[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[RedParadize]

These Engines are wonderful ! Great job !

 

 

[blowfish]

@Shadowmage Perhaps you forgot to push again?

[Shadowmage]

1 minute ago, blowfish said:

@Shadowmage Perhaps you forgot to push again?

Indeed, uploading now, should be there in a min or two.  Nice catch

 

[blowfish]

2 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Indeed, uploading now, should be there in a min or two.  Nice catch

My SSTU install is symlinked from a local copy of the repository, so I'll probably always be the first one to ask

[SpaceBadger007]

15 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

 

 

 

Uterlly awesome!!!! They look amazing (just like your other engines!). A question on space x, will you add the ability to add space x landing legs to fuel tanks? And this is probably pushing it but will there be a chance in having a dragon v1/v2 added in (just an idea)?

Edited May 8, 2016 by SpaceBadger007

[Jimbodiah]

There is already a mod with just these legs (3 sizes), you can add them yourself.

[Temeter]

Man, how did I never see this mod before? Those modular engines are brillant (and also high quality models)! Mind is blown...

[Drakenex]

First of all thanks a lot to @Shadowmage , great mod!

Sorry if it's been discussed/Answered before, but is there a way to stage side fairings on the Orion SM? I've assigned a key to that action but I prefer to have full auto launches. Thanks!

[Akira_R]

So I am using your mod in 64K and I am rebalancing things a bit to get things feeling right in a  scaled up game (I realize you are doing a big rebalance and I am going to have to readjust things again) and I am trying to figure out the best way to reduce the dry mass of all the tanks.

There is the mass defined in the part cfg

The tankageMass defined in the MODULE SSTUVolumeContainer in the part cfg

The tankageMassFactor defined in the FuelTypes.cfg

And finally the massModifier defined in the VolumeContainerData.cfg

How are all of these used to calculate the final mass of the part and which is the best to adjust to change the dry mass of all the tanks?

[Shadowmage]

15 hours ago, SpaceBadger007 said:

Uterlly awesome!!!! They look amazing (just like your other engines!). A question on space x, will you add the ability to add space x landing legs to fuel tanks? And this is probably pushing it but will there be a chance in having a dragon v1/v2 added in (just an idea)?

Legs = not likely; capsule = perhaps, but certainly not anytime soon; am mostly done with the ship-core stuff until I can get a start on the station and satellite parts.

 

49 minutes ago, Drakenex said:

First of all thanks a lot to @Shadowmage , great mod!

Sorry if it's been discussed/Answered before, but is there a way to stage side fairings on the Orion SM? I've assigned a key to that action but I prefer to have full auto launches. Thanks!

Sorry, but no; staging for that part is already in use by the engine module.  Even if it weren't, the fairing module is not designed for staging.

 

43 minutes ago, Akira_R said:

So I am using your mod in 64K and I am rebalancing things a bit to get things feeling right in a  scaled up game (I realize you are doing a big rebalance and I am going to have to readjust things again) and I am trying to figure out the best way to reduce the dry mass of all the tanks.

There is the mass defined in the part cfg

The tankageMass defined in the MODULE SSTUVolumeContainer in the part cfg

The tankageMassFactor defined in the FuelTypes.cfg

And finally the massModifier defined in the VolumeContainerData.cfg

How are all of these used to calculate the final mass of the part and which is the best to adjust to change the dry mass of all the tanks?

The fuel-type stuff is all deprecated and not used aside from the ratios; changing the mass values in those will have no effect.

 

The volume container is a fairly complicated setup; there are two ways to adjust the tankage mass fraction.  The first is directly on a per-part basis by modifying the tankageMass value in the SSTUVolumeContainer module/sub-nodes.  The second is to alter the modifier for the tank-types to reduce it, those are the values in VolumeContainerData.

Tank mass is calculated as such (with a couple exceptions for EC and empty tanks)

resourceMass = wet mass of resources for current ratios and

tankageMass = value specified in the CONTAINER node in the SSTUVolumeContainer module, as a 0.0 -> 1.0 percentage value; default is 0.15, or 15% of resource mass for tankage mass

tankTypeMassModifier = value specified for that CONTAINERs current ContainerType/Modifier; this value is generally 1 for default scaling

Finally the tank dry mass is calcualted:

tankDryMass = resourceMass * tankageMass * tankTypeMassModifier

 

So if you want to effect all tanks equally you would probably want to adjust the massModifier value for the tank types in the VolumeContainerData.cfg.  If you only want to adjust specific parts then adjust the tankageMass value in the sub-containers for each part.

