That Thread In Which We Discuss The Merits of Different Systems of Measurement.

[Candre]

I\'ve adopted the metric system. I also prefer Kelvin, and I refer to kilometers as 'klicks.' It has a nice ring to it.

[silent_prtoagonist]

I grew up on imperial, but I\'ve been doing fairly well converting to metric, which I find to be much superior. Largely thanks to Orbiter I now naturally think of speeds over about 200mph in m/s. Meters and inches/feet I can use more or less interchangeably. I always use metric forces, masses and volumes (I never could keep in my head how many oz there are in a pint, etc). Anything outside of the normal range of temperatures is in celcius/kelvin, but I still have a hard time thinking of 30 deg C as a warm day

[Ydoow]

I grew up on imperial, but I\'ve been doing fairly well converting to metric, which I find to be much superior. Largely thanks to Orbiter I now naturally think of speeds over about 200mph in m/s. Meters and inches/feet I can use more or less interchangeably. I always use metric forces, masses and volumes (I never could keep in my head how many oz there are in a pint, etc). Anything outside of the normal range of temperatures is in celcius/kelvin, but I still have a hard time thinking of 30 deg C as a warm day

I\'m much like you. Except I\'ve gotten myself used to Centigrade.

I basically just had my weather app on my kindle tell me the temp in Centigrade, then over about 2 weeks I just learned what temps felt like.

I still understand Fahrenheit a bit better, but I still understand that ~28C (in my area) is super hot, and ~22 is pretty mild/warm.

That\'s all you have to do, just learn to associate feelings with the numbers.

Numbers are arbitrary.

That\'s what I keep telling everyone around me, but I always get

'It\'s 16 out? So what\'s that in Fahrenheit?'

'Go outside for 2 seconds. Feel how warm it is. Judge. And associate 16 with that feeling.'

'Okay, so 16 is like, 60-65 F?'

I want to hurt people quite often. Forget the numbers, just remember the feeling and stop trying to translate the units for pete\'s sake.

[Ydoow]

Personally, I like using imperial if only because different parts of my body are exact lengths for the scale. Seriously, my upper 1/3 of my pinkie is an inch, my foot is a foot, and my arm is a yard. Very odd, right?

Well...a yard is basically a meter just so you know

[McLuv]

Personally, I like using imperial if only because different parts of my body are exact lengths for the scale. Seriously, my upper 1/3 of my pinkie is an inch, my foot is a foot, and my arm is a yard. Very odd, right?

(Also, Kelvin IS the official temperature unit in SI. Celsius is not!)

Not sure if you were going for sarcasm or just your own anatomical similarities to some past king, but it IS because imperial was based on the body lengths of the king at the time. Of course, this meant that measurements would change with monarch success in the past, and that it wouldn\'t quite match up with everyone\'s anatomy, but it explains the seemingly primitive origins (much in the way that our decimal system is based on ten fingers).

Technically, each Celsius degree is equal to every Kelvin in magnitude, only their absolute references change (kelvin takes 0 as the theoretical minimum temperature possible, Celsius of course has to deal with melting point of water at a specific pressure, much more abstract from a scientific and general PoV).

Currently, the metric system is the easiest to do conversions with, especially within the realm of science. Converting between centimetres and kilometres (you just move the decimal point 5 digits) is a heck of a lot easier than going from inches to nautical miles, for instance.

[cardgame]

For science, centigrade is superior, but for humans Fahrenheit is a superior temperature gauge for this reason, imo: in most latitudes, 0* Fahrenheit is just about the coldest it will get and 100* is about the warmest it will get. This makes it less arbitrary and also allows for a much greater precision than -18 to 30.

[ping111]

For science, centigrade is superior, but for humans Fahrenheit is a superior temperature gauge for this reason, imo: in most latitudes, 0* Fahrenheit is just about the coldest it will get and 100* is about the warmest it will get. This makes it less arbitrary and also allows for a much greater precision than -18 to 30.

Keyword about. Seeing how much of science is based on water (volume, mass, etc.), it only make sense for the temperature of water to be the base for the temperature system. Such is the case with Centigrade.

[LukeTim]

For science, centigrade is superior, but for humans Fahrenheit is a superior temperature gauge for this reason, imo: in most latitudes, 0* Fahrenheit is just about the coldest it will get and 100* is about the warmest it will get. This makes it less arbitrary and also allows for a much greater precision than -18 to 30.

I dunno. I quite like Rankine. 459.67 to 559.67 is pretty easy to remember, right?

