Is the human race is genetically programmed a willingness to conquest of space?

[Pawelk198604]

I say quite seriously.

It's just my subjective impression, but I would like to share them

Perhaps the conquest of space is genetically programmed into us, just as the desire to eat, drink, survival and pardon '... drive'

The earliest cave paintings depict stars, perhaps the desire to follow in the direction of stars, zoastała implemented in us by God or some other highly advanced. entity

[PB666]

I say quite seriously.

It's just my subjective impression, but I would like to share them

Perhaps the conquest of space is genetically programmed into us, just as the desire to eat, drink, survival and pardon '... drive'

The earliest cave paintings depict stars, perhaps the desire to follow in the direction of stars, zoastała implemented in us by God or some other highly advanced. entity

I think the big desire comes from WWII becasuse the Germans had all this great technology and conquested so quickly, the philosophy became he who controls the heavens so controls the world. As a consequence the US was rather humiliated by sputnik, and so we man-on-the-mooned the soviets. But the reality is not to have men in space, the control issue is about knowledge. The two superpowers want to see what the other guys are doing 24/7 and they want to see it in all wavelengths and as deep underground as possible. The other stuff is to keep the public on board. Turn JWST around and put it in geo and you can tell when [public enemy #1] walks his poodle.

[Bill Phil]

Humans have a desire, even a need, to exploit resources. Exploration is a means to that end. We don't naturally want to explore, we want to exploit. In space, there's enough resources for trillions of humans in this solar system alone.

[GeneralVeers]

It's not the conquest of space, specifically. Humans have a genetically-encoded desire to control their own destinies. Probably all intelligent species on Earth have this same desire--it's just that human beings are the only species that can act on it.

Many of the seemingly-irrational decisions people make can be attributed to their desire for control over their surroundings--or, if actual control cannot be had, the illusion of control. People like to drive the car rather than be a passenger. People are scared of flying in 747's because someone else is in the cockpit of the plane. People hate politicians because a politician is, essentially, somebody else writing your destiny for you. When dumped by spouses/girlfriends, there's the occasional tendency to kill the dumper; even if the act lands the dumpee in prison for life, they feel better about it because they didn't allow somebody else to alter their life path.

And, in particular, when confronted by one crisis or another, almost everybody will feel an overpowering urge to "do SOMETHING!!!", even if the "something" that is actually done merely makes things worse.

Control over space is merely one more means of controlling things down here on Earth. Most people don't seem to have much interest in space exploration these days; I'm trying to remember who it was who said: "People are more excited by the discovery of a new food than by the discovery of a new star".

[PB666]

Humans have a desire, even a need, to exploit resources. Exploration is a means to that end. We don't naturally want to explore, we want to exploit. In space, there's enough resources for trillions of humans in this solar system alone.

You point to earthly anyplace and that place has more resources relative to the risk relative to space. The only resource space has in abundance is space, but OTOH if you ultimate goal is risk aversion then space is a resource because it is not earthly. Space also demonstrates humans have reached a certain level of social maturation. You can examine any society on earth, for the most part none are prepared to make the commitment to society to permit longterm survival in space. When indeed we are ready to colonize, the notion of conquering will not be the primary motivation.

[Bill Phil]

You point to earthly anyplace and that place has more resources relative to the risk relative to space. The only resource space has in abundance is space, but OTOH if you ultimate goal is risk aversion then space is a resource because it is not earthly. Space also demonstrates humans have reached a certain level of social maturation. You can examine any society on earth, for the most part none are prepared to make the commitment to society to permit longterm survival in space. When indeed we are ready to colonize, the notion of conquering will not be the primary motivation.

The amount of water in the Galilean moons surpasses all of that on Earth. And then there are thousands of small bodies that have volatiles, which are extremely valuable to life. Then there's the metals in the belt, which can be used to build in space habitats, like Oneill cylinders.

More resources than all of Earth's available resources.

[Rath]

Titan has OCEANS OF NATURAL GAS. When we run out, I hope space is very cheap so we can try to convince the oil conservatives to like space. Not likly, because of the significant overlap with the "MOON LANDINGS FAKE FAKEYNESS IMPERVIOUS TO TRUTH Duur...." demographic but we can try

[NuclearNut]

Titan has OCEANS OF NATURAL GAS. When we run out, I hope space is very cheap so we can try to convince the oil conservatives to like space. Not likly, because of the significant overlap with the "MOON LANDINGS FAKE FAKEYNESS IMPERVIOUS TO TRUTH Duur...." demographic but we can try

Which is all but worthless to exploit because it would require more energy than you get out of it. Politics or not, there is little reason to go into space other than for rare metals, and those are easier to extract from earth than there.

