Boeing has patented futuristic laser fusion engine

[PB666]

http://techxplore.com/news/2015-07-boeing-patent-focus-laser-powered-propulsion.html

rather than repeat someelses thoughts

Sebastian Anthony on Saturday commented in Ars Technica: "It sounds completely crazyâ€â€and it is completely unrealistic given our current mastery of fusion, or lack thereofâ€â€but, in the future perhaps, this could be a rather ingenious solution."-http://techxplore.com/news/2015-07-boeing-patent-focus-laser-powered-propulsion.html

Actually no, it would never be approved, but if you had a double walled housing and the uranium was sunk between a neutron slowing material and a neutron aborbing material you could circulate heat created from the reactor back into heating gas.

This is not what boeing has done, what they are attempting to do is to block other patents of the type by coming up with a one size fits all laser x-nuclear atmosphere or space engine.

In theory it works because prompt criticality is removed from the equation, the lasre energize the fusion target producing and amount of neutrons some of which cause fissionable material to crack. There are not enough density of the fissile material to sustain its own reaction. The problem is its an emvironmental nightmare, streaming neutrons, radioactive plutonium, strontium....

[xenomorph555]

It's just a patent troll, please don't take it seriously. Also please don't make threads on future patent trolls.

[PB666]

Someone might propose this someday in this group, at which point you can say 'ben dare done dat'.

[Godot]

Well, the actual research of fusion via shooting pallets with laserbeams isn´t new:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion

the only new thing in the patent seems to be its proposed use for propulsion purposes

[magnemoe]

It's just a patent troll, please don't take it seriously. Also please don't make threads on future patent trolls.

Idea is old, was an starship studdy back in the 60 or seventies using this. I honestly don't see how they can patent it without an working model.

Z-pinch has an working prototype for an fusion drive, they mainly use an magnetic field. No its not able to go break even but don't need it for an rocket engine, you can get power from solar cells or an reactor and use it to run it, the fusion reaction give many times better ISP and trust for each kw than an pure electrical drive like vasmir.

[PB666]

i dont think they, Boeing, have a working fusion reactor in any form. It looks as if to be a bit of territory staking, like 'we had this idea here and despite its appernet non-utility, if someone trued to build somethig' like they could use thapatent the could enforce their patent rights in a small courthouse in East texas.

[SciMan]

All I gotta say about this is "Sorry Boeing, 'Prior Art' exists." In other words, this "patent" is a paper tiger.

IANAL, but this is my understanding of relevant part of the patent system's limitations on what can be patented:

Basically, if the idea has been documented before (even if it wasn't patented at that time), attempting to patent that idea SHOULD get that patent rejected.

If it doesn't get the patent rejected, documentation of the idea that can be proven to have existed before the patent, can be used to invalidate the patent.

This is called Prior Art.

There have been several college-backed and NASA-backed studies about using a laser-initiated inertial confinement fusion reaction for propulsion purposes.

If those studies don't detail the reactor geometry but the Boeing patent DOES, it might be valid. If the Boeing patent is using extremely vague language (like I think it is), then it's a paper tiger, and as such is nothing more than a vehicle for FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt). In other words, "Don't try this, or we'll sic our big scary legal team on you even tho we know we'll lose the resulting trial". It's scare tactics, nothing more, nothing less.

It's a shame that some companies seem to feel the need to impede progress unless they're the ones doing the research. Seems very "If I can't have it, NOBODY can" of them.

Besides, the patents are effectively useless. Who's going to build a fusion rocket within our lifetimes (or the time before the patent expires) anyways? Nobody.

Fission-driven rockets are probably the most advanced propulsion we'll get before I die (~2050-2085ish, I'm 27 now).

Mars colonization will be getting into full swing by then if Elon Musk has his way, and I like that a lot, but the need for a spacecraft powered by a fusion rocket is very far off indeed, even if we could build one tomorrow (and we can't). That's only required if you want to get to Jupiter or Saturn within a reasonable (few months) time frame.

In conclusion:

As many others have said, this is a patent troll. As I have said, it's a particularly poorly executed patent troll, as not only does the patent in question have exactly ZERO applications for the time it's in effect, it's also void as written due to the widely-available existence of prior art.

Edited October 24, 2015 by SciMan

[SargeRho]

Sure about the Fusion engine part, SciMan? Last I checked, the major components of the Magneto-Inertial Fusion Driven Rocket have already been tested, on their own. And if I'm not mistaken, we could build a Z-Pinch Fusion Rocket right about now. Neither of these would produce any power, but they don't really have to, either.

On topic:

How about using these fusion-jet engines on gas-giant mining SSTO space planes, or SSTO space planes that collect Helium 3 and Deuterium from floating mining stations? This is far, far off in the future of course.

[SciMan]

That "far, far off in the future" part is one of the reasons this patent is stupid. Nobody's going to attempt to build one until we need one, even if we CAN build one.

And we won't need one until we start needing to have huge payloads get out to Jupiter or further within a few months of launch, which isn't going to happen until I'm long dead. And I'm 27.

By the time that happens, the patent will have expired.

Most of the reason I think we can't build one is that it can't get funded until it's needed, not that it's not possible for us to build one.

As for using them on stuff that mines gas giants, that would work well enough, and would be able to run on the waste Hydrogen the scoops pick up. Not sure if that would result in burning up all the fusion fuel it just mined or not, tho. Either way, I think a spaceplane is a poor choice for that. Highly unmanageable heat loads, and that's without trying to sort and liquefy He3 or Deuterium. He3 is incredibly hard to keep liquid, and Deuterium isn't much easier. (both sub-30K)

Edited October 24, 2015 by SciMan

[Neil1993]

They might be the first to patent this (in a patent-troll-ey manner) but Lockheed Martin has already been on the fusion hype train for a bit.

Just check out what they have on their website. Whether or not it will be feasible, the amount of nice graphics and actual hardware indicates that they're at least making an effort.

[Ruedii]

Obviously not for in-atmosphere use.