[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[123nick]

13 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

Talking about tank volumes... There is 2x capacity difference on LH2-only tanks between SSTU and all other tanks with LH2 switch (stock and Nertea's tanks), where SSTU has 50% of the LH2 capacity.

thats... odd? i just have MFT so parts have fixed volume, but you can store more arbitrary units of LH2 in a fuel tank then other , non-compressible fuels

 

[Natskyge]

How would i go about getting this mod to work with Realisme Overhaul? I am a total noob at installing mods so please help me out.

[blowfish]

1 hour ago, Natskyge said:

How would i go about getting this mod to work with Realisme Overhaul? I am a total noob at installing mods so please help me out.

RO has compatibility configs built it.  They're not going to be 100% up to date, but they will be there (and since this mod is in development, anything can break at any time).  You might want to look at getting development versions of RO which will be more up to date, but here isn't the place to ask about that.

[Jimbodiah]

If anyone is interested... I made new clusters for the J-2X (2/3/4/5 with Direct mounts on 3/4) and the Merlin 1B (2/3/4/5/6/7/9, Direct mounts on 2/3/4). They are just intermediates until Mage makes the original ones.

http://kerbal.nl/sstu/Clusters.rar

 

[ComatoseJedi]

2 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

If anyone is interested... I made new clusters for the J-2X (2/3/4/5 with Direct mounts on 3/4) and the Merlin 1B (2/3/4/5/6/7/9, Direct mounts on 2/3/4). They are just intermediates until Mage makes the original ones.

http://kerbal.nl/sstu/Clusters.rar

 

*spams the rep button*

[Jimbodiah]

Spamming right back

[Jimbodiah]

A little SSTU plugging    Maybe add some info to the wiki or to a future release post to make a nice sales pitch 
 

 

[Shadowmage]

18 hours ago, 123nick said:

i....think so? its from something, ive noticed it on wing parts, too, and those also seem too store unusually high ammounts of fuel, so i dont store fuel in wings. its from something.

As stated, there appears to be an implementation detail that needs to be fixed regarding MFT support / interaction. 

Would you mind posting an image of the standard MFT-A tank (2.5m diameter) fuel quantities versus the stock Orange tank fuel quantities?  This should give me a baseline comparison to tell what is going on (comparing the values on two different shaped/sized tanks does no good).

 

18 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

Talking about tank volumes... There is 2x capacity difference on LH2-only tanks between SSTU and all other tanks with LH2 switch (stock and Nertea's tanks), where SSTU has 50% of the LH2 capacity.

Strange -- they are calculated by volume; volume is volume is volume.  So either I have some incorrect volume data for LH2/LH2O, or other people are putting magically large amounts of fuel in their tanks.  I do not have any other mods' with LH2 tanks in my dev setup, so cannot make a comparison.

Would you mind posting screenshots comparing an SSTU vs. other mods' LH2 tanks of comparable size (with right-click menu/resource info showing)?

Otherwise, will investigate this a bit more when I get off from work; nothing I can do until then =\

 

 

 

In general dev news:

Have the basic implementation of the Modular Solid Rocket Booster/Motor working, using the existing models as initial test-cases.  So far I have it swapping lengths and diameter appropriately, scaling motor min and max thrust according to diameter, and scaling the resources according to part volume (set up to maintain a consistent burn time regardless of size/length/etc).

I have not yet fathomed how to -cleanly- implement a self-jettison setup.  Mostly it runs into RO compatibility issues due to fuel types and the fact that ModuleEngines will not allow for a fuel reserve for SRB type motors.  (E.g. the auto-depletion decouplers have been... broken terribly... by the RO patches; the same thing would happen to the MSRBs).

However, at the very least, I will be releasing them as a modular SRB, usable with standard decouplers or the RBDC decouplers.  Nothing stopping me from adding the auto-decouple/jettison motor stuff in the future; the important part is the modular SRB setup, which works.

So.. will be spending a large part of the next two weeks making SRB models.  If you have any SRB's you would like to see parts modeled after, please post pics -soon- (detailed pics, high-res... LOTS OF THEM).  This includes particular nosecones, nozzles, whatever.

List of pics needed:

Slanted nosecones

Smooth-bodied (non-segmented) SRBs (atlas?, delta?  I know I saw some pics a few pages back..)

[Jimbodiah]

Will get stuff moving on the nose cones...   Atlas V and Ariane are my top picks, will see what else is out there. I'll also make some screenshots regarding the LH2 tanks.

I think someone is hinting towards the next shipcore series   *cough* atv *cough*

Edited February 1, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[Jimbodiah]

Nosecones for Ariane V, Atlas V and Delta II style SRBs: http://kerbal.nl/sstu/nosecones.rar

[Shadowmage]

15 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

Nosecones for Ariane V, Atlas V and Delta II style SRBs: http://kerbal.nl/sstu/nosecones.rar

Awesome, those should work well for those designs.