[Kryten]

If 47 centimetres is something impossible to conceptualise, then why isn\'t 70 degrees?

[cardgame]

It\'s a different unit of measurement.

[GOOMH]

I was raised on imperial but metric makes so much more sense. Take Celsius, it\'s based on the boiling and freezing of water while Fahrenheit based on the freezing point of brine. Of course I can\'t tell you how far 26 cm is without some forethought but still metric is easier to use and is based on sensible things. When you get down to things it\'s all arbitrary numbers which mean nothing until you give it meaning.

[McLuv]

If it\'s science generally, Kelvin is by far a more universal reference frame than either Celsius or Farenheit. Even being based on water is completely arbitrary, because it\'s not just temperature but also pressure and other local influences that have an impact.

The best scientific metrics are those that are definable in the most general and universal terms. I basically think of it as the following: If we were to meet some alien race from Mars (heck, from another galaxy even, since Mars is still very local on an astronomic scale), how would you describe your units of measurement? How do you describe how big the Earth is, for instance?

Describing the size of the earth in terms of one man\'s foot length won\'t work, because how long\'s a foot? Instead, you could describe it in terms of metres, which are each 1/299 792 458 the distance that light travels in a vacuum in a second, where further a second is a certain ratio of the radioactive decay rate of an isotope. As long as the laws of physics don\'t change with space and time (if they did, they wouldn\'t be universal), then you now have a universal system of reference, which is precisely what has happened to the description of SI units.

[LongHairedHuman]

- snip -

And what if the aliens don\'t use a decimal digit system? :trollface:

[Amram]

There is no satisfactory in=between of centimeters and meters.

47 centimeters is too high of a number to conceptualize/visualize, unlike 18 inches. Of course, this may not be the case for a native Metrican, but for an Imperialist such as I, \'tis a problem.

coming from someone that is supporting a system that uses 32nds and smaller of one inch in regular usage(tools for one), how is half a meter such a problem if you have such distaste for the decimeter?

commonly used or not, there is a very valid in between.

Metric is just simpler to work with. case in point, how many miles are 343,000 inches? If you turned to either google, a calculator, or paper, my point is made. 343,000 centimeters is 3,430 meters, is 3.43 km, done.

straight simple moving of a decimal point. its alot better than trying to get from inches to a mile, not everyone knows that 63360 inches go into one mile.

1000 mils to an inch, 12 inches to a foot, 3 feet to a yard, 22 yards to a chain, 10 chains to a furlong, 8 furlongs to a mile. 1000, 12, 3, 22, 10, 8. its much harder to remember that sequence, and much more difficult to move back and forth through the units than to move a decimal. 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10.......etc, thats all metric is. Same quantities, different number, its all in your head, but metric is much simpler in concept, teaching, and math while not losing accuracy in changing units mentally.

both can give any needed precision using decimals as necessary, both are easily visualised when familiar. Realistically, its entirely in your head, either you can cope with the unit, or you can\'t.

Temperature is no different, and many places on earth exceed 100f, the southern states frequently see 110 or hotter every year. Neither celsius nor fahrenheit neatly bound the planet\'s variations. Again, its all in your head mostly.

[Imandreas]

110 degrees fareinheit?

*Imandreas stops driving*

[Nibb31]

Nobody mentioned another big advantage of the metric system: You can easily convert totally different measurements: 1 litre of water weighs 1kg. 1 cubic meter weighs a metric ton. A watt is 1 joule per second.

Those are much easier to visualize than trying to figure out how much a gallon weighs, the volume of a ounce, or converting horsepower to foot-pound-force per second.

Incidentally, we all have it wrong when it comes to the number of digits. Our base-10 numbering system, is empirically based on human morphology, but 10 digits can only be divided by 1, 2, and 5. Base-12 is superior, because it can be divided by 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6, which would simplify a lot of decimal calculation. Therefore, the best system would probably be a metric system based on 12 digits.

[Charzy]

Or, use the Mayan system of 20s.

It can be divided by 1, 2, 4, 5, 10 and 20

[Tim_Barrett]

Sometimes I wonder why my country has to be so 'different' and make everything much harder to compute and figure out...

I agree, metric would be easier, but hey, I don\'t know how tall I am in meters!

[Endeavour]

As an American, I always see imperial measurements. I have just learned to remember my simplified conversions. 1 meter = 1 yard (close enough) and 1.5 kilometers = 1 mile (close enough). Divide your weigh in pounds by 2 to get an approximate of your mass in kilograms. I wish my country would switch.

