Istandwithahmed

[Nuke]

http://i.imgur.com/jGZ8RBU.jpg

To be fair, at a glance that looks suspicious

i see a power supply and a driver for a bunch of 7 segment displays.

Yeah, I'd have to agree. I've worked with Arduino boards and the like, so if it was just a bunch of wires and a battery, it wouldn't be so bad.

But that white packet thing in the corner is weird.

Anyways, it's good that he got off without any charges.

lipo pack, or perhaps an arduino wrapped in shielding (ive had to do that for example interfacing with some lcd screens).

Edited September 17, 2015 by Nuke

[Robotengineer]

Do not be silly. Nothing is understandable here. You ask the kid what it is and he tells you it is a clock, end of story. No drama there. No, you create a fairly traumatizing scare for the kid and the whole school - and people did not even respond appropriately, because you missed the essential bit:

-snip-

We really need to calm down and get our act together.

But if he was a terrorist, wouldn't he say the same thing? For the record, I don't support what the teachers and police did.

[Camacha]

Really? So he's smart enough to make a clock but not to figure out that making it look like a Hollywood bomb and taking it to school with the alarm set is a dumb idea? I don't buy it.

You would better believe it. Do not forget he is 14. Not legally allowed to make important decisions. Do you know why that is? Because kids have trouble fully understanding the consequences of the things they do. Saying he is smart enough to make a clock does not jive, because that is a different type of process, something well recognized by science. Things simply are not wired the way they are in adults and it is not something that can be blamed on them - it just is the way it is.

As to me not understanding these kinds of reactions? Maybe I am a bit daft, who knows. Maybe it is that I know there is no reason to panic, and refuse to be swept along by those that misguidedly do. Yes, there are bad things out there, but that does not mean we should quiver and shake at the sight of things not even actually related.

But if he was a terrorist, wouldn't he say the same thing?

Probably not. A well known and used police and TSA strategy is just asking who people are or what they are doing. Most people give themselves away when confronted like that. If a child is able to give to show you what is what in a well informed manner, you can stand down.

Besides, the response was ill advised either way. It either looks like some kind of bad joke and you ask the kid to explain what is going on because it is not actually a threat, or it is a threat (or you perceive it as such) and you jump on him and evacuate the building. Neither has happened, it was some kind of middle of the road approach that is an overreaction to anything innocent and an incompetent response to something dangerous. It raises the question whether these people should be in charge of children.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Camacha

[Hagen von Tronje]

As to me not understanding these kinds of reactions? Maybe I am a bit daft, who knows. Maybe it is that I know there is no reason to panic, and refuse to be swept along by those that misguidedly do. Yes, there are bad things out there, but that does not mean we should quiver and shake at the sight of things not even actually related.

I still do not think you get what I'm saying.

I am not saying the reaction was what well-informed, intelligent people should do. I am saying that, surprisingly enough, the world isn't populated by well-informed, intelligent individuals, it's largely populated by completely average joes. Failure to take into account that average joes are numerous and irrational is itself irrational; it doesn't make you smarter than them, it makes you naive*. Fourteen certainly is young, and he should have all lenience because of it, but it's old enough that if he can't piece together what he might have done to prevent this, he needs coaching ASAP. He's a few years from bearing sole legal responsibility for all his actions, whether the world is fair or not he should probably get a handle on that for his own safety.

Keep in mind that in 2015, taking aspirin or a butter knife to public school is a good way to get expelled. It doesn't take great imagination to determine that a homemade electronic device in a beat up metal case will send people who make rules like that into a tailspin.

*Just to be clear, this isn't intended as an ad hominem against you - I use "you" in the nonspecific sense.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Hagen von Tronje

[Camacha]

Fourteen certainly is young, and he should have all lenience because of it, but it's old enough that if he can't piece together what he might have done to prevent this, he needs coaching ASAP.

No. You did not understand what I said if you still say this. Young people are not fully wired yet. Pretending they are can only lead to pain and suffering. They are not small, impulsive adults. They are people with brains that have not fully formed yet, with the bits that deal with the more subtle, but socially so very important sides of society forming last.

Keep in mind that in 2015, taking aspirin or a butter knife to public school is a good way to get expelled.

Which is ridiculous too, for reasons explained. Zero tolerance policies are extremely harmful to an already fragile group, while the real problem is not properly dealt with. It is a great way of being counter productive, but at least you feel like you did something.

