[Min KSP: 1.12.2] Pathfinder - Space Camping & Geoscience

[capi3101]

10 hours ago, Jofe said:

That did the trick. A lvl 1 engineer needed like 550-600 equipment to build it. I went back and fort on the tutorial and apparently there's a kinda free buckboard (I hope lol) so I changed that one to equipment and I think it gives me around 630-660 total. Picked up a couple of transfer stations (a part I didn't know existed because I stopped playing for quite a while, thought it was just still the regular ports) and a couple of ports and connected both buckboards to the Ponderosa and that was it, I was able to inflate it and for now I'm at that point. Thank you very much.

 

Before I forget, is the Buffalo a little unstable by nature or is something else in my game? Because if I try to turn a little too much even at low speed it will try to roll over.

Glad to hear that it worked out for you. If you'd like some more pointers for a base-seeding rover kit, let me know and I'll share.

As for the stability of the parts, the most intuitive way of putting them together would tend towards longer, skinnier rover designs with relatively high centers of mass, which tends to be an unstable combination for rovers in general. The Buffalo command pod itself has a lot of SAS torque as well, largely so the designs can handle some pretty hefty loads easily. If you leave things at their default settings, you can get a light enough rover out on Minmus "driving" by flipping end-over-end. Now, that torque is very nice when you wind up landing on your side out on Mun, because you should be able to roll your rover back on its wheels. All the same, you might consider widening out your wheelbase a bit if you experience too many issues. Or just make your rovers really heavy - my TBD series runs around 40-50 tonnes while still fully loaded.

[Angelo Kerman]

That tutorial is out of date I'm afraid. I don't have the time right now to update it.

Regarding rollover, the Buffalo command pod has lots of torque for exactly that reason. Where I to redo Buffalo, I'd make it more like the MMSEV (the original concept was MMSEV, but shaped like the vehicles around KSC), and lower CoM.

[shdwlrd]

Here are few tricks I used with the Buffalo (and other rover mods) to discourage roll overs. Turn off the SAS and reduce the torque unless you actually need it. Put as much weight as you can into and on the frame. (Batteries and ore tanks is what I use.) Limit your speed to 20m/s, and don't turn going over 10m/s.

[DStaal]

I've found I like using SAS - used correctly.  First, switch all reactions wheels to SAS-only, *then* use SAS - the reaction wheels then are set to just hold orientation.

Note that you'll likely have to switch them back to activating via the pilot if you do roll over and want to use them to roll back.

[capi3101]

1 hour ago, shdwlrd said:

Put as much weight as you can into and on the frame.

A Wagon full of Equipment works wonders here as a starter payload. Just saying. I typically load up with 8800 units; it's enough to deploy a Pondy, a Casa and three Haciendas with a zero-star engineer with some left over. Take all that with you, make two of those Haciendas Claim Jumpers and the third an Ironworks and you've got a nice setup for expanding the base further (ala what I usually wind up with, a thousand tonne monstrosity).

Nothing (besides Tsiolkovsky) says you can't load the Wagon all the way up though. Maxes out at 12,800 units, IIRC.

Edited July 14, 2020 by capi3101

[Jofe]

6 hours ago, capi3101 said:

Glad to hear that it worked out for you. If you'd like some more pointers for a base-seeding rover kit, let me know and I'll share.

As for the stability of the parts, the most intuitive way of putting them together would tend towards longer, skinnier rover designs with relatively high centers of mass, which tends to be an unstable combination for rovers in general. The Buffalo command pod itself has a lot of SAS torque as well, largely so the designs can handle some pretty hefty loads easily. If you leave things at their default settings, you can get a light enough rover out on Minmus "driving" by flipping end-over-end. Now, that torque is very nice when you wind up landing on your side out on Mun, because you should be able to roll your rover back on its wheels. All the same, you might consider widening out your wheelbase a bit if you experience too many issues. Or just make your rovers really heavy - my TBD series runs around 40-50 tonnes while still fully loaded.