 

 

 

 

[Drakenex]

11 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Sorry, but no; staging for that part is already in use by the engine module.  Even if it weren't, the fairing module is not designed for staging.

Ok! got it.

Thanks a lot again for all the dedication and quality, time to remake my Constellation and Apollo programs

[Prizzike]

I am having issues with SSTU showing up in the game. Originally, just the thumbnails weren't appearing in the parts menu in the VAB and the parts were invisible. I had installed this from Curse. I went ahead and installed the GitHub with no change. I then removed any files associated with SSTU and installed the pre-version 7 release and now the mod doesn't show up at all. Module Manager and CRP are installed. Any idea how to solve the issue I am having? I saw someone else was having a similar issue earlier. BTW, this mod is great! It is one of the best, if not best mod that I have. Thanks!

[blowfish]

32 minutes ago, Prizzike said:

I am having issues with SSTU showing up in the game. Originally, just the thumbnails weren't appearing in the parts menu in the VAB and the parts were invisible. I had installed this from Curse. I went ahead and installed the GitHub with no change. I then removed any files associated with SSTU and installed the pre-version 7 release and now the mod doesn't show up at all. Module Manager and CRP are installed. Any idea how to solve the issue I am having? I saw someone else was having a similar issue earlier. BTW, this mod is great! It is one of the best, if not best mod that I have. Thanks!

Welcome to the forums!  Please read "how to get support" in my signature - it should tell you what you need to provide for us to debug your issue.

[Akira_R]

3 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

...snip...

The volume container is a fairly complicated setup; there are two ways to adjust the tankage mass fraction.  The first is directly on a per-part basis by modifying the tankageMass value in the SSTUVolumeContainer module/sub-nodes.  The second is to alter the modifier for the tank-types to reduce it, those are the values in VolumeContainerData.

Tank mass is calculated as such (with a couple exceptions for EC and empty tanks)

resourceMass = wet mass of resources for current ratios and

tankageMass = value specified in the CONTAINER node in the SSTUVolumeContainer module, as a 0.0 -> 1.0 percentage value; default is 0.15, or 15% of resource mass for tankage mass

tankTypeMassModifier = value specified for that CONTAINERs current ContainerType/Modifier; this value is generally 1 for default scaling

Finally the tank dry mass is calcualted:

tankDryMass = resourceMass * tankageMass * tankTypeMassModifier

 

So if you want to effect all tanks equally you would probably want to adjust the massModifier value for the tank types in the VolumeContainerData.cfg.  If you only want to adjust specific parts then adjust the tankageMass value in the sub-containers for each part.

 

 

 

 

Excellent, thank you very much that is exactly the info I needed 

1 hour ago, Prizzike said:

I am having issues with SSTU showing up in the game. Originally, just the thumbnails weren't appearing in the parts menu in the VAB and the parts were invisible. I had installed this from Curse. I went ahead and installed the GitHub with no change. I then removed any files associated with SSTU and installed the pre-version 7 release and now the mod doesn't show up at all. Module Manager and CRP are installed. Any idea how to solve the issue I am having? I saw someone else was having a similar issue earlier. BTW, this mod is great! It is one of the best, if not best mod that I have. Thanks!

Just because I have seen some people not install the mod correctly, make sure to fully delete all SSTU folders, and then make sure you put BOTH the SSTU and SSTU-TextureSets folders into your GameData folder.

If you have installed it correctly then as @blowfish said we need logs and such.

[The-Bean]

6 hours ago, Akira_R said:

So I am using your mod in 64K and I am rebalancing things a bit to get things feeling right in a  scaled up game

 

 

Do you plan on sharing your 64k config when you're finished? Would be greatly appreciated -- this mod is perfect for 64k.

[Akira_R]

On 5/9/2016 at 8:55 PM, The-Bean said:

 

Do you plan on sharing your 64k config when you're finished? Would be greatly appreciated -- this mod is perfect for 64k.

I certainly can for anyone who is interested. I can't promise that things will be balanced to everyones liking, however the way I am setting up the MM patch it will be very easy to make your own adjustments to make things harder/easier.

If you or any one else wants to check out the current version you can grab it here.

