[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[Shadowmage]

M1 is already on my info/spec list. No idea if I'll actually end up doing it or not. There is actually quite a bit of info available on that one if you dig deep enough (including several Apollo-era declassified design documents).

[URL]https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8d1azuy5cn03mwm/AADRwGkYvg_IguAuDaFF84Eia?dl=0[/URL]

[_Augustus_]

[quote name='Shadowmage']M1 is already on my info/spec list. No idea if I'll actually end up doing it or not. There is actually quite a bit of info available on that one if you dig deep enough (including several Apollo-era declassified design documents).

[URL]https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8d1azuy5cn03mwm/AADRwGkYvg_IguAuDaFF84Eia?dl=0[/URL][/QUOTE] That's all that I found while searching for images. Please do it though so people can make the Nova!

[blowfish]

[quote name='_Augustus_']Please do it though so people can make the Nova![/QUOTE]

If it's mainly for a single (never flown!) historical replica then I would say it shouldn't be a high priority. Most of the engines Shadowmage has worked on thus far have had wide applicability to a lot of use cases. A very high thrust upper stage is a lot less versatile though.

[A1Ch1]

[quote name='blowfish']If it's mainly for a single (never flown!) historical replica then I would say it shouldn't be a high priority. Most of the engines Shadowmage has worked on thus far have had wide applicability to a lot of use cases. A very high thrust upper stage is a lot less versatile though.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree re: versatility. (Personally I'd like to see a BE-3 and BE-4. Plenty of pictures, even if we don't have exact performance data :)

[Shadowmage]

Hmm... before I get too far in on these...

What level of detail would be preferred for the motor mounts?

Would rather set the precedence now, and keep things consistent through the rest of the work (as I've tried to do with the engines thus far).

(semi) High detail mounts:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/qxv5wdL.png[/img]

Medium detail:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/jQqI4b7.png[/img]

Super-Low detail:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/FRIFnqw.png[/img]


Will probably update the existing mounts a bit as I can / redo them (will need to work on the textures either way). Really they were a quick pass at the initial geometry, and I think they could stand for a bit more detail (at least in the texture, if nothing else).

[VenomousRequiem]

High detail, just like all your other work, Shadow. ;3

[JoseEduardo]

the hight detail one is awesome :D

btw, one idea for engine mount re-work, if you release a stabilizer later, could you make the Saturn and Pyrios mouts have nodes to attach these? like KW does for the F-1 mount

[blowfish]

[quote name='JoseEduardo']the hight detail one is awesome :D

btw, one idea for engine mount re-work, if you release a stabilizer later, could you make the Saturn and Pyrios mouts have nodes to attach these? like KW does for the F-1 mount[/QUOTE]
Why do there need to be nodes? Doesn't surface attachment allow more flexibility?

[JoseEduardo]

what flexibility would you get from a S-IC mount with 4 aerodynamic shrouds?

btw, I tried using surface attached fins but since it is inclined their behavior changed, hence why I added a config for RO that if KW is present, mounts using S-IC mount would get an node for the fins (if you don't have KW they won't appear)

[blowfish]

[quote name='JoseEduardo']btw, I tried using surface attached fins but since it is inclined their behavior changed[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a collider issue to me. In order for things to attach at the correct angle there needs to be a flat face on the collider there.

[Shadowmage]

There is a flat face, properly angled even, at the point where the fins should attach. Don't have Unity on my work comp, so can't do any screenshots... but AFAIK the collider is setup properly. He is likely just hitting one of the stock quirks regarding symmetry/face angles. There are quite a few... Honestly, I never tried attaching fins (deleted all aero parts from my dev setup, so could not even if I wanted to), but I also never had a need to during my testing; it seemed to fly straight without them (just keep the speed below 350m/s while below 10k, low-twr shallow ascent).

Nodes -- I was not really a fan of the KW rocketry way to do these, but maybe they had a reason? :)

[Shadowmage]

Made some good progress on the mounts last night. Looks like I should have 3-6 new mounts with the next release, including a decent selection of fairly detailed upper-stage mounts (lifter oriented mounts will still be very basic; there is really not room for extra detail in their geometry (without killing the aerodynamic look), and they only stick around for the first minute or two of the flight, while upper stages might be around for the duration of the craft).

Also got the majority of the existing bugs squashed last night. Still a few that I'll have to tackle Saturday morning, but overall in a much better state than it was yesterday.

So, this weeks additions will be the J-2 engine (and clusters), an increased selection of mounting options for all of the engine clusters, tons of code-side cleanup, and an official 1.05 .dll recompile/update (to match the ablator and solar panel updates from stock) (might offer the 1.05 dll as a side-download; so as to not break the 1.04 compatibility quite yet).

