A Thread for Writers to talk about Writing

[SaturnianBlue]

Kuzzter, can you give me a bit of a critique to try to improve on The Asteroid Sentinels? I've been doing it for quite a while now, but I'm pretty sure I still have ways to improvise.

[Mister Dilsby]

Kuzzter, can you give me a bit of a critique to try to improve on The Asteroid Sentinels? I've been doing it for quite a while now, but I'm pretty sure I still have ways to improvise.

Of course--can't get to it right away but I'll post something as soon as I can

ETA: OK, I've re-read the series now

Many of the projects we all have are part mission report and part story. I see Asteroid Sentinels right now as about 90% mission report. You are using graphic novel elements such as speech balloons and are laying out panels in ways other than a standard screenshot. However, your characters (mainly Wernher, Gene, Linus and the rest of the KSC staff) don't say much other than comment on the ongoing launches and intercepts. If you want to make this more story and less straight mission report (which you don't have to--mission reports are always interesting on their own merits, especially with good pictures!) then those characters will have to have some depth, and experience some growth. What does Gene think about the ships he's launching? What are his personal goals, besides the immediate goals of the mission? Also, where is this whole story going? Is Kerbin really in danger of obliteration? Is Gene going to get fired if he doesn't get a whole bunch of asteroids? Other than character, that's the main thing that makes a story a story--the reward if the characters do accomplish their goals, and the consequences if they don't.

As to the graphic elements, you're using them well to add humor and personality. Your panels and layout were confusing sometimes at first, but I think you're really getting the knack of it around post #32. If you do decide to ramp up the character focus and storytelling, you have a good framework to build on!

Edited September 1, 2015 by Kuzzter

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

I'm really a writer, but I might try a short fan-fic.

So far, all I've written I've is these "what's the worst that could happen posts:"

Due to a complicated series of unfortunate events, your child suffers from low self esteem, depression, and addiction to a game called "Kerbal Space Program", of the three the last is the most serious as it causes your child to create a forum account, whereupon he begins to post in a forum games thread called "What's the worst that could happen?".

I am Attila. I am revenge. I will hunt you down to the ends of space. You will never be able to relax again, for fear that I'm just around every corner. I will be. You cannot escape. I am coming.

As you lean down to pour kibble into the bowl, a sudden pain hits your back, and as you go over to the couch to lie down, you slip on a cleverly placed banana peel which Attila has placed for you slip on, as you get up, Attila jumps out from behind the couch, wielding his bayonet and shouting "revenge", you run to the secret bunker you built very recently, and as you run in, screaming the auto-lock code for the blast proof door, you slip on the wet paint, and fall in the wet cement.

Behind you, the blast proof door falls off of it's hinges, as it was placed in wet cement. Attila runs in, furiously typing this forum post, he then slides into the wet cement.

Meanwhile, you run towards you secret escape rocket, which will take you to your private space station where you will be able to finally escape Attila.

You run into the rocket, locking the airlock and strapping yourself in. You activate the launch sequence and blastoff, but when you look at the external camera, you see Attila hanging on to a fin on your rocket, which mechjeb doesn't correct for, and you have to abort the launch.

As you parachute away from the exploding rocket, you think nothing could have survived the blast. You don't see Attila parachuting down.

When you capsule lands, get out and look around. You've hardly come 1/2 of a mile from you house, and now you have to walk back with a hurting back, to finally finish feeding the dog.

You swim around for a while, and then you decide to jump in to the pool. As you jump in the pool, you see that your thunderbird style pool has retracted without warning, revealing TB1. You land on a pile of canvases which break your fall.

When you wake up you realize this is a another plot of Attila's to seek revenge, for you are his mother and you had a part in naming him. Suddenly Attila appears with a spear, luckily, because he is figuring out some insane plot for this post, you have time to roll away from the spear and run towards TB4, where you jump in and jet off under the water. Suddenly, a torpedo zooms by your port bow, and you look behind you, where you see another submarine right you, about to launch another torpedo. You take evasive action and dive. The other submarine dives too, and you keep on diving, hoping to go deeper than the other submarine. You continue to dive, and when you reach the max depth of your submarine, the other submarine is still right behind you. In a risky gamble, you continue to dive. The other submarine is still right behind you, when your submarine implodes.

Luckily, you were able to escape in the escape pod, mere moments before you would have been crushed. You escape pod floats to the surface, where you are picked up by a passing ship. Unfortunately, the ship is a pirate ship, and they force you to walk the plank. Seconds before you would have had to jump to the sharks below, the ship explodes, due to a torpedo from Attila's submarine.