[Ted]

For science, centigrade is superior, but for humans Fahrenheit is a superior temperature gauge for this reason, imo: in most latitudes, 0* Fahrenheit is just about the coldest it will get and 100* is about the warmest it will get. This makes it less arbitrary and also allows for a much greater precision than -18 to 30.

I used to live in a hot country that would get to about 120F in the summer, it was much easier to use C there. I tend to use Celsius for most things as 0 is freezing water and 100 is boiling water, so considering temperatures relative to that is easy, whereas 100F is the temperature of horses blood..

I use SI units as it\'s much easier to do physics calculations in programming with them and 1L of water is 1KG, which makes for easy conversions of water volume to weight.

For large distances I interchange Miles and KM.

It\'s personal preference when doing things by yourself, however when it comes to group or public work, SI should always be used as the majority of humanity does use it.

[Ydoow]

1) Centigrade was made specifically for the common folk to use; it was based on boiling/freezing temps. of water which the average person would need to know.

0 is freezing, 100 is boiling.

So any argument that 'Fahrenheit is better for the average person' seems like a weak argument to me.

Hell, 90% of people can\'t even spell Fahrenheit. (I couldn\'t until this thread, thank you!)

2) Way too many people are too hung up on 'Kilometer? How many miles is that?'

Screw the miles! Do you really care how many miles away something is?

95% of the time, no. You do not. You care about how long it will take you to travel that distance.

e.g. For most Americans, 30 miles means ~30 minutes. The assumption actually always comes down to a ratio of about 1:1, 1mile = 1minute.

Here\'s why I think Kilometers is better and more awesome.

Standard speed limit on U.S. Highways is 65miles/hour

It\'s logical, and acceptable to derive our 1:1 mile:minute ratio out of this by rounding 65mph ->60mph (60 miles traveled in 60 minutes)

Here\'s the thing. Most people drive ~70 or ~75mph and to compensate they will say '40 miles? Okay, I\'ll be about...35 minutes'

We simply figure 40miles=40 minutes, then subtract a small amount from that time.

It\'s inaccuracy on top of the 65->60mph rounding :l

Let\'s look at it in metric.

100 is a nice number to divide by, no?

100kph = ~62mph, pretty close to our speed limit, so we could round our calculated speed to 100kph when finding time to travel.

i.e. '60km away? Knowing that I drive approximately 100kmh, I\'ll be there in .6 hours!'

Well derp Ydoow, how many minutes? .6hours x 60minutes = 36 minutes.

If you can\'t do that in your head, please go away :l

So here we can figure any distance is divided by 100, and multiplied by 60. Which, really now, is not hard to do.

This is slightly more accurate than assuming we\'re driving at 60mph instead of 65mph as well.

Let\'s go further.

You drive ~75mph? Oh you speed demon!

Guess what, 74.5mph = 120kph

That\'s really damn close.

120kph is the most satisfying rate of time and distance imo.

'60km away? Okay traveling at 120kph I\'ll be there in .5hours!'

.5hours x 60minutes = 30 minutes.

Basically, divide your distance by half and that\'s your time to travel.

Tl;Dr?

100km/h is a more accurate travel time estimation than 65mph; divide travel distance (in km) by 100, and multiply answer by 60 minutes.

120km/h is even more accurate and easier; divide travel distance (in km) by 2, your answer is your travel time (in minutes)

Examples:

40km / 100km/hr = .4hr -> .4hr x 60minutes = 24minutes.

40km / 2km/min = 20 minutes to drive. (at 120km/hr your travelling 2km/min)

Both speeds are very close to actual U.S. mph speed limits.

[McLuv]

As an American, I always see imperial measurements. I have just learned to remember my simplified conversions. 1 meter = 1 yard (close enough) and 1.5 kilometers = 1 mile (close enough). Divide your weigh in pounds by 2 to get an approximate of your mass in kilograms. I wish my country would switch.

Canada, not being completely metric officially, still uses many imperial units casually. Weight is usually listed in pounds (kilos on official documents), height is measured in feet/inches (except on your ID where it\'s in cm), and being right on the US border also means that I have to do those conversions myself as well. Although I use 1.6 kilometers to the mile for better accuracy.

[cardgame]

1) Centigrade was made specifically for the common folk to use; it was based on boiling/freezing temps. of water which the average person would need to know.

0 is freezing, 100 is boiling.