Looking like I will have three different segment patterns (long, short, unsegmented), and four SRB-specific nosecone options (arianne, atlas, delta/shuttle) (plus the existing fuel-tank nosecones).

 

Texture-set support?  Yes, no, maybe?  Likely would be 1.) standard/white, 2.) black, and 3.) blue as the initial offerings.

[Jimbodiah]

Sounds good!!!

 

LH tank screenshots.   LtoR: CryoTanks, Stock, SSTU

Spoiler

 

Edited February 1, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[blowfish]

58 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

I think someone is hinting towards the next shipcore series   *cough* atv *cough*

Maybe we should let Shadowmage clear a few of the many existing to-do's before suggesting new ones

[Jimbodiah]

He has 3 other shipcores planned, so I think he will be busy for a while before adding another  Just planting a little seed for the future.

[Shadowmage]

1 hour ago, Jimbodiah said:

Sounds good!!!

 

LH tank screenshots.   LtoR: CryoTanks, Stock, SSTU

  Hide contents

 

That fuel volume looks correct to me.

2.5m diameter tank x 7.5m tall = 36.815538 m^3 raw volume;
subtract 15% for tankage loss = 31.292 m^3 or 31,292.75 liters usable volume

LqdHydrogen = 1 liter per unit, 1000 liters per m^3.

31.292 m^3 * 1000 liters/m^3 = 31,292 liters = 31,292 units
This should give a final unit value of: 31,292 units of LH2 for that tank.
 

I would say the other tanks are holding magical amounts of LH2, OR they are using 0.5l units for LH2... which I thought CRP had moved to 1l units for everything.

Anyone have any more information on this?  (Volume of a unit in LH2 as defined in CRP -- density would say that it is a 1l unit).

 

Edit:  LH2 is -LIGHT-.  VERY LIGHT.  You would be surprised how 'fluffy' of a fluid it is.  Yes, you need MASSIVE tanks to hold any reasonable mass.

 

Further edit: Yes, those stock tanks/etc are WRONG.  They are holding double the amount of LH2 that they should (by liters of volume).

Proof:  1l of LH2 has a real-world density of 0.0000708 tons per liter.
64000 liters * 0.0000708 = 4.5312 tons of LH2. -- which is the mass of LH2 they have in that tank.  So, they are using the proper density per unit for 1l units.
So, they ARE using 1l units, but they have miscalculated tank capacity by a factor of 2.

Feel free to submit this information to whomever is in charge of those tanks -- they need to fix their volume calculations.  (Or feel free to correct me with math/proof if you find this information is somehow in error).

 

Edited February 1, 2016 by Shadowmage

[Shadowmage]

1 hour ago, blowfish said:

Maybe we should let Shadowmage clear a few of the many existing to-do's before suggesting new ones

Indeed; I have months worth of stuff in the pipeline; more-so when you include all of the plugin-side things that need finishing/cleaning up.  And this is not to even mention the updates that I'm going to need to do when 1.1 finally hits (hint: its a lot...).
 

The real question is:  (directed at whomever may be requesting more/new parts)  Do you ever want me to actually get to working on the station, rover, satellite, etc, parts, or keep working on the Ship Core stuff forever?  

I personally think the ShipCore stuff is nearly done, at least for its initial offerings -- going to add the Series-E (space shuttle), a couple more MFT types (spherical, dry-goods container variants), and -maybe- the Modular Service Modules (need to find a good way to actually do these; on hold until then).
After that I plan to start working on the station stuff (will continue adding engines over time; that is the one area that I would agree could use a bit more variation).

[123nick]

2 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

As stated, there appears to be an implementation detail that needs to be fixed regarding MFT support / interaction. 

Would you mind posting an image of the standard MFT-A tank (2.5m diameter) fuel quantities versus the stock Orange tank fuel quantities?  This should give me a baseline comparison to tell what is going on (comparing the values on two different shaped/sized tanks does no good).

if its hard to read: the MFT-A tank has, by default , 14.72 thousand liquid fuel, and 17.38 thousand oxidizer. the stock tank has 2880 and around 3000 or so oxidizer, whatever the standard value is. if u turn the utilization bar down too 17%, it has a comparable amount of fuel too the jumbo-64 tank. 

Edited February 1, 2016 by 123nick

[Jimbodiah]

1 hour ago, Shadowmage said:

The real question is:  (directed at whomever may be requesting more/new parts)  Do you ever want me to actually get to working on the station, rover, satellite, etc, parts, or keep working on the Ship Core stuff forever?

That would be me   I think the ATV is basically the modular Service Module you were working on. I can do some brainstorming if you want some input.

Personally I never use rovers, and there are two very good mods out there at the moment (Rover Dude's Karibou and WildBlue Buffalo). There is only one mod catering for satellites that I know of (OctoSat, but uses a lot of parts), and 2-3 mods have components to make stations, but also with a lot of parts. So yeah, I'd love to see those two started up first to be honest. I think a lot of people would too, as satellites would also tie into the many career contracts to launch probes, and complete stations with a handful of parts is unheard of right now (I tend to jump into 50-80 parts without even trying).