Sure, any help is appreciated. I was wondering mostly because it happens with the one that is included in the tutorial. Besides a rover I made for the ksc science contracts (Made of the command cab, the crew cabin, a ground stabilizer, 4 pairs of wheels and some science experiments) I haven't really tried my hand at rover making. While I have the question train rolling. Is there a way to carry resources like research kits or equipment in other places besides the buckboards? Probably I'm missing something but I haven't been able to find it.

[capi3101]

46 minutes ago, Jofe said:

Sure, any help is appreciated. I was wondering mostly because it happens with the one that is included in the tutorial. Besides a rover I made for the ksc science contracts (Made of the command cab, the crew cabin, a ground stabilizer, 4 pairs of wheels and some science experiments) I haven't really tried my hand at rover making.

Standard rover design - and this applies for any rover - is to keep the center of mass as low to the ground as you can manage and to make your wheelbase wide. This ensures it will stay relatively stable in most driving conditions. The posts above this one also mention things you can (and should) do in regards to available torque. 

As far as an initial base-seeding kit goes, you might want to look at OSE Workshop Reworked (a mod that has very recently been patched so it works with Pathfinder once again) and/or Extraplanetary Launchpads as complimentary mods if you don't have them already. The first one allows you access to the Pondarosa/Casa Blacksmith module, allowing you to print up new parts on site - including additional base structures). The second one allows you access to Pathfinder's Rangeland launchpad, allowing you to print up whole new craft on site and allowing your base to act as a remote launch site. While OSE was non-functional, I relied on EL to print up the bits I needed for base expansion. Either one of these mods will let you go with a relatively small initial craft to seed a base and then expand it out to greater capabilities later. I suggest a rover for the job in most cases so that if your initial landing site is garbage, you can go look for a better one. Rovers aren't practical in some bodies in the system though (particularly the ones like Pol and Gilly, where the gravity is particularly low) and in those cases you're fine with a Conestoga-based lander instead. You'll want to pack a Blacksmith in your initial base equipment if you go with OSE. With EL, you'll want a Hacienda Ironworks (the default module) as well as a Rangeland in your initial kit. If you use both mods, why not go with all three...?

And nothing says you have to go with either one. I'm just saying that utilizing the ability to build things on site is going to save you a lot of headaches in the "getting all that crap to the site" front. Rocket equation mathematics and all that.

You'll want to have a pair of Hacienda Claimjumpers in your initial kit. Aside from Ore production - which will be important - these allow you to bring up Precious Metals (or Rare Metals in CRP Mode, which is what I've been with since I've first started using Pathfinder) and Minerite (Minerals in CRP Mode). Both of those resources are absolutely critical for base expansion. I would go so far as to suggest you "scout" whatever world on which you're planning to establish a base with a polar-orbiting probe equipped with a narrow-band scanner  before you put boots on the ground, and search for a biome that contains both of these two resources. 

Take three or four Chuckwagons in a kit. They have good Storage capacity for when you're getting your base set up and they'll give you some flexibility. In particular, I like to transfer over the Equipment from my rover to the base once I've got everything else offloaded - this way I can move the rover into a support role once it's done with its delivery job. 

Most of these, incidentally, will fit nicely into a KIS Storage-configured Buckboard or four...

I find a Micro ISRU unit to be a nice addition to a kit, mainly as a means of accessing a portable OmniConverter (i.e. a single part that can be reconfigured to make whatever it is you need it to make). I don't leave Kerbin without one.

IMHO, you'll want to bring along some SAFER reactors. For the amount of power your base will need to do certain things, I've found it's better to rely on nuclear power sources over solar. The SAFERs will give you a leg-up on that and ensure you've got plenty of power while your bases are still in their infancy. Even later on, when you can build Nukeworks (assuming a supply of Uraninite at your base site), the SAFERs will still supply a respectable amount of reliable power, and it'll be a while before they get depleted.  The TBDs carry six. Only downside is that they do take two kerbals to deploy thanks to their mass.

That should do as far as starters are concerned. I may have a pic or two of my TBD rovers on imgur if you need inspiration.
 

46 minutes ago, Jofe said:

While I have the question train rolling. Is there a way to carry resources like research kits or equipment in other places besides the buckboards? Probably I'm missing something but I haven't been able to find it.

