Warp drives or bust!!

[MajorLeaugeRocketScience]

So hello there geeky kerbonauts!!

I've been reading a lot lately about interstellar travel and how it'll take millions of years without warp drives. However, those warp drives are thousands of years away. Or are they?

NASA and other space agency's have been trying to crack warp drives doing something looking like this:

But I think they've been looking at it all wrong. Here's my theory:

If we can discover white matter (opposite of dark matter, which expands space/time) we use that to pull a point of space into a few feet in front of the ship, while its normally a few thousands light years away. Then it uses ion engines to travel across the bridge. After its on the other side, it uses dark matter to push the 2 points away again. Of course, this is highly theoretical

Any suggestions?

Btw here is what I say to warp drives: http://imgur.com/CIkxLLf

Edited September 6, 2015 by MajorLeaugeRocketScience

[LordFerret]

Bust.

[rtxoff]

Bust.

Read the other threads about this.

[NFUN]

Bust, until we can get our hands on matter that likely doesn't exist, or at the very least will be fiendishly difficult to fabricate. Also fusion, etc.

[Shpaget]

Any suggestions?

If you have something to say, say it. Do not just accuse others of being wrong announce your future explanation.

[PB666]

I kept looking for busts but I didn't see any, so i guess the theory is not quite warped enough feel free to warp it. :^)

Ergo, something more boring, a synopsis.

So a warp drive is basically a pressure tensor behind the traveling field an a negative energy pressure tensor in front. It could also be gravity, but then you would have to move E = mc^2 in front.

Since the inflaton established that localized average space-time could expnd faster than the speed of light. The it is possible. But the inflaton was active when there was no light and no normal matter, so that while things were moving away at greater than C, actually nothing was moving away. It lack something a warp drive would need, modulation. A quantum bubble that is unstable invited a bizarre version of space time to pour in everywhere in the bubble and the a tiniest fraction of a second later stopped, all hell broke loose all kinds of wierd matter appeared and disappeared light built in then prtons and electrons and we have CMBR. Not the best way to treat normal matter you want to move.

Currently there are ongoing studies of dark energy, the results are pardoxical. Either Einstiens cos. constant is real, and we are really inept at measuring it in local space, or dark energy is like a very shy virgin, she only would wants to reveal herself when noone else is looking, and it would appear that any matter (single cesium atoms are too big) disrupts the field. Basically unless we can build a very big vacuum capable of eliminating even hydrogen atoms, we can't be sure. If it turns out that she is really shy, then we can cause it to enter space where we want it to, it accelerates in the 10-3 range so it can get you to c in say 3000 to 30000 years.

Negative energy, thats a much bigger problem. It does not exist except in relative terms. And you have to create energy in front of your ship faster, faster than the ship is traveling. There are tacheons, not known to exist, and other exotic fields not known to exist. And so that is why everyone says its bust. Dark energy we don'T know what it is, and negative energy we don't know it exists outside of quantum mechanical speculations.

Edited September 6, 2015 by PB666

[MajorLeaugeRocketScience]

My theory: If we can discover white matter (opposite of dark matter, which expands space/time) we use that to pull a point of space into a few feet in front of the ship, while its normally a few thousands light years away. Then it uses ion engines to travel across the bridge. After its on the other side, it uses dark matter to push the 2 points away again. Of course, this is highly theoretical

[PB666]

My theory: If we can discover white matter (opposite of dark matter, which expands space/time) we use that to pull a point of space into a few feet in front of the ship, while its normally a few thousands light years away. Then it uses ion engines to travel across the bridge. After its on the other side, it uses dark matter to push the 2 points away again. Of course, this is highly theoretical

We are white matter. And the deal is, dark matter is coyly being relabeled dark gravity, because there are questions whether it is a particle in normal space-time. Specifically we are white particulate matter with some added kinetic and potential energy. If we really get into it most of our mass is an energy field called a gluon. So basically fields called quarks which are more particulate and unstable are stabilized by gluons and these then form things like protons, electrons are leptons in which is a field as much as a particle gets its mass from the higgs. Its murky white, but white none the less.

