Kerbol system at 2.5x, reentry speeds are considerably higher. I've yet to have any booster survive reentry long enough to let Stage Recovery take over with the parachutes. Even using stack-sized heat shields, so far they blow up. Only way I've gotten them down is with oversized shields that reduce the heat going to the tanks. I am playing with heat and pressure limits on.

[Shadowmage]

Just now, vossiewulf said:

I'm playing the JNSQ version, a modified Kerbol system at 2.5x, reentry speeds are considerably higher.

Stock heat is balanced around stock atmosphere and stock scales (otherwise there would be close to zero heat during re-entry).  If playing an an recaled solar system, you need to adjust the atmosphere thermal parameters accordingly (though, this should have been done by the author of the rescale pack); otherwise you get insane heat levels during re-entry.  Not saying that is definitely what you are seeing, merely offering a potential explanation for what seems like an abnormal situation (e.g. boosters should not need heat-shields for basic sub-orbital reentry).

Just thinking of the Space-X flyback boosters.  Certainly no heat-shields needed there.  Or the Space-shuttle SRBs... just some parachutes there.

[vossiewulf]

I'll check, but a number of people are playing JNSQ (I really like the additional challenge of 2.5x, going to try the newly-released RSS 2.5x next) and I don't think anything is wrong. I'm not talking SRBs or first stage rockets that you drop off below 40k or so, those all recover fine with Stage Recovery, as long as I put enough parachutes on.

I'm talking about the stages that have an apoapsis near or in space, those will simply not survive a 2.5x reentry, it's the fuel tanks that blow. This is a typical case for me, my launchers are at least 3.5m and now usually 5 or 7.5m, and I typically have beastly large SRBs to get me to 20-30k or so, and a big LFO/Hydrolox stage that gets my apoapsis in space somewhere around 100-150k with a third rocket stage to set the final orbit alt and to circularize, or carry on to Mun/Minmus.

Those second stages are big and have lots of expensive SSTU engines on them, they're reentering at around 3500-4km/s, 4900m/s is required on 2.5x Kerbin for LKO.

[danshu15]

try including a probe core with an active connection and leaving them enough fuel for a propulsion assisted landing. the problem seems to be the overall speed it takes to get into an orbit.

Personally I gave up on it and just went with the heavy industry strategy from Strategia, it provides a 75% discount on launch costs which basically makes recovery completely OP and irrelevant for most things (you could actually make a profit on the recovery, the discount is so low - so there's no need for a recovery).

[vossiewulf]

-+-+

3 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Yep.  That was my thought as well; pentagon/hexagon shaped petals that folded down around a center piece, or even truncated wedge-shapes that folded down.  As you say though, it is hard to get them to all stack and fit while collapsed/stowed without clipping into eachother.

Another way to do it would be just to use rectangles as the petals, which would stow without overlapping. After they extend down, you expand the outer edge circumferentially to fill the gaps between the rectangles. That could probably be done in a way that looks like a cool interlocking mechanism designed to prevent hot gases from penetrating.

This need also applies to pods in many cases for me also, on Mun/Minmus reentries (5500m/s+) I've been losing stowed solar panels, and anything surface attached anywhere near the heat shield, even with a somewhat oversized shield. In short if I had an expanding heat shield part, it would be my default heat shield particularly if it came with all of SSTU's other useful configuration options

 

56 minutes ago, danshu15 said:

try including a probe core with an active connection and leaving them enough fuel for a propulsion assisted landing. the problem seems to be the overall speed it takes to get into an orbit.

Personally I gave up on it and just went with the heavy industry strategy from Strategia, it provides a 75% discount on launch costs which basically makes recovery completely OP and irrelevant for most things (you could actually make a profit on the recovery, the discount is so low - so there's no need for a recovery).

I have, short of having enough Dv to massively reduce reentry speed, they still blow up. I used to do that for bigger stages at KSP default scale, but the reentry speed of 2.5x is defeating me in all cases except where I have a significantly oversized heat shield to keep the fuel tanks' skins from overheating.

Edited July 22, 2019 by vossiewulf