I have determined that this game is unplayable.

[Xyphos]

I don't know what's worse, the not-so-random overheating bug or the constant structural linkage failures even with struts added, or the phantom forces that keeps pulling space planes to the side on the runway during take-off.

I've determined that 1.0.4 is unplayable, and I will be waiting for the next patch to fix these issues.

[mellojoe]

Planes pulling to one side:

Make sure your landing gear / wheels are not attached to the core part. For instance, if you use the cockpit as the core part and build from there, do not put a front wheel attached to that cockpit. I have started using a probe as my core, and then attaching the cockpit to the probe. This way I can attach my landing gear to the cockpit. Whenever I put wheels on the core part, I get phantom torque on the runway. As long as I keep the wheels on different parts, I don't experience it.

[mikegarrison]

OK. While you are waiting, I'll keep playing it.

[justidutch]

This is as good a place to vent as any, I suppose. But if you want help, more detail please.

When are you overheating, and can we see a picture of the craft?

When do the structural linkage failures happen, and a picture of the craft please?

The 'phantom forces' that pull planes off runways are annoying, but there are some reasons for them which can be found in several threads throughout the forums.

[Goddess Bhavani]

My new economy car for the Kerbal masses strangely pulls to one side under acceleration despite the wheel alignment being milimeter perfect, probably due to assymetrical mass distribution in the engine bay.

What did I do? I simply made the world's first three wheel drive car to eliminate torque steer. Jeremy Clarkson would be amused.

We all know KSP is less than perfect in its physics simulation and hard to diagnose oddities sometimes, but the amazing thing is what you can do to work around the issues

[r4pt0r]

I just dont know sometimes. My install is all stock, and I have occasional bugs, phantom torque and the like, but never anything major.

My friend brings his PC over and on his screen I can see a ship tear itself apart like a suicidal octopus, I've watched his ships delete themselves, over-heat for no reason. He had a station that would not disapate heat at all. Craft in the VAB get corrupted for unknown reasons. He sees many other issues too.

He has dozens of gamebreaking bugs, and I have essentially none. Both stock.

[mikegarrison]

I just dont know sometimes. My install is all stock, and I have occasional bugs, phantom torque and the like, but never anything major.

My friend brings his PC over and on his screen I can see a ship tear itself apart like a suicidal octopus, I've watched his ships delete themselves, over-heat for no reason. He had a station that would not disapate heat at all. Craft in the VAB get corrupted for unknown reasons. He sees many other issues too.

He has dozens of gamebreaking bugs, and I have essentially none. Both stock.

One of you have Steam and the other not? One of you have NVIDIA and the other ATI? What's the difference?

Like you, I find KSP has some bugs/quirks, but 1.04 has actually been probably the most stable version of KSP I have played yet. I used to crash to desktop pretty regularly in the earlier versions, especially on scene changes. That almost never happens to me now.

[Alshain]

Number of version someone in General has not said they aren't going to play till the next patch because it is "unplayable": 0

Number of versions actually unplayable: 0

Get accustomed to waiting.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Alshain

[r4pt0r]

One of you have Steam and the other not? One of you have NVIDIA and the other ATI? What's the difference?

Like you, I find KSP has some bugs/quirks, but 1.04 has actually been probably the most stable version of KSP I have played yet. I used to crash to desktop pretty regularly in the earlier versions, especially on scene changes. That almost never happens to me now.

Both steam, I forget his specs but I do have the better rig. I do know he has nvidia, I saw the updater in the corner when he booted up. Just strange to me how pronounced the difference is in experiences.

I generally have a great time, and he is constantly pulling his hair out haha.

[Red Iron Crown]

I just dont know sometimes. My install is all stock, and I have occasional bugs, phantom torque and the like, but never anything major.

My friend brings his PC over and on his screen I can see a ship tear itself apart like a suicidal octopus, I've watched his ships delete themselves, over-heat for no reason. He had a station that would not disapate heat at all. Craft in the VAB get corrupted for unknown reasons. He sees many other issues too.

He has dozens of gamebreaking bugs, and I have essentially none. Both stock.

I am apparently one of the lucky ones, too, and my main install is nowhere near stock. Stuff doesn't overheat in my cargo bays (it gets hot but never explodes), my memory usage doesn't change significantly during a multi-hour session, performance is reasonably good, just about everything works as advertised.

I don't doubt that other people have these issues, it is just mystifying that they are so prevalent for some while non-existent for others.

[problemecium]

TBH everything you've cited sounds like a spacecraft design problem. I used to bump into those issues, but I don't any more.

Mind posting a few pictures of your stuff so we can see specifically what's up?

[Caelib]

I don't know what's worse, the not-so-random overheating bug or the constant structural linkage failures even with struts added, or the phantom forces that keeps pulling space planes to the side on the runway during take-off.