If only we had a power source millions of times more compact than oil and that could be used at all times...

[Nibb31]

Humanity is much more diverse than you think. Most humans live in countries that don't have a space program. Many of them have never heard of rockets and the vast majority of humanity doesn't even care. They care more about the wellbeing of their families, living in peace, access to education, and so on...

People who are preoccupied by space exploration are a tiny minority of the populations of a tiny minority of countries. It's very far from being a universal value shared by all humanity.

[sojourner]

Yes. when the aliens created us, they programmed this desire in. To make us better servants.

[Darnok]

Every living thing has same needs and its trying to survive, for single cell bacteria survive means to multiply, for animals its also multiply, for should be same... we should multiply and search new lands to expand our civilization.

[PB666]

The amount of water in the Galilean moons surpasses all of that on Earth. And then there are thousands of small bodies that have volatiles, which are extremely valuable to life. Then there's the metals in the belt, which can be used to build in space habitats, like Oneill cylinders.

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More resources than all of Earth's available resources.

The earth is covered with an average of 2 kilometers of water, we are in no short supply of water on earth. If you making the argument that water is a valuable resource for colonizing space I wouldnt waste a second on galilean moons. Given the abudance of comets/asteroids. Exploitation of space for resources that are more abundant on earth is dumb, expensive, and risky. All the methane gas in the outer solar system is of no importance here on earth, methane is not even good rocket fuel, it has the lowest density when liquified of any organic compound and is the hardest to compress. Exploitation of material resources from space makes no sense unless those resources are utilized in space.

Sorry you are wrong minded on this. All those rocks on the moon, mars nothing special there. No precious metal. The water on mars would need to be heated and chemically separated from the high levels of salt, which may also be true in other parts of the solar system. Even sea water is more useful than space brine its only 3.5% w/v. If you can name one known place in our solar system wher a particular valuble molecule is found more abundant than a good reserve here on earth i will correct this.

Maybe helium, but that can be harvested from the space near earth.

This is the backdrop of why the Mars manned mission is premature. From basically useless rock, frozen liquids and brine the colonist will have to devise ways of extracting the resources they nedd to survive, its an occupation so expensive it would be foolish to think about exporating materials backnto earth.

[KSK]

Humanity is much more diverse than you think. Most humans live in countries that don't have a space program. Many of them have never heard of rockets and the vast majority of humanity doesn't even care. They care more about the wellbeing of their families, living in peace, access to education, and so on...

And in all too many cases, about access to clean water, sufficient food and basic sanitation. This isn't a reason to stop space exploration of course - I firmly believe we can do that and also attend to the needs and aspirations of everyone back on Earth. It would just require a rethinking of priorities which we, as a species, seem unwilling to make. But that's politics and so likely to get this thread locked.

People who are preoccupied by space exploration are a tiny minority of the populations of a tiny minority of countries. It's very far from being a universal value shared by all humanity.

Agreed. In my opinion, the answer to OP's question is a resounding 'no'.

[PB666]

And in all too many cases, about access to clean water, sufficient food and basic sanitation. This isn't a reason to stop space exploration of course - I firmly believe we can do that and also attend to the needs and aspirations of everyone back on Earth. It would just require a rethinking of priorities which we, as a species, seem unwilling to make. But that's politics and so likely to get this thread locked.

Agreed. In my opinion, the answer to OP's question is a resounding 'no'.

Technological development and education of the masses go hand in hand. Funneling a nations poor into targeted education programs which has high end goals like space exploration or development of science cities is about the best way to get information in the hands of the masses. I keep reminding everyone that the multiplier effect to the economy for science and technology almost always pays for the initial government expenditure.

[Nibb31]

Technological development and education of the masses go hand in hand. Funneling a nations poor into targeted education programs which has high end goals like space exploration or development of science cities is about the best way to get information in the hands of the masses. I keep reminding everyone that the multiplier effect to the economy for science and technology almost always pays for the initial government expenditure.