Have updated the OP with more detailed list of the plans and timeline for the mod (for at least the next couple of releases). Please look it over before requesting features (especially 'can you do this next' type of requests), as I will not be deviating from the set up schedule without good cause (or my ADD/boredom kicking in and making me work on something 'new'). I'm still open to new requests and ideas, but please keep the above in mind before posting them. Trying to get a handle on the feature/part creep, and get things moving along towards some level of 'completeness'. I can always add more engines/mounts/whatever later after the initial dev work is done.

In short: I will be finishing up the RS-68 and H1 engines, and moving on to the upper-stage stuff. Any further engines will be waiting until -after- the upper stage stuff is complete (so the J-2X, any others, will be waiting). Aiming to get the upper stage stuff, and release 0.3.x, complete -before- KSP 1.1 hits. If, after that, there is time remaining before 1.1 lands, at that point I will return to trying to get a few more engines complete while I wait for the update (and all the breakage it will bring).



Also have a new concept that I would like to share / get a bit of feedback on --

Pre-built symmetry parts for solar panels, RCS, landing-legs, ??.

These would essentially be a single editor-part (each... one for each type of solar panel, one for each model of rcs) that would contain a full set the models (e.g. would contain 2, 3 or 4 solar panels, or 2 or 4 rcs ports). Would be surface attachable, and would have a built-in adjustment to set the 'radius' to use for the symmetry (similar to the radial-booster-decoupler that allows you to set the radius). If I do the plugin side of things right, these could work like the engine clusters and allow you to use stock/other mods' parts/models in the pre-built symmetry part.

Parts that require symmetry (such as RCS) are one of the last bits of the 'too many parts in use' problem that I would like to find a way to solve. Disappointing that you 'need' RCS but it takes at least 2 parts to get even the most minimal RCS setup balanced. (technically it is not 'needed', as I've done lots of RV/dockings without, but is -very- helpful :) )

Anyhow, just a thought/idea at this point; still have many other things planned/started that need to be finished up before I would even think of starting on these (and quite a bit more concept development/testing/prototyping to do on them as well).

[JoseEduardo]

You do realize a few pages from now people will forget/not see and ask that, right? :P

btw, with the x.4.x you say LC-SKY (which I assume are skycranes, right? also, any aeroshell plans? :P ) and SM.... these SM... are they service modules? like the one with the round solar panels for Orion? or the first version that was almost a ripoff from Apollo? or even Apollo itself? :P

[davidy12]

I agree, an apollo csm would be amazing. :D

[Shadowmage]

[quote name='JoseEduardo']You do realize a few pages from now people will forget/not see and ask that, right? :P

btw, with the x.4.x you say LC-SKY (which I assume are skycranes, right? also, any aeroshell plans? :P ) and SM.... these SM... are they service modules? like the one with the round solar panels for Orion? or the first version that was almost a ripoff from Apollo? or even Apollo itself? :P[/QUOTE]

Yah, I'm sure they will. And I'll probably just start ignoring people; takes too much time responding to every little post. If they can't be bothered to read the OP, I can't be bothered to respond to them.


LC-SKY = skycrane modules; fuel sections with deployable engines - so they can fit in the same fairing as the payload, and not roast it with the engine exhaust.

LC-SM = Lander-Core service modules. RCS/solar/science/KIS storage/Fuel (for those deployable rovers, yah know). Basically a fuel section with a slightly different model and some pre-integrated bits; will likely not offer a hollow variety.

[quote name='davidy12']I agree, an apollo csm would be amazing. :D[/QUOTE]

Had a few requests for this lately; might consider re-doing it at some point in the future..... probably when I'm working on the general purpose (rocket) Service Modules.

[JoseEduardo]

[quote name='Shadowmage']LC-SKY = skycrane modules; fuel sections with deployable engines - so they can fit in the same fairing as the payload, and not roast it with the engine exhaust.

LC-SM = Lander-Core service modules. RCS/solar/science/KIS storage/Fuel (for those deployable rovers, yah know). Basically a fuel section with a slightly different model and some pre-integrated bits; will likely not offer a hollow variety.[/QUOTE]

@LC-SKY: As long as I am still free to make an Aeroshell and have a lander probe cooked that would be great :P

@LC-SM (more specifically the rover part)
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/CirAIi8.jpg[/IMG]

I can already see Jeb doing races against Valentina :D

EDIT: Apollo CSM+Saturn V+Saturn MLV (except for the UA120x boosters)+lunar rover+Orion MPCV+SLS+landers+customizable tanks, engine clusters and mounts (NOVA MM 1C FTW)+reduced part count+good loking models+future payloads and stations = best...mod....EV4R Edited November 18, 2015 by JoseEduardo

[Jimbodiah]

The parts in images 65-67, are those in the mod or future releases?

