New jet parts - 1.0.5

[technion]

Hi,

I'm looking at some of these new jet parts, and I'm wondering if they make it feasible to build a small jet early on in career mode, suitable for clearing a bunch of those early Kerbin contracts? If I grab that node with the Juno, will I regret it? I know someone's always been able to show me an entry tier jet, but I never felt you had enough parts to actually make practical use of in early career in pre-1.0.5.

Edited November 14, 2015 by technion

[Streetwind]

You're not going too break the sound barrier with the Juno in any practical fashion, but you can build a little plane cruising at 300 m/s halfway around the planet just fine.

If that's too slow for you, then you'll have to wait for the Panther, I'm afraid.

[technion]

I can deal with waiting if I can hit 2,3 of those targets in one flight

[Wanderfound]

Very doable; I've been Juno-ing exploration and part-test contracts for early game cash. Toss a few radial rockets (Thuds etc.) on there and you can boost up to suborbital, too.

Junos make very nice seaplane engines as well; they're easy to mount up above the splash zone.

[ForScience6686]

I think they were much needed for early career, now survey contracts on kerbin are much more doable. Granted your flight time will be long. But I do like this addition, just need to keep your drag low.

[Kelderek]

I used them as an early way to have a rover - powered rover wheels come a bit later in the tree - it was useful for gathering KSC science or for simple hops to nearby biomes.

[Snark]

The Juno is a great addition to the game. It won't be taking you to space, but it's perfect for early exploration with low altitude planes. Very efficient, you can cruise long distances with minimal fuel.

I found it particularly useful for some early contracts that wanted me to take crew reports on Kerbin in flight above 18 km or so. I built a little plane that has a 2t LFO tank with Terrier on the center stack, with a couple of side-mounted Junos. The Junos fly the plane efficiently to near the target zone, at an altitude of around 8 km, then I point the nose at the sky and light up the Terrier to hit the designated altitude. (8 km may not sound like a lot, but it's high enough that the Terrier gets pretty good ISP.)

And +1 to using it to power an early rover. It's good for making the rounds of the KSC biomes; if you can grab a crew report + EVA + goo + materials bay for each KSC building, that easily pays for the investment of unlocking the Juno.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Snark

[Batmanpuncher]

I built this small aircraft with only up to 3rd tier parts. It can cruise stable at 200m/s and fly up to 8000m before stalling. This uses 2 Junos.

[mabarry3]

I started a new career for 1.0.5 but I can't for the life of me seem to be able to make a tier 3 plane that can go below 85 m/s landing velocity. I can fly around just fine, and be completely stable up to a pretty decent speed, but landing is what is killing me, and I kind of prefer to keep the kerbal.The gear is rotated fine, so that speed is okay for landing on perfectly flat surfaces, aka the area around ksp. But, if there's the slightest bit of an incline or hill it just refuses to land since it either smacks the ground too hard with too high of a vertical speed since I can't properly kill my speed on the way down, or it lands and then immediately flips due to the incline. Here's the plane/landing speed:

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I'm not sure if it's FAR-related as I did just install it to play around with it on a save file I wasn't too concerned about, but I have my doubts that it would make me basically be unable to land anywhere except KSP. I will probably delete it and try again and see what happens. Anyway, if anyone has some suggestions, or I'm just being dumb and forgetting basic aerodynamics (I feel like I should have the wings farther forward for a better pivot point about the CoM, but I'm already pretty close to having my CoM on top of/behind my CoL and, as fuel is used, that will end up happening without some manual fuel shifting, so I am unsure of where my problem lies), I'd love to hear it.

[Snark]

I started a new career for 1.0.5 but I can't for the life of me seem to be able to make a tier 3 plane that can go below 85 m/s landing velocity. I can fly around just fine, and be completely stable up to a pretty decent speed, but landing is what is killing me, and I kind of prefer to keep the kerbal.The gear is rotated fine, so that speed is okay for landing on perfectly flat surfaces, aka the area around ksp. But, if there's the slightest bit of an incline or hill it just refuses to land since it either smacks the ground too hard with too high of a vertical speed since I can't properly kill my speed on the way down, or it lands and then immediately flips due to the incline. Here's the plane/landing speed:

http://imgur.com/a/lkUQp

I'm not sure if it's FAR-related as I did just install it to play around with it on a save file I wasn't too concerned about, but I have my doubts that it would make me basically be unable to land anywhere except KSP. I will probably delete it and try again and see what happens. Anyway, if anyone has some suggestions, or I'm just being dumb and forgetting basic aerodynamics (I feel like I should have the wings farther forward for a better pivot point about the CoM, but I'm already pretty close to having my CoM on top of/behind my CoL and, as fuel is used, that will end up happening without some manual fuel shifting, so I am unsure of where my problem lies), I'd love to hear it.