[MajorLeaugeRocketScience]

Ok than whatever a particle that contracts space time is

[PB666]

Ok than whatever a particle that contracts space time is

Mass interacts with higgs boson, the higgs field imparts inertia, gravity is simply the way inertia behaves in curved space-time. The graviton is suspected to exist, but has never been proven. It likely existed as a particle at the beginning of the universe during the preinflation epoch, but is largely regarded to be a field now. If you look at the post that I made earlier, they are launching a satellite that they hope, if it works, that will tell them if it is even possible to detect gravitons, but not actually detect them.

From what I understand matter and some forms of energy that gain inertia because of Higgs interation release gravitatinal waves that then warp space-time. Space-time is simply a four dimensional representation of an event parameters, and in the case a vacuum space the events typically are an object in enertial reference frames. Gravity warps space time, in order to contract such that it pulls, one really needs a black hole. The problem is that black holes are essentially frozen in time, once you cross the event horizon. So it will not collectively accelerate easily. What you need is something that is the opposite of non-inertial energy, and that is a problem because it implies it cannot be inertia, because then it is massive and carries momentum, there its energy aspect needs to be negated.

From what I understand negative energy can exist on the quantum scale, for times 10^-43 second and for tiny tiny lengths, lengths smaller than the nucleus of a proton. It does not stack well, this is a problem with QM. see K2s comments on Cannae drive. There is a speculation that negative energy may exist under exotic conditions and there is speculation that completely empty space, devoid of any matter or light, well, theres alot of speculation, including a cause of the big bang.

I will create another thread on space-time and there is a collection of about eight videos that explain all of this. not tonight though.

[LordFerret]

Wish I could remember her name; She gave a talk (last year?) on C-SPAN about multiverse theory and gravity... proposing that, perhaps, gravity being a weak force here in our universe, it may cross branes and be a strong(er) force elsewhere... her discussion related to string theory. Fascinating discussion. Wish I could remember her name; Blonde, foxy thing, smart gal.

Ring a bell, anyone?

[YNM]

@ OP: No. Dark matter is the same as usual matter in terms of gravitational effect (or bending of spacetime). What expands the Universe is called dark energy, and they're everywhere already. They doesn't change the form of spacetime (doesn't bend it in any way) - they just expands it.

The warp drive people are proposing (and looks fine, mind looks), called alcubierre drive, would need an amount of possitive pressure matter on the front then an amount of negative pressure matter on the back, while the bubble stays the way it is. I think the way how it'll warp is by making the two spacetime (inside and outside bubble) unconnected - maybe out of the extreme distortion. But even then people can't find any kind of compact matter that exerts negative pressure (and influence the form of spacetime) - that's why all are bust.

For your idea, at least look at where does EFE comes from and understand a bit of general relativity (at least the equivalence principle). Also, bending spacetime doesn't work like bending a sheet of paper.

[CommanderSpock]

The opposie of dark matter is normal matter, I believe, an I'm not sure that's possible. For all we know, normal warp drive is not possible.

[Shpaget]

Antimatter is opposite of normal matter. We have no idea what is dark matter, or even if it is matter at all.

[CommanderSpock]

Antimatter is opposite of normal matter. We have no idea what is dark matter, or even if it is matter at all.

Oh, my bad

[Cocox]

Let's wait what LHC studies reveal. A better understanding of fabric of space will be of a lot of help.

[GeneralVeers]

The concept MajorLeague described in the original post is pretty similar to the Alcubierre drive. In a mathematical sense, the concept is actually sound.

The real problem with the Alcubierre drive is that the ship flying in the warp bubble can't control it; the warp bubble can only be manipulated from the outside (apparently because it's impossible for signals to actually reach the front of the bubble from something inside it). Theoretically it would be possible to set up a series of warp gates (a hyperspace bypass? har har) to control the bubble as it travels, but the setting-up of the system would have to be done by ships travelling at sublight speed. Bummer.

[NFUN]

Antimatter is opposite of normal matter. We have no idea what is dark matter, or even if it is matter at all.

Antimatter is not the opposite of matter. It has the opposite EM traits as regular matter and different strong force colors, as well as some particle properties such as spin, but in general it behaves like normal matter, and almost certainly has the same gravity.

And yeah, dark matter isn't the opposite of normal matter, it is just a name for several theories that try to reconcile disparities from nature and our models, most notably that galaxies spin fast enough to be dispersed by centripetal force according to old theories. You are right that only a couple dark matter theories involve regular matter, the theory of Modified Newtonian Dynamics does not.