Oh yeah - the Buffalo Chassis units can be configured to hold any resource you want. I usually set mine to electrical power so I don't have to haul extra batteries on my rovers, but I've been known to shove Material Kits, Equipment and even monopropellant into them before. There are also the Saddle Tanks; I had a few rovers that utilized them back around v1.5 or so, when for some reason I wasn't actively trying to use the Wagon. Wagon's the best bang for your buck, incidentally. There are also the Tundra units, and of course there is more than one size of Buckboard available, though only the small one is (to my knowledge) capable of being hauled around on a kerbal's back. The small Buckboards, incidentally, are still useful for those resources you might want to have an initial supply of but don't necessarily need all that many of (Material Kits comes to mind - after I've attached that Buckboard to the Pondy and drained it into the Blacksmith, I usually reconfigure it for Minerals storage). 

Edited July 14, 2020 by capi3101

[shdwlrd]

1 hour ago, capi3101 said:

A Wagon full of Equipment works wonders here as a starter payload. Just saying. I typically load up with 8800 units; it's enough to deploy a Pondy, a Casa and three Haciendas with a zero-star engineer with some left over. Take all that with you, make two of those Haciendas Claim Jumpers and the third an Ironworks and you've got a nice setup for expanding the base further (ala what I usually wind up with, a thousand tonne monstrosity).

Nothing (besides Tsiolkovsky) says you can't load the Wagon all the way up though. Maxes out at 12,800 units, IIRC.

These rovers were made for exploration and crew transfers only. Any resources added was just to pull the CoM as low as possible. (I typically use RTGs for power.)

I won't argue about full material transport rovers. They were hard to flip, but God forbid if you actually did. That's a long recovery mission bringing back 3k-12k of resources 200-300 units at a time.

Edited July 14, 2020 by shdwlrd

[Jofe]

1 hour ago, capi3101 said:

Oh yeah - the Buffalo Chassis units can be configured to hold any resource you want. I usually set mine to electrical power so I don't have to haul extra batteries on my rovers, but I've been known to shove Material Kits, Equipment and even monopropellant into them before. There are also the Saddle Tanks; I had a few rovers that utilized them back around v1.5 or so, when for some reason I wasn't actively trying to use the Wagon. Wagon's the best bang for your buck, incidentally. There are also the Tundra units, and of course there is more than one size of Buckboard available, though only the small one is (to my knowledge) capable of being hauled around on a kerbal's back. The small Buckboards, incidentally, are still useful for those resources you might want to have an initial supply of but don't necessarily need all that many of (Material Kits comes to mind - after I've attached that Buckboard to the Pondy and drained it into the Blacksmith, I usually reconfigure it for Minerals storage). 

I was thinking more on adding them to rockets. At first I didn't notice research kits existed and launched a space station. Eventually ran out of those and had to build a delivery rocket out of aircraft cargo holds since those could hold the buckboards. I guess it's possible to to add those to a rocket design, but if there was some sort of tank similar to the fuel ones it would be very nice.

Also the pics would help a lot. I kinda use the basic form as shown in the tutorial one, but if I want to launch it I have to build this monstrosity of a rocket to be able to.

Also I was checking OSE and it seems like it needs ksp 1.10? The problem being that I'm still using 1.9 because there's a lot of mods that still haven't been updated. It's 100% necessary to be in 1.10?

Edited July 14, 2020 by Jofe

[capi3101]

4 hours ago, Jofe said:

I was thinking more on adding them to rockets. At first I didn't notice research kits existed and launched a space station. Eventually ran out of those and had to build a delivery rocket out of aircraft cargo holds since those could hold the buckboards. I guess it's possible to to add those to a rocket design, but if there was some sort of tank similar to the fuel ones it would be very nice.

Try the Conestoga. It fits on a standard 2.5 meter wide stack, IIRC. There's another part called a Mule that does the job too, again IIRC. Finally, you might also want to look at another WBI mod called MOLE; it's a cousin mod to Pathfinder designed more around space stations than ground bases. I use it.