There are plenty of cultures and civilizations that have different end goals than developing science and the economy. Ask an Iranian, an Indian, a Yanomami, a Somalian or even a person in your street what they think the purpose of Humanity is. I doubt that any single person will say "to expand throughout the solar system". Some cultures are more interested in spirituality, religion, family, living in harmony with their environment, or other political goals. Our western cultures are only a minor part of Humanity. It's extremely shortsighted to extrapolate your own values into universal values that "unite Humanity" because Humanity is much more diverse than that.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Nibb31

[KSK]

Technological development and education of the masses go hand in hand. Funneling a nations poor into targeted education programs which has high end goals like space exploration or development of science cities is about the best way to get information in the hands of the masses. I keep reminding everyone that the multiplier effect to the economy for science and technology almost always pays for the initial government expenditure.

I disagree about the 'targeted' part of that. General education and access to information sure - that's one of the most powerful tools for lifting people out of poverty. Targeted education programs are much less useful unless they are at least somewhat in synch with overall economic development. Otherwise you end up with a bunch of people trained up to meet whatever the officially mandated target is - and leave them nowhere to go since your economy has no need for that many people with those skills. Heck we see that in the Western world - we churn out science and engineering graduates by the class load - how many of them actually go on to a career in science or engineering - particularly in academia?

Net result, brain drain to those countries which can offer opportunities to your new highly skilled workers and you've just spent a fortune subsidising somebody else's labour market.

Then there's what Nibb31 said, which I also agree with and have a lot of sympathy for. Besides, for all the good things that science and technology do, in many other ways they don't change anything. Most of us still work long hours for corporate masters that can and do cheerfully throw us under the bus in the name of the bottom line. Technically it aint slavery - we're not indentured to those companies after all, but as a practical matter its not so very different. Above a certain level technology hasn't improved our quality of life - but it sure gives us a lot of shiny new toys to distract us from that and a whole bunch of new worries to go with them.

[magnemoe]

There are plenty of cultures and civilizations that have different end goals than developing science and the economy. Ask an Iranian, an Indian, a Yanomami, a Somalian or even a person in your street what they think the purpose of Humanity is. I doubt that any single person will say "to expand throughout the solar system". Some cultures are more interested in spirituality, religion, family, living in harmony with their environment, or other political goals. Our western cultures are only a minor part of Humanity. It's extremely shortsighted to extrapolate your own values into universal values that "unite Humanity" because Humanity is much more diverse than that.

Well some goals has more success than others, its an reason why they migrated here after all.

You can also look at the huge similarities with the success stories in Asia, an focus on expanding science and economy works much better than anything else after the invention of the steam engine.

Everything else will make you fall behind more and more.

The only other way is to have lots of natural resources however this only last as long as the resources.

[HoloYolo]

No. 30,000 years ago, we thought the sky was full of fire and that it turned black based on when it wanted to. 1,000 years ago, we thought God turned the Earth, and the Sun orbited the Earth, and the Earth was flat, and the edge was when things stopped existing. 50 years ago, we knew the previous stuff was fake, but we didn't know what was up there. Humans only got the desire for space exploration from WW2, thanks to the Nazis and Von Braun.

[Bill Phil]

The earth is covered with an average of 2 kilometers of water, we are in no short supply of water on earth. If you making the argument that water is a valuable resource for colonizing space I wouldnt waste a second on galilean moons. Given the abudance of comets/asteroids. Exploitation of space for resources that are more abundant on earth is dumb, expensive, and risky. All the methane gas in the outer solar system is of no importance here on earth, methane is not even good rocket fuel, it has the lowest density when liquified of any organic compound and is the hardest to compress. Exploitation of material resources from space makes no sense unless those resources are utilized in space.

Sorry you are wrong minded on this. All those rocks on the moon, mars nothing special there. No precious metal. The water on mars would need to be heated and chemically separated from the high levels of salt, which may also be true in other parts of the solar system. Even sea water is more useful than space brine its only 3.5% w/v. If you can name one known place in our solar system wher a particular valuble molecule is found more abundant than a good reserve here on earth i will correct this.

Maybe helium, but that can be harvested from the space near earth.

This is the backdrop of why the Mars manned mission is premature. From basically useless rock, frozen liquids and brine the colonist will have to devise ways of extracting the resources they nedd to survive, its an occupation so expensive it would be foolish to think about exporating materials backnto earth.

I think you don't understand what I'm talking about...