It doesn't take great imagination to determine that a homemade electronic device in a beat up metal case will send people who make rules like that into a tailspin.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing, though it tends to skew perceptions.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Camacha

[cicatrix]

I think Google reached out to him. Also president Obama invited him to the white house (with his clock if he wanted) over tweets and says there need to be more science. Facebook guy Mark Zukerberg also says he can come over. Kid is an instant celebrity now.

The school is about to be sued, very soon, I believe.

Oh and he got no charges, because of course.

At first, following the spin I was kinda, lets say, outraged and felt sorry for Ahmed. But then I calmed down and considered this case more closely. Perhaps the police shouldn't have handcuffed the kid, etc, but imagine another clever geeky kid somewhere who mades a real bomb and brings it to his school to settle some personal scores. What? Impossible? One can make explosives out of nearly everything these days and all the instructions are out there in the Internet. His teachers, seeing it, would think 'Oh, what a clever boy, he made a clock!' and then the thing would go off... How to tell the difference here?

[Camacha]

At first, following the spin I was kinda, lets say, outraged and felt sorry for Ahmed. But then I calmed down and considered this case more closely. Perhaps the police shouldn't have handcuffed the kid, etc, but imagine another clever geeky kid somewhere who mades a real bomb and brings it to his school to settle some personal scores. What? Impossible? One can make explosives out of nearly everything these days and all the instructions are out there in the Internet. His teachers, seeing it, would think 'Oh, what a clever boy, he made a clock!' and then the thing would go off... How to tell the difference here?

This argument has been put forward before, but it quickly falls apart. If this truly was the concern, the school reacted with utter incompetence. If the kid truly made some malicious device, everyone would have been in big trouble. The school was not evacuated, the kid was not jumped or restrained by teachers - nothing has been done to eliminate a real threat.

Besides, unless you implement airport style security (which I would not advice), any kid can carry anything to school. Being paranoid and unfair is not a good approach. Life inherently carries risks, we either need to deal with that reality, or forfeit the concept of a free society. You cannot have that cake and eat it too.

[cicatrix]

Being paranoid and unfair is not a good approach. Life inherently carries risks, we either need to deal with that reality, or forfeit the concept of a free society. You cannot have that cake and eat it too.

See, the police and the teachers will be blamed in ANY case. The kids are always innocent, aren't they?

[Duxwing]

See, the police and the teachers will be blamed in ANY case. The kids are always innocent, aren't they?

Of course the kids are always innocent: the adults are responsible for them in every case.

-Duxwing

[Camacha]

Watch out!

See, the police and the teachers will be blamed in ANY case.

That is an argument ad extremum. If they do good, they get lauded. If they mess up like they did here, they get blamed.

The kids are always innocent, aren't they?

Again, ad extremum. Kids cannot be held accountable for their actions like adults can, though I do not think adults should be taken down for inadvertently tripping someone's paranoia either. We have to be wary for the situation where anyone not being a model citizen is suspicious. People should be allowed to do what they want unless it is dangerous. If you have to avoid anything and everything that might seem odd to anyone else, you have very little left to do. Wear your hat low over your eyes? You might be a terrorist. Have another religion? You might be a terrorist. Flying a simulator? You might be a terrorist. Step away from your bags? Walk your dog at night? Fly model rockets? See how that works?

We need to breed a little more trust, rather than adjust our behaviour to paranoia. It is almost like the 60's again, where everyone and his neighbour suddenly was a communist.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Camacha

[Plume & Akakak]

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that this sort of injustice is a good thing, but you've got to admit that there is a pretty good silver lining in this young man's cloud. And to suggest that the response is only a circus is overly cynical, IMHO. People are very likely reaching out because they can empathize with him. Maybe they see a bit of themselves in him and it makes the injustice (and the desire to help set it right) all the more profound.

I am glad that there has been such an outpouring of support for Ahmed, and I hope he gets to take advantage of some of the opportunities that he is being given. Hopefully it will broaden his horizons and show him that not everyone is as narrow minded as the people in his school.

Having to learn how to properly bow in front of the cameras and before the mighty who are organizing the "public show of late justice" is the last thing one needs after a difficult experience like that one. The kid will receive presents as a sort of compensation, but the purpose of such ostentatious rituals is less to appease the victim than to soothe the surrounding crowd.

In my opinion, there's something wrong with the idea that massive mediatization is the key to all benefits. And I have doubts about the fully angelic nature of web-vigilantism.

