Lovejoy (comet) is sauced

[PB666]

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/1/9/e1500863

Oh well sweet and alcohol.

[Scotius]

So basically comets are lumps of alcohol-flavoured ice cream?

[PB666]

need to have fat to have ice cream.........frozen margarita without the lime juice.

[K^2]

Sugar and alcohol? Is it fermenting?

[PB666]

if you have alcohol all you need is a oxidant. i bet the [conc] is very low.

[Scotius]

*licks a comet passing the perihelium* Hey! It tastes like caramel

[Yukon0009]

So, this is the origin of Minmus?

[Kerbart]

If that doesn't convince the taxpayer we should explore space, I don't know what does.

[lajoswinkler]

So, among 21 molecules detected, ethanol and 2-hydroxyacetaldehyde were detected, for the first time in comets.

It's not really a sugar (chemically speaking) but it's related to sugars.

The paper says:

The abundances of ethanol and glycolaldehyde, respectively 5 and 0.8% relative to methanol (0.12 and 0.02% relative to water), are somewhat higher than the values measured in solar-type protostars.

There's probably an usual amount of methanol there, which is probably quite low. I mean, abundance of 2-hydroxyacetaldeyde is 0.02% relative to water, and comets generally have equal amounts of rock and ice, which is around 80% water.

As usual, this cometary material would probably smell weird and be poisonous.

[PB666]

So, among 21 molecules detected, ethanol and 2-hydroxyacetaldehyde were detected, for the first time in comets.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Glycolaldehyde.png/120px-Glycolaldehyde.png

It's not really a sugar (chemically speaking) but it's related to sugars.

The paper says:

The abundances of ethanol and glycolaldehyde, respectively 5 and 0.8% relative to methanol (0.12 and 0.02% relative to water), are somewhat higher than the values measured in solar-type protostars.

There's probably an usual amount of methanol there, which is probably quite low. I mean, abundance of 2-hydroxyacetaldeyde is 0.02% relative to water, and comets generally have equal amounts of rock and ice, which is around 80% water.

As usual, this cometary material would probably smell weird and be poisonous.

uh . . . . . . Vodka smells weird and is poisonous. (methanol is poisonous, really)

[Scotius]

Hmmm. Looks like there is a considerable amount of organic stuff still circling out there. Which means that Earth came off the planetogenesis assembly line well stoked with life-building blocks from the get go. Which might mean that other rocky planets, ice moons and similiar extrasolar bodies did too. It bodes well for our chances of finding life beyond the Earth.

[lajoswinkler]

Well yeah, Earth had it all from the begining. I really don't understand the sentiments saying Earth was a clean slate, a reactor vessel in which comets and asteroids dumped the ingredients. Earth was made from the same materials but just grew bigger.

[Scotius]

Well yeah, Earth had it all from the begining. I really don't understand the sentiments saying Earth was a clean slate, a reactor vessel in which comets and asteroids dumped the ingredients. Earth was made from the same materials but just grew bigger.

We still know so little about beginnings on life it's frustrating. No matter how we look at Earth, it is an unique body in our Solar system - practically tailor-made for carbon based, water drinking organisms. About right size and density. Dense atmosphere. Lots of water in all states. Not too cold, not too hot. And that freakishly big moon stirring the atmosphere and hydrosphere - while simultaneously stabilising the Earth's axis. No other planet or the moon in the system has it all. Did life appeared because of those factors, or despite them? Are we a norm, or a fluke?

Come on, Science! Inquiring minds want to know - find us aliens already.

[J.Random]

We still know so little about beginnings on life it's frustrating. No matter how we look at Earth, it is an unique body in our Solar system - practically tailor-made for carbon based, water drinking organisms. About right size and density. Dense atmosphere. Lots of water in all states. Not too cold, not too hot. And that freakishly big moon stirring the atmosphere and hydrosphere - while simultaneously stabilising the Earth's axis. No other planet or the moon in the system has it all. Did life appeared because of those factors, or despite them? Are we a norm, or a fluke?

Come on, Science! Inquiring minds want to know - find us aliens already.

And anthropic principle claims yet another victim.

It's not tailor-made for anything. It's just things which have evolved on it are extremely egocentric.

[YNM]

We still know so little about beginnings on life it's frustrating. No matter how we look at Earth, it is an unique body in our Solar system - practically tailor-made for carbon based, water drinking organisms. About right size and density. Dense atmosphere. Lots of water in all states. Not too cold, not too hot. And that freakishly big moon stirring the atmosphere and hydrosphere - while simultaneously stabilising the Earth's axis. No other planet or the moon in the system has it all. Did life appeared because of those factors, or despite them? Are we a norm, or a fluke?

Come on, Science! Inquiring minds want to know - find us aliens already.

