MK16 burning

[Scarredclown]

I'm starting a new career game, i made a small rocket that bring me to 110 000 m. When i reenter, my mk16 always burn off and then i crash...killing Jeb ! I havent played in a while so maybe i'm missing something ?

[keeper]

re-entry on atmosphere planets simulate heat now, so doing certain things to manage heat

A heatshield underneath

radiators?

a longer re-entry so you slow down more before getting into thicker atmosphere - which will blow up Jeb at too high speeds.

a slower re-entry, if you have fuel burning retro etc

I have managed with heatshields - just about...

[Alshain]

Ok, there are two possible scenarios here.

1. Your parachute module/part is burning up.

2. The module is fine, the parachute itself is burning up after deployment.

For #1, make sure it is out of direct heat. It doesn't necessarily need a heat shield, a Mk16 parachute on top of a Mk1 command pod that re-enters with no heat shield, SAS off, and a 45km Pe on Kerbin should not burn up either the pod or the chute module.

For #2, new heat mechanics require you do not deploy the parachute until you are well below the speed of sound (which is 300 m/s). So for safety, deploy at about 250m/s. It will be low to the ground but from orbit with a shallow descent it should be fine. Suborbital is another story, I would just avoid doing suborbital missions for now, they are incredibly difficult to get right (people are going to immediately post a reply to this saying I am wrong, they are very expert at this game and for most people it's an overly complicated task right now). If you must attempt one, DO NOT go straight up and back down, you will not slow down in time to deploy the chutes. Target an arc that leads you over to the water near the "Korean-like" peninsula. Once you have drouge chutes unlocked, it becomes easy however.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Alshain

[MarkusF]

I'd like to add to #2, that there's an info label "Safe to deploy?:" when you right-click the parachute. It can display 'unsafe', 'risky' and 'safe'. Wait until it reads 'safe' before deploying the chute.

[Alshain]

I'd like to add to #2, that there's an info label "Safe to deploy?:" when you right-click the parachute. It can display 'unsafe', 'risky' and 'safe'. Wait until it reads 'safe' before deploying the chute.

Yes, and if the thought of trying to read tiny text on a tweakable menu while it shakes around gives you a headache that is completely normal and there is a mod for that.

[Scarredclown]

I've tried different things and i'm still burning a lot of parachutes. When i try to open them at about 3000 m i very often get the message that the chute have burned...

[Alshain]

I've tried different things and i'm still burning a lot of parachutes. When i try to open them at about 3000 m i very often get the message that the chute have burned...

Altitude is irrelevant. It's all about speed. Your speed can differ at the same altitude depending on the descent.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Alshain

[Pecan]

It's all in the re-entry. If you're coming straight down from 70-80km, it should be fine, as long as you wait until you've been through the re-entry effects and your speed has dropped to 250m/s or less.

If you're coming straight down from 110km, you'll die - it's that simple.

(Mk1 pod, mk16 parachute, decoupler, RT-10 = fine. Replace the RT-10 with a 'Thumper' = dead).

If you have a contract or record that requires you to reach 110km then it's time to go orbital instead of sub-orbital and do a low-energy de-orbit burn, at Ap, that makes your Pe no lower than 40km (to be on the safe side).

[Aragosnat]

From the sounds of it you are going down at insane speeds with a very very very fat craft. As at 3000 m you should be well under 250 m/s in most cases. So what kind of craft are you bringing in? Pictures please.

[Scarredclown]

In fact i have a small craft. I'm at the beginning of the career mode. I'll get more detail on my next flight.

[Captain Sierra]

I find it insanely difficult to reenter safely from a suborbital at any altitude if I brought a materials bay with me. The craft insists on reentering nose-first, rather than as a blunt body (and I don't generate enough heat to warrant a heat shield) and so I cant slow down enough because I'm a lawn dart.

[mckamx]

I find it insanely difficult to reenter safely from a suborbital at any altitude if I brought a materials bay with me. The craft insists on reentering nose-first, rather than as a blunt body (and I don't generate enough heat to warrant a heat shield) and so I cant slow down enough because I'm a lawn dart.

two words: air brakes. they not only slow you down without burning off, they also allow some degree of attitude control (if placed well).

[bonyetty]

Yes, and if the thought of trying to read tiny text on a tweakable menu while it shakes around gives you a headache that is completely normal and there is a mod for that.