You are thrown clear by the blast, and land in the water, where you are invisible to radar and sonar because that the sharks mask you to the submarine. Just when it appears that you will eaten, you see that the sharks have cockpits, because they are shark shaped submarines.

you are picked up in a shark submarine, where you discover that the submarines are driven by strange beings called "Kerbals" you say that they are aliens from a planet called "Kerbin" you explain your plight to them, and they agree to help you escape to Kerbin. You are transported back to the shore, where they put you, along with a crew of Kerbals, on a LEO shuttle, where you will get on a mothership back to Kerbin. As you lift off, you discover the reliability of kerbal rockets. Luckily, the LES worked, and you and the kerbals were blasted to safety.

You realize that maybe escaping on a kerbal rocket isn't the way to evade Attila, so you bid the kerbals farewell, and stow aboard a oil tanker to get back to your house.

When you get back, you discover a sign saying: I know you're still alive, Attila.

Criticism?

[Mister Dilsby]

Criticism?

Well, these are fun So you have two characters here, Atilla and "you", which I suppose means me, Kuzzter. Atilla's early characterization shows promise: "I am Attila. I am revenge. I will hunt you down to the ends of space. You will never be able to relax again, for fear that I'm just around every corner. I will be. You cannot escape. I am coming." And then we have A Series Of Unfortunate Events, which is of course you asking again and again, "from this point I've gotten us to in the story, what is the most interesting/worst thing that could happen next?" That's actually not a bad way to go, a lot of great adventure stories come from putting the heroes in an inescapable situation and making them find a way out of it. Of course if you really are Mad enough to get into fanfic, you'll have to put a lot of thought into characters, their goals, and find an overarching narrative with a Beginning, Middle and End to make your readers care about your characters and their success.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Well, these are fun So you have two characters here, Atilla and "you", which I suppose means me, Kuzzter. Atilla's early characterization shows promise: "I am Attila. I am revenge. I will hunt you down to the ends of space. You will never be able to relax again, for fear that I'm just around every corner. I will be. You cannot escape. I am coming." And then we have A Series Of Unfortunate Events, which is of course you asking again and again, "from this point I've gotten us to in the story, what is the most interesting/worst thing that could happen next?" That's actually not a bad way to go, a lot of great adventure stories come from putting the heroes in an inescapable situation and making them find a way out of it. Of course if you really are Mad enough to get into fanfic, you'll have to put a lot of thought into characters, their goals, and find an overarching narrative with a Beginning, Middle and End to make your readers care about your characters and their success.

Thanks for the criticism! I think my favorite was the first one, but I kind of like the second too. These characters seem a bit too 2d to continue into a full fanfic, but there may be bits of them if I start a larger project.

[Sharkman Briton]

I did what you all told me, moar panel things, bigger text, and Part 3 of Genesis Uno is out!

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/132845-Project-Genesis-Uno-My-first-interplanetary-mission-!?p=2165967#post2165967

What do you all think? Critique or not.

[0111narwhalz]

In a 'short' story of a modest 16000 characters (and counting) I'm writing on my phone, I've gone for a very loose interpretation of the Core Four's archetypes. A quick-n-dirty ref sheet I made (mostly to keep Bill & Bob separate in my head) follows:

Jeb

Impulsive, a wannabe comedian. Best damn pilot ever to fly.

Bill

Levelheaded, focused on the task at hand. Clever engineer.

Bob

A bit eccentric. Needs his coffee. Seriously. Once he's had his coffee, the official ambassador of the group. Also, an eminent xenobiologist.

Val

Midway between Jeb and Bill. Tolerates a bit of humor, but not too much. Decent pilot and a startlingly brilliant linguist.

Criticism and feedback are greatly encouraged. I'll probably be flooding the forums with it in the near future (read: tomorrow).

Edited September 5, 2015 by 0111narwhalz

[Sharkman Briton]

That seems spot on! Especially with Jeb. I usually go for Val = humorous, but some things really tick her off. Bill: Bit eccentric, completely concentrated one moment crazy the other. Bob: SCIENCE!

[CatastrophicFailure]

Ok my turn

I posted a couple of breather chapters before things go dark, and for some reason they're kinda rubbing me the wrong way. Feedback would be appreciated.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/126545-Whispers-of-the-Kraken-%28Chapter-11-Kermangrad%29?p=2176043&viewfull=1#post2176043

[Ten Key]

Feedback would be appreciated.

There is a sudden shift in the pacing with the last two chapters. You have a very dense, rapid fire writing style and these chapters kind of wander away from that a bit. We slow down, and the reader gets to see some things that may not tie directly back into the story. But it's still good writing, even if the bit about the bridges never comes up again. I laughed.

Forgive me a metaphor, but if Whispers of the Kraken was a roller coaster, then these breather chapters are that flat stretch in the middle where the cars tap on the brakes before launching into the next section of track. You feel the deceleration. You can feel the transition in the writing. But the rest of the story is so fast I'm not sure it can be helped. And honestly? I think it works. If it's a little jarring, so much the better-- it fits with what Valentina herself is experiencing. It's happy and warm and slow and something is wrong.