And anthropic principle claims yet another victim.

It's not tailor-made for anything. It's just things which have evolved on it are extremely egocentric.

Stop moaning, start observing ! How's a cometary brewery ? Anyone ?

A bit more into principles : I'm rather taking the homogeneous, isotropic principle : either we're this really weird glitch in the whole universe to the unknown, or maybe the glitches are everywhere. Which means...

[Scotius]

Oh, believe me - i know what anthropocentis is, and how it can cloud our judgement. But it is exactly the point: we fall in this trap, because we don't have any other point of reference. Until we find a trace of life outside the Earth, only then we will know if our carbon\water constitution is the only possible or not. (I did not mention oxygen, because we know already, that at least that is not a strict requirement for a living organism.) Or is only Earth-like environment hospitable for life. Until then, well...anthropocentrism it is - because we don't have anything else.

[PB666]

Well yeah, Earth had it all from the begining. I really don't understand the sentiments saying Earth was a clean slate, a reactor vessel in which comets and asteroids dumped the ingredients. Earth was made from the same materials but just grew bigger.

Well lets go through this. In the beggining sort of

The sun is made of atoms lots of atoms mostly hydrogen in that beggining most of the heavy stuff sorts to the center and hydrogen to the exterior, like Jupiter, but then the sun fires, poof and this is produces a much higher intensity of light, and specifically blue and ultraviolet light

So if you are a carbon atom lofting around you are going to be, basically ionized :C:, carbon gas. Next solar winds blows by with what H: and H+ so you form mainly CH4. But there is also running around so sometimes you form CH3O and this binds an H to form methanol. Sometimes you form H3CCOH, ethanol, sometimes HOH2CCOH, sugar. All a sugar is an aldehyde or ketone at any carbon and hydroxyl groups at all other carbons.

So the bottom line here is that if you ionize alot of space dust, then allow molecularization, molecules form

So then the next question, the earth accretes, does this ionize space dust, sure it does. Your deep fat fryer or food in you oven begins to brown at 425'F (218) C. That browning you see on your cookies, that is ionization, visible, many bonds ionize at much lower temperatures, most break by about 400'C. So did molecules on earth ionize, they most certainly did. In addition the surface is virtually unprotected from the suns radiation for a long period as gas/liquid/solid separation occurs.

So the overwhelming majority of molecules in space were destroyed. And consider this, what is the most numerous atom on earth, iron, many of those carbons where originally tied up in iron molecules and other metals. This chemistry and the separation of these elements in our earth may have triggered life. But now there is almost no carbon tied up with iron, it has all moved toward the surface, along with the oxygen that and nitrogen.

So yes they existed in space

yes they could form in space

yes they could form on earth

most probably formed on earth, some were dropped in later, but the energy that drives life is probably from the chemistry going on inside the earth, surface chemistry prolly comes later.

but the space derived molecules might have stimulated the formation of life by providing resources, such as heated metal-carbon-oxygen compounds, that are not stable as they move toward the surface.

which is why questioning when life arose is a very important question, timing is everything.

Edited October 24, 2015 by PB666

[vger]

Well, now we have another excuse to get corporations up there right? SPACE BOOZE!

[Scotius]

Yeah Just spread the word about lakes of rotgut free for the taking out there.

[RainDreamer]

I wanted to make a joke about Space Bar on one of these comets, but sleep deprivation is wrecking me, so someone else do it.

[K^2]

Well yeah, Earth had it all from the begining. I really don't understand the sentiments saying Earth was a clean slate, a reactor vessel in which comets and asteroids dumped the ingredients. Earth was made from the same materials but just grew bigger.

Most of these molecules decompose under extreme heat of planetary formation. You have to wait for planet's surface to cool down before complex organic molecules can be formed or deposited.

[Vanamonde]

Stick to the chemistry, guys. The use of intoxicants is considered "adult content," and is off-limits for this forum (2.2.c).

[YNM]

Stick to the chemistry, guys. The use of intoxicants is considered "adult content," and is off-limits for this forum (2.2.c).

Why not ? Chemistry is also about the good stuff... (ofc not just liquor or intoxicants).

Along that, could there be ester ? Maybe space smells good actually ? Also, how do they know what kind of molecules they're looking at ? NMR ? Or usual spectrum at radio wavelengths ?

[PB666]

Why not ? Chemistry is also about the good stuff... (ofc not just liquor or intoxicants).

Along that, could there be ester ? Maybe space smells good actually ? Also, how do they know what kind of molecules they're looking at ? NMR ? Or usual spectrum at radio wavelengths ?

He's refering to a couple posts that were promoting alcohol use either directly or as a political motivator.

[RainDreamer]

I wonder if we can set those up on fire. What can be used as oxidant though? Can they burn by themselves?