Or just zoom out when the tweakable menu is displayed.

[problemecium]

Normal parachutes are safe to deploy under about 250 m/s, which for the average craft re-entering occurs around 2-3km, which in parachute settings equates to 0.5 - 0.75 atmospheres, so set any regular parachutes to at least this high unless you know your ship will slow down earlier.

Drogue chutes are safe to deploy, if I recall properly, under about 650 m/s, which can occur as high as 9km. They'll slow your ship down enough for the regular parachutes to work within a few hundred meters, so what I do to play it safe is set the drogue chutes to about 0.55 atmospheres and 3000m and the rest to 0.75 atmospheres and 1000m.

With the settings thus adjusted for safety, you can go ahead and use up all your stages without worrying about the parachutes ripping and thus not have to be bothered with that annoying flashing green light and the constant fear of accidentally hitting space (or having to make sure you lock staging every time you fly it).

P.S. I set these values in the VAB. Parachutes can of course also be adjusted in flight, but since they don't bother with symmetry in flight you'll have to fuss over every single one.

[DancesWithSquirrels]

I find it insanely difficult to reenter safely from a suborbital at any altitude if I brought a materials bay with me. The craft insists on reentering nose-first, rather than as a blunt body (and I don't generate enough heat to warrant a heat shield) and so I cant slow down enough because I'm a lawn dart.

Try adding that heat shield - it should result in the pod stable and entering tail first. If not, check your KSP version - pod instability was fixed in 1.0.2 or .3 IIRC.

[Alshain]

two words: air brakes. they not only slow you down without burning off, they also allow some degree of attitude control (if placed well).

You obviously don't play career mode. Why would you come down from suborbital with a materials bay at the point in your career that you have airbrakes? By the time you get airbrakes, you should be able to EVA so you can discard the materials bay, and have little use for suborbital jaunts anyway.

Early career is just ridiculously difficult. It's certainly possible, but difficult enough to greatly discourage newer players. To put it plainly, Squad messed up.

Try adding that heat shield - it should result in the pod stable and entering tail first. If not, check your KSP version - pod instability was fixed in 1.0.2 or .3 IIRC.

No, that doesn't fix his problem. Even with a heat shield, it will want to flip forward as long as the materials bay is there. You need a bigger pod and to put the materials bay on top. Again though, at that point you can just throw away the bay because you should be able to EVA.

OP: I don't deploy my chutes till about 1500m, that is usually about the time I'm slow enough. Whatever you do, don't come in over mountains.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Alshain

[Sharpy]

I find it insanely difficult to reenter safely from a suborbital at any altitude if I brought a materials bay with me. The craft insists on reentering nose-first, rather than as a blunt body (and I don't generate enough heat to warrant a heat shield) and so I cant slow down enough because I'm a lawn dart.

The solution is buttered bread glued to cat's back. Attach the materials bay to the nose tip of the capsule.

When launching tourists or multiple crew, stick the capsules nose-to-nose too. And remember you can attach M16 to girders which you can attach anywhere.

[Pecan]

I find it insanely difficult to reenter safely from a suborbital at any altitude if I brought a materials bay with me. The craft insists on reentering nose-first, rather than as a blunt body (and I don't generate enough heat to warrant a heat shield) and so I cant slow down enough because I'm a lawn dart.

Pilot -> SAS -> retrograde? Works for me, but then on the rare occasions I'm doing suborbital I'll be jettisoning all but the pod, parachute and science module.

[Wemb]

What does your ship look like? The Mk I capsule with a parachute on it will come down the right way, flat end first and protect the chute. A Mk I capsule with a parachute -and- a Science Jr will often spin round and come in parachute first - spelling sure disaster.

You should be able to do a sub-orbital 'drop' from 110Km without too much problems - though if you're having difficulty, don't - stop when your ap. hits >70 which will count as leaving the atmosphere just as much as 110km does, and will result in a significantly lower reentry speed.

Wemb

- - - Updated - - -

(and I don't generate enough heat to warrant a heat shield) and so I cant slow down enough because I'm a lawn dart.

In the early game, surviving re-entry by ablation is not what the heat-shield is good for - what it -is- really good for (and why it is warranted) is as ballast to keep your vehicle's attitude correct to survive re-entry.

