Arrested for flying like a Kerbanaut

[PB666]

[h=1]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34155773[/h]

[Dkmdlb]

One of the players in action at the time, 26th-seed Flavia Pennetta, described hearing the drone fly by, not knowing what it was and fearing the worst.

"With everything going on in the world... I thought, 'OK, it's over.' That's how things happen," Ms Pennetta, 33, told the Associated Press news agency.

[Camacha]

How can people live their lives this way?

They feel secure fearing anything they do not know well. Funny how that works.

[Robotengineer]

Why do people feel the need to fly drones everywhere?

[WestAir]

So if I'm flying an RC airplane and it goes out of range and smashes into an empty park bench, am I going to be arrested? Will someone think "Ok, it's over, I'm dying" as the 2 lb plastic projectile slices towards the ground at a neck-breaking 15 mph? Finally, is there a reason nobody has called high end RC airplanes drones until literally this decade?

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm mostly joking here. I also firmly understand the difference between an autonomous or unmanned flying object and a radio controlled aircraft. Personally, I think the line separating the two is pretty thin and the FAA has had a difficult time classifying the difference between a drone and a recreational toy. They have an even harder time deciding at what point FAA oversight becomes mandatory. The line is thin enough for me to joke about it.

Edited September 4, 2015 by WestAir

[Camacha]

So if I'm flying an RC airplane and it goes out of range and smashes into an empty park bench, am I going to be arrested?

Quite possibly, though it depends on the jurisdiction you are in. In some places flying without a permit is prohibited, in other places you are not allowed to fly above buildings or crowds, or other rules exist. In all the various cases I know about, this would have been prohibited.

Besides, I can imagine that the location has some special rules applied to it too. I think it is only fair this guy gets arrested, it is these kinds of cowboys that spoil a great hobby for others.

[MinimumSky5]

Crashing into a park bench and crashing into a stadium holding the world championships of a major sport are a little different.

[vger]

Quite possibly, though it depends on the jurisdiction you are in. In some places flying without a permit is prohibited, in other places you are not allowed to fly above buildings or crowds, or other rules exist. In all the various cases I know about, this would have been prohibited.

[WestAir]

Quite possibly,

I've never seen RC planes flown anywhere other than parks, and usually in the hands of novice fathers or their five year old sons. Handcuffs seem extreme for something that's been happening for decades, and I would question where the line is between acceptable accident and criminal mischief.

All of that said, I've been playing devils advocate. I think the teacher should be charged and serve time. You don't fly stuff into stadiums like it's a joke.I had hoped our teachers were smarter than that.

Crashing into a park bench and crashing into a stadium holding the world championships of a major sport are a little different.

A little.

Edited September 4, 2015 by WestAir

[GeneCash]

So if I'm flying an RC airplane and it goes out of range and smashes into an empty park bench, am I going to be arrested?

Well probably not, because most RC plane pilots are pretty responsible and take care not to break property/people. Edit: they're careful to NOT let their planes fly out of range.

However, everybody and his idiot brother have drones, and are acting like complete and total retards with them... flying them so firefighters can't do dump flights over wild fires, flying close to airliners and other manned aircraft, crashing into public stadiums, and now this.

So I'm sure people are feeling it's about time to start putting some of these morons in jail for a bit to think things over. As someone that flies drones myself, I'd agree.

Edited September 4, 2015 by GeneCash

[Camacha]

I've never seen RC planes flown anywhere other than parks, and usually in the hands of novice fathers or their five year old sons. Handcuffs seem extreme for something that's been happening for decades, and I would question where the line is between acceptable accident and criminal mischief.

It has not been happening for decades, that is the point. Drones have quickly become cheaper (and bigger) in the past few years, and the result is that a lot more people buy them as toys. The problem is, they are not toys, either when it comes to possible consequences or just plain legally. That they are sold as toys does little to detract from the dangers they can pose.

The fact that a lot of people treat them like toys is a huge problem and is quickly spoiling the hobby for people that do take care. Law enforcement tends to look away when things are okay (like a father and son in an empty park), but if you endanger property, privacy or people, you run the risk of having to answer for it. That only seems fair.