I've determined that 1.0.4 is unplayable, and I will be waiting for the next patch to fix these issues.

Post a screenshot of your rocket on the launchpad. If you're having issues with overheating or structural failures, then you may just be suffering from a conflict of what you want versus what physics will allow you to do. In my experience, 99% of the problem is usually related to an overbuilt rocket rather than a bug with the game.

If your craft REQUIRES struts, that should be a good indication that you're bending the laws of physics. Consider the possibility of assembling your spacecraft in orbit if you want to make something big. Most of my Mun landing missions are done this way where I launch the lander payload separate from the crew/orbiter.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Caelib

[PB666]

I don't know what's worse, the not-so-random overheating bug or the constant structural linkage failures even with struts added, or the phantom forces that keeps pulling space planes to the side on the runway during take-off.

I've determined that 1.0.4 is unplayable, and I will be waiting for the next patch to fix these issues.

torque wheels on some capsules will cause craft to pull to one side. If you are relying on control surfaces to control the craft its better to silence the torque wheels on any modules (such as craft inside a cargo bay, or satellites) as they are all active.

Since this is a space game, I don't see then need to do space planes, so I can't help you with the other stuff, but if you want to test this is a problem set a capsule face up, the place MGS going to the front and back of space plane hanger, then place four wheels coming off the MGS, you will note that when you hit the "W" button to move forward there is a small jerk to one side, if you go to the cap and disable the reaction wheels it will stop and your rover will go strait.

[Green Baron]

It's far from unplayable. Overheating never occured for me, even for probes on and around Moho (well, haven't looked for sometime ....). Structural failure never was an issue (provided i build at least somewhat reasonable contraptions), and against the wobbling and bending i use Kerbal Joint Reinforcements.

But i must admit that there are bugs (wobbling course lines, diffucult placing of maneouver nodes when the course hit's another SOI, the claw ...).

k

[Bekiekutmoar]

I frequently experience bugs like disappearing vessel icons on the Map View and the unablility to create a Maneuver Node. Nothing too serious but a bit annoying nevertheless. Haven't got any NaN-errors or memory crashes up untill now.

[Wallygator]

Since 1.0 I consider myself a consumer and not a tester. That said...

I am still slightly befuddled as how the actual testing process happens, and how so many know bugs have continued to exist for all these many months (all Hail CLAW! down with probe...)

Regardless, the game is playable - but with caveats. One must still quick save often, don't do weird stuff without first testing it outside of your primary save, and be sure to have a stock version stored away to provide a control.

Anyone who refuses to play under these simple existing conditions should also consider not playing life in general. Just MHO.

Now, THAT said... It is post general release - so it is reasonable to expect well known bugs (already fixed by the community - All Hail CLAW!) to be addressed by the developer and not the community (All Hail CLAW!)

Edited August 18, 2015 by Wallygator

[mikegarrison]

I frequently experience bugs like disappearing vessel icons on the Map View and the unablility to create a Maneuver Node. Nothing too serious but a bit annoying nevertheless. Haven't got any NaN-errors or memory crashes up untill now.

Yeah, I get than maneuver node (or rather lack of maneuver node) error frequently. I did get a NaN error condition with 1.04. Once. I used to get it so often with 0.90 that I was scared to change scenes or jump to a new ship ever without first hitting F5.

- - - Updated - - -

Post a screenshot of your rocket on the launchpad. If you're having issues with overheating or structural failures, then you may just be suffering from a conflict of what you want versus what physics will allow you to do. In my experience, 99% of the problem is usually related to an overbuilt rocket rather than a bug with the game.

If your craft REQUIRES struts, that should be a good indication that you're bending the laws of physics. Consider the possibility of assembling your spacecraft in orbit if you want to make something big. Most of my Mun landing missions are done this way where I launch the lander payload separate from the crew/orbiter.

The tools for orbital assembly are lacking. Really at some high tech level we should get a space dock or something, but I think the vision of the game from the developers is really focused more on launching improbable rockets than it is on developing some kind of rational space industry.

Struts are way more necessary than they should be, unless you install Kerbal Joint Reinforcement. That mod should be stock, but apparently the developers LIKE the stupidly wobbly attachments (and the resulting crazy strut assemblies).

[xtoro]

As mentioned, it's a 2 step solution.

Step 1: Install KJR.

Step 2: Be happy.

[qromodynmc]

I use many mods, and also have stock. I really dont have any issues you have, It seems like design problem to me.

[Sobriquet]

I don't know what's worse, the not-so-random overheating bug or the constant structural linkage failures even with struts added, or the phantom forces that keeps pulling space planes to the side on the runway during take-off.

I've determined that 1.0.4 is unplayable, and I will be waiting for the next patch to fix these issues.