(When you get a little bit more experience with Pathfinder, you might also want to take a look at Pipelines...if you don't think them too cheatsy. They're a major time saver when it comes to re-supply, but the default settings make them less useful on bodies larger than Mun - which is why I cranked mine up an eff-tonne a skosh. They're also the reason why I have an outpost on Kerbin not five klicks from KSC...)

 

4 hours ago, Jofe said:

Also the pics would help a lot. I kinda use the basic form as shown in the tutorial one, but if I want to launch it I have to build this monstrosity of a rocket to be able to.

Okay...let's see what I can find:

This is a TBD 7e rover; this one landed on Eeloo. Two Wagons; the forward one is hauling Equipment while the aft one is set for KIS Storage and has the base structure. Has a crew compartment between the Wagons and the main cab, with the Micro ISRU riding on the roof. Airlock unit in the way back along with a pair of parking brakes and an onboard Buffalo drill. Not that much to the design. My standard exploration rover design - which I've used everywhere except Eve since v0.19 - is in the background.

 

TBD 7d preparing to land on Tylo. Designed the descent stage like an asparagus booster. Thing still ran out of gas before the rover made it to the ground but it survived (though that might have been KJR at work too). 


TBD 7dB "roving" over the surface of Pol. In this case, the craft is a lander with a pair of O-10 engines around the CoM (and those at reduced thrust). Flies like a VTOL. Overdid it with Kerbal Konstructs flattening out the terrain in this pic...
 

A terrible, horrible, no good very bad idea... at least, it's that way if you're not willing to adjust your Pipeline configuration file. The rover made it to the ground; the same can't be said for the wheels. 


I think this was a TBD 7a or 7b? I don't rightly recall; definitely early days. This design used Saddle tanks on the sides to haul the Equipment and had the parts all in Buckboards in the tail. Definitely an earlier design. Height of colonization - using a Mun base to make a new Mun base...

 

Hopefully those will give you some ideas, though I'm guessing they won't much. Let me look some more to see if I actually have one attached to a booster prior to Kerbin launch...

EDIT: Don't have a rover, alas. Do have a Conestoga-based lander in the VAB, though:

Talk about early days...

 

4 hours ago, Jofe said:

Also I was checking OSE and it seems like it needs ksp 1.10? The problem being that I'm still using 1.9 because there's a lot of mods that still haven't been updated. It's 100% necessary to be in 1.10?

I don't really know; I was under the impression that the patch came right before 1.10 dropped, so it might work; anybody who's in the know should field that one. I myself am still in 1.8, though that's largely for lack of time since the quarantine began...

Edited July 15, 2020 by capi3101

[Jofe]

Awesome. Thanks a lot for all the help

Now that I think about it. Is there a way to identify what IHM is what? I'm building a rocket and I keep losing track of which one is which lol.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Jofe

[Alex6141]

Hello, I am experiencing a couple of issues with my current 1.8.1 career save.

I have had issues retraining my tourists into kerbonauts, despite the fact that I am running Pathfinder 1.34.0  I have transferred my tourists to the Castillo module, selected the retrain option, selected a class for my tourists, selected set and then selected okay. The crew portraits will flicker and then my tourists will remain as tourists.  I know that someone else in the forums has had this issue, but I thought it was odd because I am running a version prior to 1.33.4. I have tested this without CommNet enabled, so CommNet shouldn't be a problem.

Additionally, the Castillo Observatory appears to require a crew of 2,000 scientists in order to process data. When I select the Observatory, I receive a message stating "Not enough crew: 1/2000", for example. I can post screenshots as needed tomorrow.

[capi3101]

9 hours ago, Alex6141 said:

Hello, I am experiencing a couple of issues with my current 1.8.1 career save.

I have had issues retraining my tourists into kerbonauts, despite the fact that I am running Pathfinder 1.34.0  I have transferred my tourists to the Castillo module, selected the retrain option, selected a class for my tourists, selected set and then selected okay. The crew portraits will flicker and then my tourists will remain as tourists.  I know that someone else in the forums has had this issue, but I thought it was odd because I am running a version prior to 1.33.4. I have tested this without CommNet enabled, so CommNet shouldn't be a problem.