It could have been solved more calmly, and certainly without the theatrical appearance of kings at the end of the play.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Plume & Akakak

[Endersmens]

Which is ridiculous too, for reasons explained. Zero tolerance policies are extremely harmful to an already fragile group, while the real problem is not properly dealt with. It is a great way of being counter productive, but at least you feel like you did something.

You know, I actually know what he's going through.

In January, my little brother decided he wanted to use my backpack to transport a BB pistol to a friends house. He never took it out. And he didn't tell me.

So I'm at school the next day, I open my backpack, pull out my school Chromebook, and there it was. In my backpack. It didn't have an orange tip or anything. It looked real. My heart dropped and I felt my face turn red. The person next to me saw it before I could close my bag. I tried to explain what had happened, but because I was so freaked out, I ended up making the situation worse. He either told somebody else, or he told the office directly, but either way, I went to the office to make a phone call and the Principle and Assistant Principle called me into one of their offices and asked what they would find if they went through my backpack.

I explained what had happened, and they called my brother to the office and asked him about it, and he admitted to putting it in my backpack and forgetting to take it out. They knew exactly what had happened. And you know what? They expelled me anyways.

Yep. I was expelled from school for the rest of the semester. Their reasoning was that since I didn't immediately take it to the office when I found it, and that somebody saw it, that I must have showed it to them. But of course I didn't take it to the office, I thought I would be in trouble either way. I was just going to try to make it through the day and get out of there.

This ruined me, because I wasn't allowed to do Track, the thing I love to do the most. I almost wasn't allowed to go to Prom with my girlfriend.

So yes, I stand with Ahmed. I sincerely hope they don't suspend him any more.

Zero tolerance policies suck.

[PakledHostage]

The kid will receive presents as a sort of compensation, but the purpose of such ostentatious rituals is less to appease the victim than to soothe the surrounding crowd, IMHO.

Fixed that for you.

In my opinion, there's something wrong with the idea that massive mediatisation is the key to all benefits. And I have doubts about the fully angelic nature of web-vigilantism.

It could have been solved more calmly, and certainly without the theatrical appearance of kings at the end of the play.

And while I agree with you that there were definitely better ways to handle this situation, we aren't talking about web vigilantism here (at least I wasn't when I started the thread). I agree with you that most web vigilantism is anything but angelic.

That said, I don't think that there is anything wrong with a few prominent people who are in positions to help set things right to step up and try to do so. You may certainly choose to cynically dismiss their efforts as being nothing more than "the appearance of kings at the end of the play", but I am not so jaded. I prefer to believe that there is good in most people, no matter their position in society.

[Yukon0009]

Has the article bee removed..?

[adsii1970]

Zero tolerance policies suck.

[moogoob]

Schools are wretched places, where dreams die, freedoms are squashed and trust in adults gives say to cynicsm. From what I understand, it's gotten even worse since I was in high school in the late 90s (just pre-columbine).

I was one of those weird kids, but I knew enough to not trust the system. Don't show anything out of the ordinary and the system would have no reason to single you out capriciously or unfairly. If I had been him, I would have kept my clock at home, unless a teacher requested (and vouched for me!) to bring it in.

Yes, I'm terribly cynical and many of you probably disagree with me, but that was my experience.

[Camacha]

In this case, I believe it is nothing other than pure jealousy (notice I say jealousy and not racism or stereotyping). He was able to construct something that the ordinary student his age could not do. We have people in our educational system that do not want rising stars, but want to keep everyone at the same level. I feel sorry for young high-school aged people today. Many are not taught to their full ability to learn nor to use their natural abilities because it would make some schmuck in the class feel bad because they cannot do the same thing. I taught junior high for two years before I began teaching college - and I was always frowned upon by the administration when I would allow and encourage my super-star academic students to participate in regional history/social studies fairs sponsored by local colleges. I even paid the registration fees for the top five students I had to enter those competitions.

Many teachers do their best, or at least what they can within their budget, organisation and talents. Some are better than others, but most do try. Of course, there is always a group that has simply checked out or that cannot deal with the disappointments of life and that take it out on students.

[Camacha]

fake bomb, Hollywood style.

I believe we hit something important here. Most people do not have a clue what an actual bomb looks like. That is a good thing, but it also means people are helplessly ill equipped to deal with situations like these. People see something a prop maker came up with on television and do not realize that any real device is probably very unlikely to look like that. Things on television just need to look interesting and attract attention, pretty much the opposite of what you would want in real life.

