The Wheesley is really wheezing

[selfish_meme]

So I was going over some old craft (imported into new install) (unmodded and modded) and noticed my VTOL didn't work anymore. Anyway was playing around and noticed the Wheesleys throwing sparks like they have no fuel or air. After a bit of investigating it seems they are intake air deprived despite having what was sufficient intake previously. Tried lots of different intakes, same problem. Built a test rig. Two circular intakes cannot feed two Wheesleys and only one Wheesley up to 80%. It doesn't improve if you add more intakes, that's about max output currently for a Wheesley. Pics below first one engine and then the other, and Reddit thread where someone else noticed it here.

Edited November 14, 2015 by selfish_meme

[selfish_meme]

I am on 1028 can anyone else reproduce it?

[selfish_meme]

I checked to see if it was the old intake symmetry bug, but it seems to be simply a case of the Wheesley drawing too much intake air so much that one engine starves another, even with a circular intake and two structural intakes. I also thought it might be related to two intakes on one fuselage but no.

Intakes on one fuselage, one engine flamed out

Intakes on both fuselages, one engine flamed out

Each engine has a circular intake and two structural intakes, one engine flamed out (always seems to be last engine placed)

Done without any symmetry

- - - Updated - - -

Tested with all other jets, only affects Wheesleys

[skepticon]

Have you tested them with the craft moving? I encountered similar problems to what you describe, but only stopped or at very low craft speeds. Once I was moving, the intakes generated sufficient air to feed the engines.

[selfish_meme]

Thats a possibility I had not considered, mainly because it did not affect any of the other engines. I wanted to use the Wheesleys for VTOL, which is why I am static testing.

[Azimech]

I'm not at home so don't know if 1028 is the patched version. I did encounter the same problem when testing my yacht in the unpatched 1.0.5. I eventually had to use 2.5 intakes per wheesley but that provided me with the correct amount of air.

[sal_vager]

Also different intakes have different static "suck", so if you're making a VTOL you will want the nacelles or precoolers, as they draw the most air.

But as skepticon says it helps to be moving, air is now calculated by intake area, speed, direction (less air at an angle to the flow) and pressure.

[selfish_meme]

Also different intakes have different static "suck", so if you're making a VTOL you will want the nacelles or precoolers, as they draw the most air.

But as skepticon says it helps to be moving, air is now calculated by intake area, speed, direction (less air at an angle to the flow) and pressure.

That sounds reasonable except this only affects the wheesleys.

[sal_vager]

Sorry if this sounds bad but if you check the intake air requirement of the Wheesley you'll see it takes a max of 29.601 per second, and its description says it's a high bypass turbofan so it needs a lot of air in to chuck out the back end.

Lets compare that intake air requirement to the other jets...

Juno, 1.402 per second.

Panther, 7.705/7.954 per second.

Whiplash, 5.303 per second.

Rapier, 4.015 per second.

Goliath, 132.272 per second.

Now let's look at the intakes...

Adjustable ramp intake, 10 m/s.

Adjustable ramp intake (radial), 10 m/s.

Circular intake, 15 m/s.

Nacelle, 40 m/s.

Precooler, 30 m/s.

Mk1 Diverterless Supersonic Intake, 12 m/s.

Shock cone intake, 5 m/s.

Small circular intake, 15 m/s.

XM-G50 radial intake, 15 m/s.

So the Wheesley needs more air than all the other jets combined except the Goliath which has its own intake, the Wheesley's air needs are not met by the static airspeed of most of the intakes, with only the precooler and nacelle providing enough air to run the wheesley at a standstill, such as in your tests above.

So I suggest you add more intakes or use a nacelle or precooler per wheesley, or try moving forwards rather than static testing, because you aren't giving your engines enough air and they will flame out when testing under this condition

Edited November 13, 2015 by sal_vager

[selfish_meme]

Sorry if this sounds bad but if you check the intake air requirement of the Wheesley you'll see it takes a max of 29.601 per second, and its description says it's a high bypass turbofan so it needs a lot of air in to chuck out the back end.

Lets compare that intake air requirement to the other jets...

Juno, 1.402 per second.

Panther, 7.705/7.954 per second.

Whiplash, 5.303 per second.

Rapier, 4.015 per second.

Goliath, 132.272 per second.

Now let's look at the intakes...

Adjustable ramp intake, 10 m/s.

Adjustable ramp intake (radial), 10 m/s.

Circular intake, 15 m/s.

Nacelle, 40 m/s.

Precooler, 30 m/s.

Mk1 Diverterless Supersonic Intake, 12 m/s.

Shock cone intake, 5 m/s.

Small circular intake, 15 m/s.

XM-G50 radial intake, 15 m/s.

So the Wheesley needs more air than all the other jets combined except the Goliath which has its own intake, the Wheesley's air needs are not met by the static airspeed of most of the intakes, with only the precooler and nacelle providing enough air to run the wheesley at a standstill, such as in your tests above.

So I suggest you add more intakes or use a nacelle or precooler per wheesley, or try moving forwards rather than static testing, because you aren't giving your engines enough air and they will flame out when testing under this condition

Thanks, sal, it make sense, I haven't had time to sit down and work it all out, it is all new and I have not got it straigjt in my head yet to do things differently. I have been trying to get old craft working again and some don't look like they are going to make it. Cheers.

[Azimech]

Thanks! This list should be a sticky!