I would not go so far as "unplayable". However, I do feel your frustration at the seemingly endless list of bugs that hamper gameplay.There's the two you mentioned. Also, the phantom acceleration bug is a major PITA.

As a community, we have rationalized the whole bugginess thing by giving it a name. Tongue firmly in cheek you will be told, "It's the Kraken". Make no mistake, the Kraken (aka unfixed bugs) will appear. It will creep into your game and eventually you will have to restart because there is no cure for it.

Sorry to hear the untimely resolution to these bugs have caused you to shelve the game. This game is awesome and lately I've been playing it like I have no life. Maybe when the port to the new engine is complete some of these nasties will be gone. Maybe.

[mikegarrison]

Maybe when the port to the new engine is complete some of these nasties will be gone. Maybe.

Ha ha ha ha ha!

No, there will be all kinds of new bugs.

[Joonatan1998]

Ha ha ha ha ha!

No, there will be all kinds of new bugs.

New, exiting bugs to replace the old, boring ones!

There are actually some players that might like getting more bugs, it might allow new exploit-based engines for example.

[eddiew]

To be fair, I didn't play 1.0.2 because the aero was brutal to planes and SSTOs. That doesn't mean it was unplayable, just that I didn't personally enjoy it

Heating issue fix; debug menu, thermal, reduce conduction factor to about 2-3. No more runaway heating or explosions, you may now play again ^^

[SAI Peregrinus]

99 little bugs in the code, 99 bugs in the code,

Take one out, compile again, 100 little bugs in the code.

Repeat until you hit omega bugs in the code.

[Kobymaru]

TBH everything you've cited sounds like a spacecraft design problem. I used to bump into those issues, but I don't any more.

Mind posting a few pictures of your stuff so we can see specifically what's up?

If you're having issues with overheating or structural failures, then you may just be suffering from a conflict of what you want versus what physics will allow you to do. In my experience, 99% of the problem is usually related to an overbuilt rocket rather than a bug with the game.

Regardless, the game is playable - but with caveats. One must still quick save often, don't do weird stuff without first testing it outside of your primary save, and be sure to have a stock version stored away to provide a control.

Anyone who refuses to play under these simple existing conditions should also consider not playing life in general. Just MHO.

This is all the same argument and I'm getting increasingly annoyed by it. It boils down to

"well you didn't play the game in a very very specific and undocumented way and didn't work around this and that bug, so CLEARLY this is all your fault"

No! If I screw up my ship design, the consequences should be simply a bad ship! Not the game physics glitching out.

If I "need to many struts", fine punish me with a lower TWR, punish me with higher drag, maybe even punish me with weird physical resonances within the realms of physics. But do not punish me with Phantom forces!

Either part clipping is allowed, then fix the clipped parts physics; or it's not allowed but then fix your editor to properly reflect that.

If the Klaw exists, then it should work as advertised without exploding ships or worlds.

Giving cute names like "the Krakendevice" to the klaw and the service bay is just not good enough, sorry.

I know I mixed community and Squad in my rant, and I'm sorry about it. But I do get quite frustrated that people go out of their way to defend Squad by posting workarounds that shouldn't have to be needed.

To all the "it works for me" people: good for you. Really. I'm truly happy for you. But please stop using that as an argument to lower the credibility of people who report of issues and voice their frustration. Cuz there's a lot of em.

For example, I hit almost all of the issues mentioned in this thread

- Random heat flickering leading to 'splosions

- Random heat 'splosions when doing physical timewarp in atmosphere (lemme guess... I shouldn't do that, that's obviously my fault again and there's no need to fix anything)

- Phantom torques

- Phantom forces

So please don't tell me (or imply) that "it's just my install" or "it's just my system" or that "i built the craft wrong".

As a community, we have rationalized the whole bugginess thing by giving it a name. Tongue firmly in cheek you will be told, "It's the Kraken". Make no mistake, the Kraken (aka unfixed bugs) will appear. It will creep into your game and eventually you will have to restart because there is no cure for it.

Ok, you're right. But I don't think it's OK to just nonchalantly accept every single bug as "part of the game".

Personally, I could go like 3 releases without a single new feature and I'd be the happiest man on earth if they just went on their goshdarn Bugtracker and started hunting down bugs one by one.

Maybe when the port to the new engine is complete some of these nasties will be gone. Maybe.

Maybe the new engine will fix everything magically. Or maybe the engine will fix a few bugs, create a lot more in the same time.

I hope for the former. I expect the latter.

On a completely unrelated note, praise Claw! He's the kinda guy that goes out and fixes things. (And hey, apparently it's not impossible to fix physics bugs!).

BTW, the sole fact that "stock bugfix modules" exists and is a third-party mod that's not stock should ring some alarm bells.