[Sharkman Briton]

What can I say? I loved shadows, nobody ever suspects the

seemingly nice guy!

though I will admit that one part in shadows that really confused me was the Buford T Kerman part, I had no clue what was going on as you never explained who it actually was. The beginning of whispers kind of set me off a bit, I read the first part of the intro after I finished shadows and I just didn't want to read it, because I had no clue what was going on, though a while later I started reading it.

[SaturnianBlue]

So Kuzzter, I managed to implement a lot of your suggestions, what do you think of my Graphic Novel for now?

[KSK]

What can I say? I loved shadows, nobody ever suspects the

seemingly nice guy!

though I will admit that one part in shadows that really confused me was the Buford T Kerman part, I had no clue what was going on as you never explained who it actually was. The beginning of whispers kind of set me off a bit, I read the first part of the intro after I finished shadows and I just didn't want to read it, because I had no clue what was going on, though a while later I started reading it.

Going off-topic a wee bit, so happy to take this to PMs but:

Buford T. Kerman looked an awful lot like Edgas Kerman (also no middle initial) with a truly awesome but fake mustache.

Sure, that could be a red herring but if I remember correctly, Edgas removes his moustache at one point.

[0111narwhalz]

Shameless self-promotion, but some feedback on my other fanfiction, Kerbal Future, would also be lovely. The Core Four are nowhere to be found in Future, and I figure that's a nice change from the bulk of KSP fanfiction. It's also far future, not a "from the beginning" story.

[CatastrophicFailure]

Sure, that could be a red herring but if I remember correctly, Edgas removes his moustache at one point.

...yes! And take that ridiculous thing off!

What can I say? I loved shadows, nobody ever suspects the

seemingly nice guy!

though I will admit that one part in shadows that really confused me was the Buford T Kerman part, I had no clue what was going on as you never explained who it actually was. The beginning of whispers kind of set me off a bit, I read the first part of the intro after I finished shadows and I just didn't want to read it, because I had no clue what was going on, though a while later I started reading it.

Seems there's always some bit that gets a little confused, probably due to the mass of typos I've discovered going back thru Shadows. The into to Whispers was pretty experimental I admit. I had the same reaction to the intro to the Wheel of Time, no idea what the heck was going on. Hopefully, like that story, in the fullness of time it'll be a case of "so THATS what that nut was writing about!"

There is a sudden shift in the pacing with the last two chapters. You have a very dense, rapid fire writing style and these chapters kind of wander away from that a bit. We slow down, and the reader gets to see some things that may not tie directly back into the story. But it's still good writing, even if the bit about the bridges never comes up again. I laughed.

Forgive me a metaphor, but if Whispers of the Kraken was a roller coaster, then these breather chapters are that flat stretch in the middle where the cars tap on the brakes before launching into the next section of track. You feel the deceleration. You can feel the transition in the writing. But the rest of the story is so fast I'm not sure it can be helped. And honestly? I think it works. If it's a little jarring, so much the better-- it fits with what Valentina herself is experiencing. It's happy and warm and slow and something is wrong.

Thanks for the input, that's most helpful. You seem to have the bearing of an English teacher at times with your thoughtful analysis

[Sharkman Briton]

Good luck with Whispers!

Shadows actually freaked me out a little, the first time that "HIS EYES!" happened I was like "Umm, what the heck?... 0_0" and alot of other bits freaked me out especially the

Edgas murdered that guy

and every time "HIS EYES!" happened.

So he did the only logical thing at the time, he punched the Kraken in the face.

<- Loved that part.

[Sharkman Briton]

Anyone here know how to get people to actually read my stuff?

It really annoys me when I look at my stuff and see the only comment other than me being Kuzz, then at another comic made about the same time as mine with buttloads of comments from different people. >.<

[Mister Dilsby]

Anyone here know how to get people to actually read my stuff?

Well, it's tough. We are all competing for a limited store of readers' attention spans, not just with one another but with the rest of the Forum, real life, and oh yeah the game itself. What I try to do, and I think what works well in both graphic and text stories, is to make your work very easy for the reader to consume. If it's hard to read for ANY reason--graphics/font, confusing storyline, unfamiliar characters--then the reader will focus on the nearest shiny object and not your work.