So any argument that 'Fahrenheit is better for the average person' seems like a weak argument to me.

Hell, 90% of people can\'t even spell Fahrenheit. (I couldn\'t until this thread, thank you!)

2) Way too many people are too hung up on 'Kilometer? How many miles is that?'

Screw the miles! Do you really care how many miles away something is?

95% of the time, no. You do not. You care about how long it will take you to travel that distance.

e.g. For most Americans, 30 miles means ~30 minutes. The assumption actually always comes down to a ratio of about 1:1, 1mile = 1minute.

Here\'s why I think Kilometers is better and more awesome.

Standard speed limit on U.S. Highways is 65miles/hour

It\'s logical, and acceptable to derive our 1:1 mile:minute ratio out of this by rounding 65mph ->60mph (60 miles traveled in 60 minutes)

Here\'s the thing. Most people drive ~70 or ~75mph and to compensate they will say '40 miles? Okay, I\'ll be about...35 minutes'

We simply figure 40miles=40 minutes, then subtract a small amount from that time.

It\'s inaccuracy on top of the 65->60mph rounding :l

Let\'s look at it in metric.

100 is a nice number to divide by, no?

100kph = ~62mph, pretty close to our speed limit, so we could round our calculated speed to 100kph when finding time to travel.

i.e. '60km away? Knowing that I drive approximately 100kmh, I\'ll be there in .6 hours!'

Well derp Ydoow, how many minutes? .6hours x 60minutes = 36 minutes.

If you can\'t do that in your head, please go away :l

So here we can figure any distance is divided by 100, and multiplied by 60. Which, really now, is not hard to do.

This is slightly more accurate than assuming we\'re driving at 60mph instead of 65mph as well.

Let\'s go further.

You drive ~75mph? Oh you speed demon!

Guess what, 74.5mph = 120kph

That\'s really damn close.

120kph is the most satisfying rate of time and distance imo.

'60km away? Okay traveling at 120kph I\'ll be there in .5hours!'

.5hours x 60minutes = 30 minutes.

Basically, divide your distance by half and that\'s your time to travel.

Tl;Dr?

100km/h is a more accurate travel time estimation than 65mph; divide travel distance (in km) by 100, and multiply answer by 60 minutes.

120km/h is even more accurate and easier; divide travel distance (in km) by 2, your answer is your travel time (in minutes)

Examples:

40km / 100km/hr = .4hr -> .4hr x 60minutes = 24minutes.

40km / 2km/min = 20 minutes to drive. (at 120km/hr your travelling 2km/min)

Both speeds are very close to actual U.S. mph speed limits.

This is a good post. Honestly, I do think that we should begin a conversion to metric with bilingual signposts and labels (hell, food/drink already does this).

I\'ll stick to my Fahrenheit though ;P

[Johno]

I thought it might be worth giving a perspective from someone who has lived in the Metric world all of my life. Australia converted over in the 1960s (along with instituting decimal currency; don\'t ask what it was like before!).

A few problems noted:

* The lack of an in-between for centimetres and metres: As noted, the decimetre technically exists. In practice we don\'t use it. In fact, engineers and tradesmen rarely use even centimetres (although these are useful for day-to-day measurements in the household); most of the time, a carpenter will describe a piece of timber as being 1200mm long. For most of us, metres are perfectly good for big objects, centimetres for small ones.

* Kilometres are a great measurement for long distances. My pace is around a metre, so a good approximation is to count a thousand paces, and I\'m usually at a kilometre (give or take 10% or so).

* Speed limits are simple too - for suburban driving it\'s 50km/h, for arterial roads it\'s 60, 70 or 80 km/h (see signs), for country roads it\'s 100km/h and for freeways it\'s 110km/h.

* Metres per second are used almost exclusively by physicists. That\'s okay, though - kids rarely have trouble understanding how to calculate them. Interconverting between m/s and km/h can be a problem; however, you seldom actually need to do it.

* Once you get your head around it, temperatures in degrees C are easy (we almost always say 'Celcius' now, rather than 'Centigrade'). 0 for freezing, 100 for boiling. Incidentally, someone (forget who, sorry) described 22 as a warm day, 28 as a hot day - that\'s relative! For me, 25 is a nice moderate day and 35 is a hot day. 40 is stinking hot. I live in Western Sydney, though, so it\'s all about what you\'ll experience in a typical year. (The opposite is also true - for me, 6 degrees is incredibly cold; we don\'t ever get snow!).

[mincespy]

Metric is better because it\'s simpler.