Wemb

[Scarredclown]

I'm pretty sure that my rpoblem is that my rentry speed is way too fast, about 1200 m/s . It burn my chute before i even got a chance to open it. All the rocket i made go way too high. I seem to be stuck at that point in career mode. Cant explore the map, to create the arc needed to go some place take me too high then burning my chutes.

[Nich]

You need to tweak the amount of fuel in the SRB so you just barely break 70 km. I did this my first time playing 1.0.4 Sent bob straight up to 140km to get the science and he never got below 450 on re-entry.

[LN400]

Some good advice in the posts above but I'll chime in anyway. Reentry speed from space isn't as important as the trajectory. Straight down is trouble. Ballistic, or in an arc, is safe-ish for the simple reason it will take longer to travel in an arc downwards and time is what you need to slow down. More time is good, little time is bad.

If your mission is just to pop out of the atmosphere and return, don't go straight up. Do a normal launch. That will add that horizontal speed for a safe trajectory. In addition, you can make a small burn at apoapsis. You don't need a lot, 150m/s or so should be enough.

Now, on the decent. one trick that isn't entirely safe but if you stay alert it works well. Make sure your navball shows orbital speed and know how the normal marker looks like (blue circle). If you want to bleed off energy faster, at high (70-45 km) altitude, point the nose at the normal marker and have the entire ship work as an airbrake. Pay close attention to heat and if you hear the sound of wind, point the nose retrograde again before the air and drag goes ape on your ship. At around 45 km it is best to go retrograde as things start to get a bit rough.

Downwards, work on keeping the blunt edge prograde. You might struggle but don't allow the ship to flip. Early on in career mode you don't have extra batteries but the pod holds some charge you can use to point the blunt edge into the airstream. Be economical about it as it won't last very long but it is enough to get home safely.

Expect to drop below 1000m/s at around 10-15km. That's when heat is dropping quick and drag and shock waves are your main concern. Keep the blunt edge prograde. Flipping around is bad news.

Watch the speed as you get closer to ground. At around 230-250m/s, it is safe to deploy the chutes. As mentioned above, right clicking on any chute will tell you if it's safe, risky or unsafe to deploy. At this point it is entirely about speed.

If you're still coming in a bit too fast for safe deployment say if the speed is more than 300m/s at 3000 meters, spend the remaining charge on pitching the nose over for greater drag. It's not a super brake but will help.

Hope this will help you and remember, it is well worth doing small launches for them world first contracts to see how a particular ship design falls back to Kerbin, and even more importantly, how many chutes your rocket needs. As a rule of thumb, 1 chute per 1000 kg will get you down at around 5 m/s.

Last: The total mass of the returning ship is important in several ways. One is, if your ship is very heavy say 10 tons, you might want to stage the chutes so that 1 chute will deploy first. Else you risk the g-forces rip the chutes off the ship.

Edited August 12, 2015 by LN400

[Pecan]

...it is well worth doing small launches for them world first contracts...

You get all the height/speed/distance awards even if you don't take them as contracts. People were previously annoyed because you would have to just do one tiny step at a time, not there's no point. My first science/career is on the pad, because you don't have any parts worth taking anywhere else. Second a 'hopper' with the flea engine, just to get away from KSC and pick up some different biome science. Third to orbit, lots of EVAs all the way around, land. Fourth, science probe to Mun - although you may well be able to pick up some easy test, science from space and tourist contracts by then too. I never bother with anything other than 'landed' (ie; on the pad) test contracts unless it's for something I was planning to do anyway. I never bother with EVA surveys (use waypoint manager mod if you want to do those) and hardly ever with the crew report ones either; again unless they happen to be where I was going.

In essence, career mode is science mode unless you strap down the rewards a lot. Kerbin science isn't worth it and money is never really an issue - Go Lunar ASAP!

[LN400]

I hear you, Pecan but what I was saying was that it is well worth doing those small launches when you start out, especially when you're new to KSP. There is tons to learn and there is no reason why all must be learned in one launch

[Pecan]

...it is well worth doing those small launches when you start out, especially when you're new to KSP...

It's certainly worth doing small launches because we all have to start somewhere. Learning how the physics of flight and space work, in KSP, is hard enough anyway though - so don't dump all the extra complications of career mode on yourself. I'm almost exciusively a sandbox player but science mode is arguably the best for beginners, if they are overwhelmed with sandbox choice, since you unlock components at your own pace. Career mode is just ... no, why would you? ... until you know what you're doing with the other stuff.