[Shadowmage]

[quote name='Jimbodiah']The parts in images 65-67, are those in the mod or future releases?[/QUOTE]

Not quite sure which images you are referring to, as I post a ton of them. The most recent posted renders would be the RL-10 engines (available in current releases), J-2 engine (finished in dev, will be available on Saturday), and the new motor mount concept shots (current development project, should likely be available Saturday as well).

[COLOR="silver"][SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE][/COLOR]

And, just to throw some more pics out there -- some updated renders of the more recent mount concepts/developments:

NOVA mount, at ~9.6m KSP scale (~15m RSS scale). This mount should be usable as a generic lower-stage/lifter mount as well for smaller stack sizes/other engines.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4Qly8xA.png[/img]

DIRECT RS-25 mount. Basic in-line lower stage/lifter mount. Shown is 5m KSP scale, though could certainly be rescaled for use by other motors/stack sizes.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/6GixaJH.png[/img]


It is looking like the next selection of mounts will be (inspired by) S-II, S-IVB, NOVA, and DIRECT. Will -possibly- do some 'rounded' upper-stage mounts for another release/in the future (e.g. Centaur) (really, kind of need to get working on the upper-stage stuff first, so that I know what mounts will be needed/how they will interact with the US's).

[JoseEduardo]

I don't speak for everybody, but at least on my part being able to make Saturn V, Saturn MLV, SLS, Jupiter, Nova (especially the "cute" things MM 1B and 1C :D btw, I have layouts for them, 14 and 18 F-1 respectivelly, if you want I could send the layout to you, for stock I think these would be 12.5m, just for the lulz and pad blowing up), Saturn C-3/C-3B/C-4/C-4B, plus the Saturn LRB and the Pyrios boosters and a few others that I might be forgetting is freaking awesome already :D

Plus Jarvis, which the first two stages can be done already, but with the tweakable upper stage even the Orbiter ones can be made :D

EDIT: btw, I think he's talking about the album, pic 65 is an lander IVA and 66 to 68 are some trusses and solar panels (and yeah, now that I have seen that I kinda want to know what are those :P ) Edited November 19, 2015 by JoseEduardo

[Shadowmage]

[quote name='JoseEduardo'][snip]

EDIT: btw, I think he's talking about the album, pic 65 is an lander IVA and 66 to 68 are some trusses and solar panels (and yeah, now that I have seen that I kinda want to know what are those :P )[/QUOTE]

Ahh, yes, the station parts, seems likely :)

No, those are not -yet- available in-game. It was some early concept work I did just to see how it would all look, and some of the possible parts I could/should make, probably about two months ago. At the time, it was supposed to have been -next- to make, but I think I then got into the engine clusters or something (or was it the custom tanks, srbs and engines?). I've since re-arranged my schedule/plans a bit, and they've been slotted into the 0.5.x release I believe. So, realistically, likely sometime in March+ of 2016 before I will be able to get to them.

Have a whole line of station parts that I will likely be doing up, in the aims of reducing station part-count. Just haven't been able to get to them yet :)

[Shadowmage]

Mounts are progressing nicely:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/iPjJooz.png[/img]

Little bit more to do on these two mounts, and quite a bit left on the other two, but will likely have their textures wrapped up tomorrow.

[riocrokite]

nice! awesome progress :)

[_Augustus_]

[quote name='Shadowmage']Mounts are progressing nicely:

[URL]http://i.imgur.com/iPjJooz.png[/URL]

Little bit more to do on these two mounts, and quite a bit left on the other two, but will likely have their textures wrapped up tomorrow.[/QUOTE] Maybe make the green a little more olive?

Also, the engine arrangement on the Nova mount isn't quite right. It should be a + shape.

[JoseEduardo]

the kid speaks the truth:
[IMG]http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/blogs/6a00d8341bf67c53ef016767d0092f970b-800wi.jpg[/IMG]

but since there were many Nova designs, even with 14 F1 and 18 F1 both deployed in two rings, I think the circular one could be very useful for custom rockets

EDIT: speaking of circular 8x F-1 designs, here's one: [URL]http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/nova8l.htm[/URL] Edited November 19, 2015 by JoseEduardo

[Jimbodiah]

Would it be possible to have a LF and MonoProp selection on the fuel tanks besides only LF/Ox? The round tank sections have the option for LF, but not the orange fuel packs. Would be awesome to have a choice so you can make your own setup with the fuel packs.

[COLOR="silver"][SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[quote name='Shadowmage']Ahh, yes, the station parts, seems likely :)

No, those are not -yet- available in-game. It was some early concept work I did just to see how it would all look, and some of the possible parts I could/should make, probably about two months ago.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Mage!!! Looking forward to them. Making rockets is fun with your parts.