Edited September 6, 2015 by NFUN

[GeneralVeers]

Antimatter is not the opposite of matter. It has the opposite EM traits as regular matter, as well as some particle properties such as spin, but it behaves like normal matter in regards to the Strong Force and Gravity, which is what matters.

And in regards to chemical properties! Got some fun stuff about antimatter for ya, NFUN. Heheh. Fun for NFUN.

We humans have done more than merely create antimatter particles in the laboratory; we've been able to synthesize antihydrogen and antihelium! Neutrons and antiprotons in the nucleus, positrons forming the "electron" shell. Antimatter appears to be chemically identical to matter; take two atoms of antihydrogen and one atom of antioxygen, and you can make antiwater......

[NFUN]

And in regards to chemical properties! Got some fun stuff about antimatter for ya, NFUN. Heheh. Fun for NFUN.

We humans have done more than merely create antimatter particles in the laboratory; we've been able to synthesize antihydrogen and antihelium! Neutrons and antiprotons in the nucleus, positrons forming the "electron" shell. Antimatter appears to be chemically identical to matter; take two atoms of antihydrogen and one atom of antioxygen, and you can make antiwater......

Yeah, the electromagnetism traits are backwards, not different (though there's probably symmetry breaking somewhere), and since the strong force is the same (though colors are different), anti-particles can make atoms too.

[PB666]

Yeah, the electromagnetism traits are backwards, not different (though there's probably symmetry breaking somewhere), and since the strong force is the same (though colors are different), anti-particles can make atoms too.

They haven't found it, my speculation is that part of our universe is antimatter equivilent of ours, lol. the antiparticle of the photon is the photon. We really cant tell whether something is made from matter or antimatter at great distance by looking at it.

[rtxoff]

They haven't found it, my speculation is that part of our universe is antimatter equivilent of ours, lol. the antiparticle of the photon is the photon. We really cant tell whether something is made from matter or antimatter at great distance by looking at it.

That would be against the big bang theory. It's highly unlikely that there was a big bang with some of the antimatter escaped. Common opinion is that there was more of the normal matter which is all the matter we can see.

[Ralathon]

They haven't found it, my speculation is that part of our universe is antimatter equivilent of ours, lol. the antiparticle of the photon is the photon. We really cant tell whether something is made from matter or antimatter at great distance by looking at it.

If some region of the universe is made of antimatter the boundary would light up like a christmas tree. We would easily notice it. You would also have to propose some kind of mechanism to separate particles and antiparticles during the big bang, which is pretty damn hard to do considering the light cones.

Besides, we know that there's a CP violation during the decay of kaons. So we got a good lead on the lack of antimatter.

[SciMan]

The big thing about Alcubierre warp drives, and the one that puts them very slightly into the realm of possibility, is very simple.

You don't HAVE to travel faster than light with them.

As a matter of fact, as some comments in this thread have shown, it might be impossible to move faster than light, even WITH one.

People always link "warp drive" with "FTL travel". They're NOT linked by anything other than human brains thinking all warp drives work like the ones in Star Trek.

With ANY kind of relativistic travel, interplanetary transportation becomes quite trivial. Even interstellar travel becomes relatively easy. The hard part with interstellar travel is what to do once you get there, anyways.

[PB666]

Not if the boundary is alreadly traveling away form faster than the speed of light. Its a silly idea, because it could not explain assymetry, because the matter pockets would have ot be reasonably close to the antipockets.

- - - Updated - - -

That would be against the big bang theory. It's highly unlikely that there was a big bang with some of the antimatter escaped. Common opinion is that there was more of the normal matter which is all the matter we can see.

Why, the big bang doesn't care if the universe partitions, you could have a matter half and antimatter and the assymetry could be the result of some bias or diiference with QM in the early state. what i said I said laughingly, it has bigger problems, like the end of CMB the universe relative to the end of inflation is quite big. To explain our state The opaque epoch would have to end moments after inflaton to explain why currently we don't see the boundary between the two polarities. The exception is that these boundaries do exist but because of momentum from the opach epoch as a result of annihilation that they might exist but we cannot see them, redshifting is a bit of a statistical thing separations far from us could exist but we dont see it because of statical noise. This would mean that the first bias would cause selection of polarity that amplified to the end of the opaque. This would mean that no source of power in our polarity suffices to push us inot the opposite polarity. Caveots and blck swans allow for alot. Anyway we will never know.