First things first, FAR. I've never used it, but from what I understand, it completely rejiggers aerodynamics. So you may want to post to that mod's forum thread; any non-FAR advice has a high likelihood of being moot.

That said, in stock aero, your plane looks pretty reasonable. I would think you could go under 85 m/s on landing, though not a lot slower; it's not really built as a glider. How's your landing technique? Are you flaring just before touchdown?

Other than landing technique, all I could suggest would be to either lower your mass (such as lowering the amount of fuel carried, Junos really don't need much) or increase wing surface. You also may want to consider increasing your brake torque in the SPH (it's pretty low by default).

[GoSlash27]

Technion,

You definitely want that tech node! Run, do not walk to click on that node.

Not just because you can build a plane and study other biomes, but more importantly you can build a jet powered science car and collect the science from all the biomes at KSC. You can get like 15 science per area at KSC for materials study, goo observation, crew report, and EVA report.

There's 10 biomes on KSC grounds you can just roll up to and collect science with very little time and effort, so that 45 science investment will pay back 150 science points pretty much instantly.

5th Horseman demonstrating:

Best,

-Slashy

Edited November 15, 2015 by GoSlash27

[mabarry3]

[quote name='Snark']First things first, FAR. I've never used it, but from what I understand, it completely rejiggers aerodynamics. So you may want to post to that mod's forum thread; any non-FAR advice has a high likelihood of being moot.

That said, in stock aero, your plane looks pretty reasonable. I would think you could go under 85 m/s on landing, though not a lot slower; it's not really built as a glider. How's your landing technique? Are you flaring just before touchdown?

Other than landing technique, all I could suggest would be to either lower your mass (such as lowering the amount of fuel carried, Junos really don't need much) or increase wing surface. You also may want to consider increasing your brake torque in the SPH (it's pretty low by default).[/QUOTE]

Hmm, well I didn't think that FAR would change it so drastically. I haven't had a chance today but I'll delete it and try again.

I flare up to kill as much speed as possible before landing but as soon as I flare up, the plane seems to react by almost immediately going skyward if my velocity is high enough. It only stops doing that around 95 m/s where I can properly flare up while still maintaining a small negative vertical velocity. But that still seems to be too high to land on an incline or hill.

Next, how exactly do you get more wing area? Do you just slap more wings on for a larger wingspan? I have never tried having more than one wing on the plane so just curious what a plane with more wing area would look like if I only have access to the swept wing and some structural wings.

[Wanderfound]

[quote name='mabarry3']Next, how exactly do you get more wing area? Do you just slap more wings on for a larger wingspan? I have never tried having more than one wing on the plane so just curious what a plane with more wing area would look like if I only have access to the swept wing and some structural wings.[/QUOTE]

Most of the wing pieces are modular; just attach 'em to each other if you want bigger wings.

[URL="http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/craigmotbey/media/Kerbal/Beta/Kerbodyne%20Showroom/Titan%208/screenshot372_zpsd7dfd71e.jpg.html"][IMG]http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah120/craigmotbey/Kerbal/Beta/Kerbodyne%20Showroom/Titan%208/screenshot372_zpsd7dfd71e.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[legoclone09]

I modified the Velociteze so it uses the biplane landing gear, a modified tail section, and no ladder. It still flies great, though.

[technion]

[quote name='GoSlash27']Technion,
[U][B]You definitely want that tech node! [/B][/U]Run, do not walk to click on that node.Best,
-Slashy[/QUOTE]

Wow.. now that is awesome. I think I'll be all over that.

[Val]

If anyones's interested I made this Science and Exploration craft, inspired by mabarry3's design on the previous page.

It's great at short takeoff and landing and cruises at 250 m/s.

[URL="http://kerbalx.com/crafts/7307"][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/YvszlO0.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL="http://kerbalx.com/crafts/7307"]Craft link[/URL]