I have only currently made changes to engine thrust and tank mass, and have only done preliminary testing. If anyone has any suggestions they would like me to consider please PM me, don't clutter up @Shadowmage's thread with them 

EDIT: Updated 64K balance patch 5/21/16

DOWNLOAD

Edited May 21, 2016 by Akira_R
updated patch

[Temeter]

Edit: Nvm, gotta check some stuff first.~

Edited May 9, 2016 by Temeter

[Shadowmage]

So, the theme for this week is... moar balance!

Also, cleanup, and getting promotional materials ready.

If anyone has any nice looking screenshots of their SSTU-based craft they wouldn't mind sharing (can use stock/other mods' parts as long as it looks good), I would like to put together an album showcasing some of the possibilities of the various parts.

I'll also be working on putting together some composite renders that showcase/explain the modular part setup a bit better... we'll see how those turn out as my artistic skills are... well... non-existent.

 

Craft files -- I honestly have no idea what to include for craft files.  It just seems so... limiting... to include any specific craft designs;  its not like the parts in this mod are intended to be assembled in any specific fashion... they are merely parts to use as the users sees fit in a lego-rocket type setup.  For example there are -many- different rocket designs that are suitable for launching the SC-A (soyuz) pod into orbit;  which one would I include for the craft, and why would I include it and not the others?  Same goes for the other pods; there is not a single rocket design that is intended to take them to orbit; its just a pod, launch it however you want.

In the end I may just not include any craft files and let other users set them up if they want (such as Jimbodiahs craft thread).

[tater]

There are some issues with the engines and impact.

Make a craft, and put a launch stability enhancer on it, and drag it as high as it goes in the VAB. Place an engine on the bottom. Drop test. Impact in my tests was over 30 m/s.

Stock engines blow up on impact. SSTU engines bounce. Pad destroyed, craft bounces. I was too lazy to test all, but the 5 I tried all did this. None of the stock engines did.

I added a github comment in the appropriate thread. I'm unsure why stock is different in this regard, but it's a problem. I noticed last night when I used a crasher stage on a munar lander, and as I was landing, I passed it going UP (after a bounce) as I was descending.

[tater]

Is this like kerbals being indestructible if they land on their heads?

[Shadowmage]

21 minutes ago, tater said:

There are some issues with the engines and impact.

Make a craft, and put a launch stability enhancer on it, and drag it as high as it goes in the VAB. Place an engine on the bottom. Drop test. Impact in my tests was over 30 m/s.

Stock engines blow up on impact. SSTU engines bounce. Pad destroyed, craft bounces. I was too lazy to test all, but the 5 I tried all did this. None of the stock engines did.

I added a github comment in the appropriate thread. I'm unsure why stock is different in this regard, but it's a problem. I noticed last night when I used a crasher stage on a munar lander, and as I was landing, I passed it going UP (after a bounce) as I was descending.

Known issue, and already fixed.....

As posted on the github issue; this is a stock bug in that it only allows for a single collider to respond to collisions and trigger explosions -and- this collider must be manually set to the part.collider field, which stock does not handle for modular parts (it has some retarded handling of only setting that collider up in the prefab part).

Already fixed in dev code as best I can given the problems with the stock implementation.  Will be available with the next update (likely this weekend)..

 

However, as noted, this is a stock bug that effects -many- stock parts.  Anything with multiple colliders.  Likely several of the engines as well.  Take a stock cuppola module and drop it on its top -- it is quite indestructible.  Drop it on its bottom and it explodes just fine.

 

 

[tater]

I added a note on the KSP bug tracker that this is a Mac issue as well, it's not windows specific (in case they care).

I tested several stock engines, they all blew up. Wonder if it is "sided" somehow (a preferential direction).

Edited May 9, 2016 by tater

[Shadowmage]

Just now, tater said:

I added a note on the KSP bug tracker that this is a Mac issue as well, it's not windows specific (in case they care).

Thanks

Every little bit of info helps.  Going to update the issue as 'confirmed' so that it will get a bit more attention when the devs' get back from vacation.

[tater]

I did a version of your experiment with the cupola on my laptop at lunch (mk1-2/medium tank/cupola). It blew up. Tried it with both directions. I did the same with stock engines upside down. Blew up. Tried the stock cupola alone. It blew up.

Your engines bounce.

I'm not seeing it stock. 

[Jimbodiah]

Chutes are for noobs!