I think the works that capture reader attention best are the ones that start out with the familiar game setting and characters and add an interesting twist to the canon. That's a "hook". And once readers are hooked, you can start to add in the unique bits of your world more and more. I think that if I'd started out with the Eve story, for instance, and tried to introduce readers to the world of Kerbfleet along with five no-name whitesuits all at once, it never would have caught on. I started with a very familiar setting in the opening of D:OB, added Lisa to the roster... developed the characters further and further, then introduced some of the new whitesuits bit by bit once readers were sufficiently hooked that they would pay attention to the new stuff. Otherwise I think there never would have been a "liek if u cri evry time" for Tedus, no one would have cared who the heck he was

[Sharkman Briton]

Okay, that's rather hard for me as I honestly don't care about Jeb *gasp* as he has been lost since the beginning of my save due to the Kraken, and I don't care enough to persistence edit to get him back, and Aldvis and Gemet are my favourites, Val, Bob and Bill are more or less the almost-protagonists, whilst Ald and Gem are more the protagonists, though all of them are protagonists, just three are a bit less than the other two.

Another thing I wanted to ask you was if I should focus on story or action, I prefer story but that may cut back on the action, if I do too much action then the story might get cut back or I'll get a bit sick of the subject.

Also: since I know you know a *tiny* bit atleast about PGU then I wish for your opinion: Should I focus less on the Munar Station and more on the Duna ship itself? The reason I'm not doing much with the ship is because I'm a bit stuck on arguably the most crucial part of the ship - the lander - and I want to get that out the way before I add anything else on.

Thanks in advance for any answers/opinions!

[Mister Dilsby]

So Kuzzter, I managed to implement a lot of your suggestions, what do you think of my Graphic Novel for now?

Have not forgotten you Blue--I loved the new artwork and mustache/no mustache Wernher! I'd continue to work on panel and speech balloon layout--make the reader's eye flow easily across the page. Parkaboy is a better graphic designer than I am so look to his stuff for examples of good technique. As for storyline, you've given us a reason to worry about your kerbals and the plot is developing. I think the portal stuff is still a bit confusing--for me, it's lot of words back and forth and I'm still not sure what the portals mean and how much I should be thinking about them in relation to other things like the inbound asteroids. Part of this could be because the characters are confused, themselves; if so, you just have to make it clear that the reader hasn't missed anything. Similar to my comments to Sharkman, everything you write must be easily digestible by the reader. We're not writing Finnegan's Wake here--if anything needs to be designed for a short attention span, it's a webcomic I think a good pair of questions for a writer to always ask are, (1) what single really important thing am I trying to convey to the reader, and (2) how many of these words can I take out and still get that point across?

[KSK]

Well, it's tough. We are all competing for a limited store of readers' attention spans, not just with one another but with the rest of the Forum, real life, and oh yeah the game itself.

Definitely. Don't get disheartened by the lack of comments. Over time, I've noticed that the ratio of page views to comments tends to be roughly the same for any given KSP fan work. Take Czokletmuss's Grand Tour for example. Epic story, over 470,000 page views and 'only' 2,490 comments in the thread including story updates and replies from the author.

Writing anything KSP related is tough and I'm not saying that in a 'woe is me, the poor writer' sense.

It sounds like it should be fairly easy - after all we have some awesome material to work with. The danger of early spaceflight, getting cutting edge technology to work, the mystery and wonder of leaving one's home planet for the first time, all the hard rocket science you could wish for, not to mention the interesting twist of viewing the whole thing through the eyes of an alien species. Lots of classic sci-fi stuff right there.

The problem is... that's just KSP. Most of that awesome material will be 'just another career game' for our readers. So like Kuzzter said, you need a good hook, or rather another hook because the obvious ones have all been used. From personal experience, comments can also come straight out of left field. Major story events will get completely ignored in the comments and then some throwaway detail will spark off a page of them. It's a funny old world sometimes.

Edited September 9, 2015 by KSK

[Mister Dilsby]

From personal experience, comments can also come straight out of left field. Major story events will get completely ignored in the comments and then some throwaway detail will spark off a page of them. It's a funny old world sometimes.

OMG yes--and it can be a really exciting experience to tell a story "live" with reader comments coming in, for that reason. I can indeed be influenced by the comments, not so much for story direction but I will definitely pull focus where the readers seem to want to go.

KSK and others, can you be influenced by the comments in any way?

[Sharkman Briton]

Yeah, every time I get a comment I feel motivated to do stuff on the story.

[CatastrophicFailure]

Every time I get a comment reply notification email I squeal like a little girl. Which can be awkward in public.

[Mister Dilsby]

Case in point--I expected a few pages of "What? Fired? Booo! Hiss! Down with Mort!" after the last E:O0 update but all I'm getting is "Yeah he would totally survive that fall, big deal". Which is itself pretty darn funny, and I will probably now use it in some way in the comic.

ETA:

Boooooooooooo!

Hissssssssss!

Down with evil Mort!

Boooooooooooooooo

I knew I could count on you Deddly!

Edited September 9, 2015 by Kuzzter