Re satellites... these are basically modular Service Modules, just smaller... but hence the "modular" part. Maybe that component can be included in the satellite pack? All probes share the same traits:
- Antenna
- Batteries, enough to transmit M700 survey report
- Solar Panels
- SAS / drone core level 3
- Reaction wheel
- Fuel tank (no engine)
- Switchable science equipment

That pretty much sums up the same things as a Orion or Soyuz SM, just smaller, ex the science components. Heck, even an ATV is just a glorified satellite if you squint your eyes.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[Shadowmage]

1 hour ago, 123nick said:

if its hard to read: the MFT-A tank has, by default , 14.72 thousand liquid fuel, and 17.38 thousand oxidizer. the stock tank has 2880 and around 3000 or so oxidizer, whatever the standard value is. if u turn the utilization bar down too 17%, it has a comparable amount of fuel too the jumbo-64 tank. 

Thanks for the pics -- pretty much told me all that I needed to know.  A 5x increase can pretty much mean only one thing:

Apparently there is a difference in how MFT and RF handle their volume inputs.  MFT uses 'units' of volume (stock uses 5l units), and RF uses 'liters';  my implementation was inputting liters of volume for both MFT and RF, rather than stock-units for MFT; resulting in an exact 5x increase in the # of units.

I am now checking for -which- is installed, and scaling the input accordingly.  This fix will be available with the next update (likely mid-week sometime; Saturday at the latest).

[123nick]

Just now, Shadowmage said:

Thanks for the pics -- pretty much told me all that I needed to know.  A 5x increase can pretty much mean only one thing:

Apparently there is a difference in how MFT and RF handle their volume inputs.  MFT uses 'units' of volume (stock uses 5l units), and RF uses 'liters';  my implementation was inputting liters of volume for both MFT and RF, rather than stock-units for MFT; resulting in an exact 5x increase in the # of units.

I am now checking for -which- is installed, and scaling the input accordingly.  This fix will be available with the next update (likely mid-week sometime; Saturday at the latest).

oh ok, thank you very much for the support  

[ComatoseJedi]

Parts expansion: While I fully agree that the core is almost completed, there is always an eye on the future. Logically, there's a need for a job for the lifter parts. Station parts and components would be next, right along the lines of sats and unmanned space travel. While I know that the lander core is in dire need of spit and polish, which I know you are on it, eventually. Personally, I'm a big fan of rovers, but I know there's a lot of work that goes into those to make them work properly, especially with custom wheels (Kerbal Foundries is an example). And then a part of me suggests "Just play the game for a little while and enjoy the fruits of your labor". But, as I always say, this is your mod, you can go in whatever direction you see fit. 

Not to mention with 1.1 looming in the horizon, there's going to be a butt load of work to get done in order to get this pack to work with that version. It's just one of those things where you can choose to work on this or just play the game (or another game), like most of the mod developers have started doing, until the update. But, while we are daydreaming about space, have you given any thought on interstellar spaceflight? With so many concepts out there it's hard to choose the one which would be the most fun to do (which turns out to be a headache in any case).  I've been watching this sci fi type documentary on interstellar travel to Mars called "Race to Mars". You can find it on youtube, but it's in two parts about an hour and a half for each part, but it turns out it's fun to watch. 

[Jimbodiah]

Regarding Interstellar travel: besides the fact there is only one star, for long range travel there are three options: KSPI which is broken right now as most of their reactors no longer work as of 1.0.5, then there are the warpdrives that are a PITA and finally NF Propulsion which gives huge dV gain at the cost of heat and Ec. WildBlue DSEV is comparable but focuses more on the structural parts and has a single huge superhigh ISP engine (also huge heat production, like 400MW of panels needed.).

I use NFP for all my orbital ships, as I like the scifi aspect next to the real-worls launchers.

[Shadowmage]

First pass at nosecone geometry:

Do those look more appropriate for the selection of slanted and straight nosecones?  (Will also be a flat-cap type nosecone option, for stack-based use).

 

[JoseEduardo]

Can I ask for one similar to the one in the LRBs from Jarvis from Orbiter?



I think it fits Kerbal quite nicely

[Shadowmage]

Sure, I could make those, but I'm going to need a lot more information to work from (e.g. orthographic projection diagram/schematic of the cross-section of the nosecone).  A single perspective-projection image is not enough for me to work from=\

Edit:

Managed to find one in this PDF:  http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwja79KpztnKAhVpuYMKHeYwBWAQFgg-MAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.nasaspaceflight.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D30229.0%3Battach%3D475130&usg=AFQjCNFcH-YAw3xuRzwhlSQUWMM_3J1SHg&sig2=60PLWhb2_8sGb_70IFOVbw

Will see about pulling out the image and setting it up for diagram use.  Will let you know how it goes.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Shadowmage