Given the sheer scale of space, there's more resources there. No one location has more of any particular thing (for the most part). Rather, all of space has more, and much of it is easier to get to than on Earth, once in space.

Idk how you got methane....

The asteroid belt has more available metals than the Earth's surface down to many kilometers. Much of it is actually get-able, as opposed to a large number being trapped in the core here on Earth.

And precious metals aren't 100% the best. Iron is pretty common, and so are other regular metals. Many of which would be useful in any structure in space.

It's truly a shame that most people don't realize the sheer enormity of the resources in space. The Moon, Mars, and other celestial bodies have little to be proud of, but they have plenty of resources that can be used just for building.

In space, very little is useless.

Btw, 2km salt water is basically useless to us without energy to distill it.

[GeneralVeers]

Besides, for all the good things that science and technology do, in many other ways they don't change anything. Most of us still work long hours for corporate masters that can and do cheerfully throw us under the bus in the name of the bottom line. Technically it aint slavery - we're not indentured to those companies after all, but as a practical matter its not so very different.

Worlds of difference. A thousand years ago, people who did what you're doing--i.e. people who complained about how the leadership was running things......well, they tended to disappear for six months to a year, and then reappear again, standing on a wooden scaffold, next to a guy in a black hood holding an axe, or with a noose around their necks, or on some occasions tied to a post with a bonfire at their feet.

So, disagree. Things have changed gigantically. Which leads me to:

Given the sheer scale of space, there's more resources there. No one location has more of any particular thing (for the most part). Rather, all of space has more, and much of it is easier to get to than on Earth, once in space.

Here's a resource everybody else in this thread has forgotten so far.

What does space have more of? SPACE.

Just as a few centuries ago, as was done by the people who would eventually create the United States of America: if somebody's bothering you, simply pack up and move somewhere else. And outer space has lots of places to go to find a little peace and quiet.

[peadar1987]

Humans have a desire to explore, and that is genetically programmed into us by evolution. Our ancestors who didn't explore and spread out didn't reproduce (or at least, not as successfully), so we are left with the genes for exploration and curiosity. Space is just one part of that.

Whoever says our interest in space only started with the Nazis is way off the mark. Jules Verne and H.G. Wells were both incredibly popular and captured the public imagination. Heck, there's even this

[Nibb31]

What does space have more of? SPACE.

"Space" is not a destination where anyone actually wants to be. It's a medium that you have to cross to get to a proper destination, like an ocean or the sky.

Just as a few centuries ago, as was done by the people who would eventually create the United States of America: if somebody's bothering you, simply pack up and move somewhere else. And outer space has lots of places to go to find a little peace and quiet.

People didn't leave Europe for peace and quiet. They left for a better life, where they could bring up their children in a safer, more confortable, and possibly wealthier environment. There is no safety, no comfort, and no wealth in space, quite the opposite.

Humans have a desire to explore, and that is genetically programmed into us by evolution. Our ancestors who didn't explore and spread out didn't reproduce (or at least, not as successfully), so we are left with the genes for exploration and curiosity. Space is just one part of that.

I think you are overgeneralizing here. What proportion of the human population are actual explorers? A vast majority humans have never left the area where they were born. Those who travel and explore are a minority. The urge to explore is a trait of character that you find in some people, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that we are genetically programmed to do it.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Nibb31

[peadar1987]

I think you are overgeneralizing here. What proportion of the human population are actual explorers? A vast majority humans have never left the area where they were born. Those who travel and explore are a minority. The urge to explore is a trait of character that you find in some people, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that we are genetically programmed to do it.

While most humans never actually explore, the interest and desire is still there. How much of our media and popular culture is based around people going on adventures?

[RainDreamer]

I am often sceptical about any claim that generalise human as a whole, because save for basic biological functions, human behaviour is very, very complex and differ between each person.

[GeneralVeers]

"Space" is not a destination where anyone actually wants to be. It's a medium that you have to cross to get to a proper destination, like an ocean or the sky.

Cue the words "road trip". Cue famous KSP player Kurtjmac, who in his "Far Lands or Bust" YouTube show says fairly often: "it's not about the destination, it's about the journey".

So, disagree. Space is the ultimate road trip.

People didn't leave Europe for peace and quiet.

Yes they did. Religious persecution was one of their primary motivations for leaving.

I was going to do a joke here about how they actually left Europe to get away from nitpickers (snicker) but I think I'll skip that one.....