No terrorist is going to take the effort to build a display, only so that people trying to thwart his evil plan can see how much time they have left and to spread more evidence around.

I believe we collectively must be on government lists by now, with posts filled with terms like that

[Kerbart]

We weren't there so it's risky to judge, but based on what's being told and shown:

• The clock looks "like a bomb?" Maybe, but I doubt there was ill intent. You either need to cut a window in the container or you need a transparent container; the kid opted for one of those tiny plastic transparent briefcases you can buy at a dollar store.
  
• Wires, battery, countdown timer. Yes, it does look like a Hollywood bomb. You'll still need explosives though and those were missing.
  
• We *know* it's not a bomb

Ok, so where does this get us?

• It obviously wasn't an attempt to blow up the school, as some key elements were missing
  
• The school claimed it was brought to school as a hoax bomb
  

But that doesn't add up to me. Nobody seems to deny what we're being told:

• Kid shows clock to first teacher
  
• Teacher reacts with that's really cool but simple minded fools my colleagues may think it looks like a bomb, better keep it out of sight
  
• Kid keeps it out of sight and even doesn't want to show it when teacher is asking for it.
  
• Kid keeps telling it's a clock

Now either he's playing an extremely smart game of reverse psychology here or he's simply a nerdy kid who innocently brought a clock not realizing that some people might think it's a bomb instead. Occam's razor tells me it's the second option. If he wanted to scare people with a bomb he'd have added to sticks of clay and "hidden" the device somewhere where it would easily be found. Bringing a clock that looks like a bomb and claiming it's a clock so the school would think you'd be hiding the fact that it's a bomb... Nah. Unlikely. Not for a 14yr old who's into electronics.

"He's also the school champion of the board game Diplomacy." Now, that would change things...

[Hobbes Novakoff]

The problem isn't with schools, but with people constantly underestimating kids, and not giving kids even a chance to prove their ability. I'm lucky enough to go to an accelerated school, where the teachers are smart and the work is challenging, but I remember one example of the persistent dumbing down of everything. I was in an middle school astronomy camp/class/whatever, and the teacher was explaining what black holes were. It went something like this: "They exist. They're black. Moving on..." I raised my hand and said something along the lines of "Well, there's a lot of interesting facts about how they bend spacetime" and at the very mention of "spacetime" the teacher immediately locked down: "no, no, that's too complicated" and went back to teaching us what stars were made out of. I didn't go back to that class.

[regex]

This entire story reeks of racism, pure and simple. Brown-skinned Muslim child brings a homemade clock to school and instead of trusting the child's word that it is a clock the teacher(s) insist is a "hoax bomb" and call the cops.

[regex]

Trust no one, regardless of skin color or everything else.

Everyone have a plan to kill you, by intent or stupidity - the question is when they plan to make their move.

With this thing in mind, you will live longer.

Teachers just decided to not take a chances - a good decision. Call the cops - they will sort everything out, they are trained professionals after all.

Next thing you know the entire populace is paralyzed with fear any time someone does something out of the ordinary; "Call the cops!". What an awesome way to live life, not being able to trust your neighbor.

[Kinglet]

Trust no one, regardless of skin color or everything else.

Everyone have a plan to kill you, by intent or stupidity - the question is when they plan to make their move.

With this thing in mind, you will live longer.

Teachers just decided to not take a chances - a good decision. Call the cops - they will sort everything out, they are trained professionals after all.

Trained professionals that interrogated a boy for building a clock.

[Camacha]

Trust no one, regardless of skin color or everything else.

Everyone have a plan to kill you, by intent or stupidity - the question is when they plan to make their move.

With this thing in mind, you will live longer.

False. Distrusting everyone will lead to high stress levels, inefficient operation and a distinct lack of friends. People with a good social network (i.e. people that trust others) live longer, so much has been proven statistically.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Trust no one, regardless of skin color or everything else.

Everyone have a plan to kill you, by intent or stupidity - the question is when they plan to make their move.

With this thing in mind, you will live longer.

Teachers just decided to not take a chances - a good decision. Call the cops - they will sort everything out, they are trained professionals after all.

Please don't take my personally, but this attitude is the result of fear mongering. I don't blame anyone in particular for this. I agree with regex, Kinglet, Camacha, and Plume & Akakak, too.