Please let us be sensible about this, otherwise the airspace will be locked down, except for licensed professionals. That would be a real shame.

[WestAir]

Well probably not, because most RC plane pilots are pretty responsible and take care not to break property/people.

However, everybody and his idiot brother have drones, and are acting like complete and total retards with them... flying them so firefighters can't do dump flights over wild fires, flying close to airliners and other manned aircraft, crashing into public stadiums, and now this.

So I'm sure people are feeling it's about time to start putting some of these morons in jail for a bit to think things over. As someone that flies drones myself, I'd agree.

Since you're a drone pilot, I want to ask: What's the appeal? As I understand it people like it for photography, but is that it? Was this teacher trying to film the game from the air and his drone crashed doing it?

- - - Updated - - -

It has not been happening for decades, that is the point.

I see what you mean, and I'm sorry I didn't explain what I meant better. I was talking about RC planes at that point. I was making a broad comparison between them crashing and drones crashing today. You're right that there are differences, and you're right that there has to be a sensible response to the growing number of incidences before there is a real tragedy.

I often have difficulty properly explaining my p.o.v, so I apologize for the miscommunication.

[Camacha]

So I'm sure people are feeling it's about time to start putting some of these morons in jail for a bit to think things over.

[GDJ]

You think it's bad for Quadcopters and RC planes? Try launching a model rocket in a city, even a small one.

You'd be labeled a "Dangerous person who belongs to a dangerous organization" (yes I'm choosing my words very carefully) and you will get arrested.

[Camacha]

You think it's bad for Quadcopters and RC planes? Try launching a model rocket in a city, even a small one.

[PB666]

So if I'm flying an RC airplane and it goes out of range and smashes into an empty park bench, am I going to be arrested? Will someone think "Ok, it's over, I'm dying" as the 2 lb plastic projectile slices towards the ground at a neck-breaking 15 mph? Finally, is there a reason nobody has called high end RC airplanes drones until literally this decade?

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm mostly joking here. I also firmly understand the difference between an autonomous or unmanned flying object and a radio controlled aircraft. Personally, I think the line separating the two is pretty thin and the FAA has had a difficult time classifying the difference between a drone and a recreational toy. They have an even harder time deciding at what point FAA oversight becomes mandatory. The line is thin enough for me to joke about it.

Check your airspace, you can find this by looking up the local maps of your airport. Although ignorance is not a defense, and the FAA would likely give you a warning, if you are in a city and you fly anything, there is a pretty good chance once your cross 500 feet you are violating an airspace rule. Best to fly in the country. I think that should set the minimum altitude for drones over residential areas at twice the height of the average utility lines. In cities that means you would have to fly between 60 feet and 500 (or 2000 feet) if you fly off the easement.

Here is Manhattan. I think anyone could be arrested for flying a drone in Manhattan. Under these rules, technically, without communicating with an ATC, since drones don't have radio communication they are pretty much limited to flying over the Hudson or East Rivers. The Hudson river has an absolute ceiling of 1500 feet and helicopters, rescue vehicles and seaplanes have the right of way, I think the Hudson river is a seaplane-port from back in the 1930s to 1950s.

http://nata.aero/data/files/GIA/airspacerestrictions/0303airspacerestrdcny.pdf

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/faa-fines-80s-band-bassist-for-violating-nyc-airspace-with-quadrocopter/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace_class F and G are uncontrolled airspace. You can fly there pretty much without legal recourse, but civil recourse if damage results.

The deal is that the airspace rules do not say, no-drones, if you are in A-E space and something happens, the FAA will have jurisdiction and they will not be kind to you.

Edited September 4, 2015 by PB666

[GDJ]

This, once again, is largely dependent on your jurisdiction and local laws. Though launching even a small rocket in a city seems a bit silly. If there are loads of people about, take your hobby elsewhere.

[Camacha]

Check your airspace, you can find this by looking up the local maps of your airport. Although ignorance is not a defense, and the FAA would likely give you a warning, if you are in a city and you fly anything, there is a pretty good chance once your cross 500 feet you are violating an airspace rule. Best to fly in the country. I think that should set the minimum altitude for drones over residential areas at twice the height of the average utility lines. In cities that means you would have to fly between 60 feet and 500 (or 2000 feet) if you fly off the easement.