Additionally, the Castillo Observatory appears to require a crew of 2,000 scientists in order to process data. When I select the Observatory, I receive a message stating "Not enough crew: 1/2000", for example. I can post screenshots as needed tomorrow.

You need to upgrade your Pathfinder version to 1.35.0; that's the version that fixed the issues with retraining kerbals in the Castillo, and it works in 1.8.1 - I am currently running that particular KSP/Pathfinder combo myself since I've been too lazy to upgrade KSP since the quarantine began. I believe it will also take care of the Observatory issues as well, but in truth I haven't checked.

[Alex6141]

43 minutes ago, capi3101 said:

You need to upgrade your Pathfinder version to 1.35.0; that's the version that fixed the issues with retraining kerbals in the Castillo, and it works in 1.8.1 - I am currently running that particular KSP/Pathfinder combo myself since I've been too lazy to upgrade KSP since the quarantine began. I believe it will also take care of the Observatory issues as well, but in truth I haven't checked.

Just tested out 1.35.0 and, while the game loaded fine, I'm still having issues with both the observatory and the retraining.

However, the lighting issues that others have reported on the Castillo modules is now fixed!

[capi3101]

1 hour ago, Alex6141 said:

Just tested out 1.35.0 and, while the game loaded fine, I'm still having issues with both the observatory and the retraining.

However, the lighting issues that others have reported on the Castillo modules is now fixed!

Hmm...1.8.1/1.35.0 is correct. Troubleshoot it, then - what's your base's overall productivity rating?

[Jofe]

I was going to be like "Oh hey, OSE Workshop works even if it's the wrong ksp version" but nope. As soon as I try to launch a rocket with any IHM ksc disappears lol. 

[usmc3891]

It seems that Pathfinder overwrites OSE to use Equipment instead of Material Kits. Was this intentional and is there any way of changing it back on my end? Its not game breaking by any means but it makes using parts from other mods difficult. I'm loving Pathfinder by the way :-)

[Angelo Kerman]

2 hours ago, usmc3891 said:

It seems that Pathfinder overwrites OSE to use Equipment instead of Material Kits. Was this intentional and is there any way of changing it back on my end? Its not game breaking by any means but it makes using parts from other mods difficult. I'm loving Pathfinder by the way :-)

Should be a module manager patch but I don’t remember rights offhand which one.

[capi3101]

9 hours ago, usmc3891 said:

It seems that Pathfinder overwrites OSE to use Equipment instead of Material Kits.

In which regard? Equipment is generally used to inflate new structures, while Material Kits are still utilized by the Blacksmith and Clockworks modules to print up new stuff. At least that's the way things should be working.

[usmc3891]

7 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Should be a module manager patch but I don’t remember rights offhand which one.

I'll take a look around the files again tonight but I couldn't find anything on it but then again, I don't really know a whole lot about what I'm looking at.

11 minutes ago, capi3101 said:

In which regard? Equipment is generally used to inflate new structures, while Material Kits are still utilized by the Blacksmith and Clockworks modules to print up new stuff. At least that's the way things should be working.

Instead of Material Kits OSE, Pathfinder, and Modular base mod are using equipment to manufacture parts. When I completely removed anything having to do with pathfinder it reverted back to material kits.

[usmc3891]

I was finally able to fix it. It was a MM Patch nested deeply in 000WildBlueTools. It's MM_OSEWorkshop. I don't know why it didn't come up in the searches. I tested it in 2 different playmodes and its working perfectly :)

[Foefue]

Hey when I press Mod P for some reason I dont get the setting area where you can turn off needing resources for your bases, why is this happening? Like all im getting is other settings for my other mods

[Foefue]

Nevermind but the button was Mod B but it says the settings are TBD, what does that mean?

[Firedon]

How do you disable the equipment cost for the inflatable bases? I want to assemble the launch pad and ground station without hooking it up to anything.

 

thank you

[Angelo Kerman]

26 minutes ago, Firedon said:

How do you disable the equipment cost for the inflatable bases? I want to assemble the launch pad and ground station without hooking it up to anything.

 

thank you

Go to the Settings window in KSP (press ESC to do that), find the Pathfinder tab. There's an option to disable the equipment costs.