Fusion reactor, novel design shape - Tokamak

[PB666]

http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/small-modular-efficient-fusion-plant-0810

This maybe somewhat hypey, but if the barium-copper magnets prove to be effective, then it is possible to come up with more efficient magnet design.

Smaller reactor means it could become the electric power source for something like a ...........Cannae drive for use in deep space. heh-heh. Theoretically all we need for interstellar travel is

-A fusion reactor that actually works

-A Cannae drive that proves itself in space

-Humans that can live for 30,000 years

-And that only eat a few calories per year.

-A place that is ready for them to go to.

These things should be easily accomplished.

But there are more practical applications. The previous designs meant that the reactors, if ever made would necessarily need to be placed in large population centers due to the very high cost of building, you wouldn't want to waste that electricity in 100s of miles of transmission, and these would be too costly to spread around to suburban centers or in medium or smaller cities.

The new design would allow reactors to be more dispersed distribution (remember that there is no effective waste from fusion power, the products of fusion are simply not dangerous enough to worry about). This means you can place the reactors closer to demand.

I suspect that this reactor claiming it could be functional in 10 years, probably something working in 50 years, lol. by past precedence.

[AngelLestat]

That is what I always say... if they take a lot of time with a construction without trying to identify the time release for new technology to include it in the design, then it will be a waste of money because technology will keep going and find a better way to solve a problem.

I am talking about ITER.

[SargeRho]

tl;dr: They bought wide enough rubber bands to contain the jello that is the Plasma

[Shpaget]

That is what I always say... if they take a lot of time with a construction without trying to identify the time release for new technology to include it in the design, then it will be a waste of money because technology will keep going and find a better way to solve a problem.

I am talking about ITER.

If everybody kept on waiting for some new technology to be developed by somebody else, everybody would be still waiting for the wheel.

[Frozen_Heart]

That is what I always say... if they take a lot of time with a construction without trying to identify the time release for new technology to include it in the design, then it will be a waste of money because technology will keep going and find a better way to solve a problem.

I am talking about ITER.

If they don't keep trying with the tech they have, better technology won't be developed.

[ZetaX]

If they don't keep trying with the tech they have, better technology won't be developed.

No, that's not how it works. Lots of plasma physics would carry on anyway. Lots of material physics would, too. Not even speaking about more general advances in computers or whatever other relevant researches.

[Nuke]

i think something like a polywell or dpf will be better suited for space flight. tokamaks by their geometry tend to be rather large and heavy. direct conversion is a plus, but brayton cycle + radiators is also a viable option if your core can be made smaller.

[ZetaX]

i think something like a polywell or dpf will be better suited for space flight. tokamaks by their geometry tend to be rather large and heavy. direct conversion is a plus, but brayton cycle + radiators is also a viable option if your core can be made smaller.

The mass (size is a no-brainer in space, so I guess you meant mass) is irrelevant for anything intended to carry many humans to other stars. Such a ship would be in the hundreds of meters and tens of thousands of tons anyway. But one would want to optimize for power per mass.

[Nuke]

little brainfart there, been spending too much time on other game forums where thinking is usually a bannable offense. of course i meant mass.

going interstellar is nice and all, but i have a feeling we will be using fusion in space long before that happens. so an engine+reactor package you can stick on a single rocket and launch in one shot would be a great thing to have in order to bootstrap a more active human presence in the solar system.

[SargeRho]

We already have a design for a fusion engine, parts of which have already been tested though:

(On the right)

It requires an external power source though, which solar panels can do in the inner solar system.

Also I wonder if these new superconductors would provide a meaningful improvement for Beamed Core Antimatter Rockets over what would be doable with current SCs.

[Mazon Del]

That is what I always say... if they take a lot of time with a construction without trying to identify the time release for new technology to include it in the design, then it will be a waste of money because technology will keep going and find a better way to solve a problem.

Actually, the interesting thing about ITER is that they began the project knowing that they didn't have the right answers to a lot of questions. One part of the project was funding the creation of a different large reactor (I think it's name is DEMO) that has been answering questions like "what material should the reactor walls be made out of to resist the neutron bombardment?". So in a lot of ways, up until they start putting equipment actually in place (I THINK that is supposed to start this year) they are "free" to adjust to whatever is the current best tech.

[AngelLestat]

If everybody kept on waiting for some new technology to be developed by somebody else, everybody would be still waiting for the wheel.

Ok in this case it seems that the cost production of REBCO superconductors become cost efficient in these last 2 years, which in that case my point is not so significant.

But many times where these long term projects start and they know it would take at least 10 years, they never make predictions on the status of new technologies and the year of arrival, even if the predictions points to 1 year, and you dont need to take that step after 5 years into the development.

Many times designers not even use the last technology avariable just because the price is still high (but dropping) or because they are conservatives.

If you need to plan a businees case for sats in space that you will be able to launch 10 years from now. You will use the current launch cost or you will apply the cost drop predictions taken into account that spacex is very close to achieve 1st stage recovery?

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, the interesting thing about ITER is that they began the project knowing that they didn't have the right answers to a lot of questions.

The same orion, but they choose to use the oldest technology avariable in almost all, without any clear goal in the design.

[Shpaget]

Funny you should bring up space stuff into this, since most of tech used for probes and satellites is not the cutting edge stuff. It's not even the mainstream technology. It's a generation or two old one that has proven to be reliable and of long lifespan.

Consider plasma TVs. They were all the rage when introduced, but soon their inherent faults arose, such as the burn-in effect. Imagine it's not a TV we're talking about, but something critical. If you use latest technology there simply hasn't been enough time for such dime dependent issues to show themselves, so you critical part fails. However, if you use an older, less efficient tech which you know that is reliable, you can still finish the mission.

[PB666]

We already have a design for a fusion engine, parts of which have already been tested though:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WIWf-N3Jg9k/UkdkbtkM40I/AAAAAAAApkI/fxZ0bkg5Dmg/s1600/screenshot-by-nimbus-spirit-as-utexas-edu-fiso-telecon-Pancotti_9-25-13-Pancotti_9-25-13-pdf+(2).png (On the right)

It requires an external power source though, which solar panels can do in the inner solar system.

Also I wonder if these new superconductors would provide a meaningful improvement for Beamed Core Antimatter Rockets over what would be doable with current SCs.

Yah but this one can generate electric power also. Which you need to keep fragile little humans alive for their long flight into never-never land.

[Aghanim]

Actually, the interesting thing about ITER is that they began the project knowing that they didn't have the right answers to a lot of questions. One part of the project was funding the creation of a different large reactor (I think it's name is DEMO) that has been answering questions like "what material should the reactor walls be made out of to resist the neutron bombardment?". So in a lot of ways, up until they start putting equipment actually in place (I THINK that is supposed to start this year) they are "free" to adjust to whatever is the current best tech.

I want to correct this, you are probably thinking about IFMIF, International Fusion Material Irradiation Facility, which uses particle accelerator to create high-energy neutrons to simulate the inside of an operating fusion reactor, but it is still projected, so maybe that other reactor that you are thinking is JET?

DEMO is ITER that can generate electricity

[rtxoff]

Some other fusion power news. Fusion company claims reactor breakthrough.

http://news.sciencemag.org/physics/2015/08/secretive-fusion-company-makes-reactor-breakthrough

[AngelLestat]

It works like alternative, this approach is still behind the normal Tokamak that will be used in ITER.

How much energy input and how much output they can have if they rise the temperature?

That technique may be very energy intensive.