[J.Random]

Well deserved. Idiots flying drones in populated areas should be punished. Especially if the drone in question has open blades, but even if not, this thing falling on your head from, say, 20m will probably put you into hospital.

[Camacha]

Idiots flying drones in populated areas should be punished.

[J.Random]

Educated, I would say. Which is not always the same thing.

Would "negatively reinforced" be a better term? At the moment, most of the education on accident prevention while operating a drone is kinda darwinian. Like, people remember that you should switch your transmitter on first and then switch the drone on only after it tries to chop their fingers off.

[InterCity]

Quite possibly, though it depends on the jurisdiction you are in. In some places flying without a permit is prohibited, in other places you are not allowed to fly above buildings or crowds, or other rules exist. In all the various cases I know about, this would have been prohibited.

Besides, I can imagine that the location has some special rules applied to it too. I think it is only fair this guy gets arrested, it is these kinds of cowboys that spoil a great hobby for others.

Thanks god for central Europe with just mildly restricted model flights (we can legally fly our drones over any match)

[PB666]

Quite possibly, though it depends on the jurisdiction you are in. In some places flying without a permit is prohibited, in other places you are not allowed to fly above buildings or crowds, or other rules exist. In all the various cases I know about, this would have been prohibited.

Besides, I can imagine that the location has some special rules applied to it too. I think it is only fair this guy gets arrested, it is these kinds of cowboys that spoil a great hobby for others.

In this particular circumstance one player was intimidate more than another player, if you influenced the outcome of the match, and it turned out that you had a vested interest in the outcome, you might also be subject to a RICO investigation, particularly if you had placed bets in Las Vegas. So there are all kinds of legal hazards for buzzing a sports match, there are federal laws regarding match-fixing. On top of that their may be municipalities or states that apply laws regarding camera use and distances, such as in Sweden. And the US Supreme Court ruled that use of photographs or other recordings in places where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy is can be subject to legal or civil action. IOW, if you are doing something extra-ordinary, then there are a number of avenues that you act in a way that people are unaccustomed to your actions, be it airline pilots, people walking on the street, someone undressing in their bedroom in from of an open window behind a fence, or a player at a match you could be subjected to different avenues of civil and legal action.

Generally speaking, unless the laws protect you from action, if you harm someone or violate their privacy you can be arrested and/or sued. In the case of New York they can simply extend FAA jurisdiction and you will end up spending money in court trying to reverse fines or punishments, it will not cost them anything.

Imagine the following, It is February 5th, the Superbowl, X's team is losing, but not by much, X flies in low with a quad-copter and scare the quarterback of the opposing team, he is sacked hard and fumbles and the my teams recovers and scores, while the quarterback goes to the bench injured, minutes earlier I place a bet on the game that my team will win. So now you could suffer RICO investigation, the losing team could file a civil suit against you, the quarterback could charge you with assault, a rap you would probably beat, but the civil suit for injury would stick. The FAA may have restricted airspace over the event, as they sometimes do, and you would be in violation of that airspace designation, which would result in probably a misdemeanor charge and a fine. The RICO match fixing investigation alone you might beat if the prosecution cannot prove you collaborated with anyone, but it would go on for years and be incredibly expensive to fight.

[WestAir]

I'm not well versed on the range of these drones and UAV's, but I assume a good one could make it pretty far. That assumption made, I wonder how things will change once people start trying to fly them to places like the desert MOA and restricted area north of Las Vegas where Area 51 is. We've already had someone fly one over the White House.

I imagine these incidences will spark some sort of regulatory backlash that can hamper or cripple hobbyist.

Edited September 4, 2015 by WestAir

[Dkmdlb]

In this particular circumstance one player was intimidate more than another player, if you influenced the outcome of the match, and it turned out that you had a vested interest in the outcome, you might also be subject to a RICO investigation, particularly if you had placed bets in Las Vegas

1 - Bet on your team

2 - Go to the game and cheer your team

3 - ????

4 - Get arrested.

This thing about how laws are de facto justifiable is nonsense.